Damned (Neutral Chaos) (Poll Added)

[MafiaMenace]

You have to predict when someone dies, how is that easy in any way cupcake?

I personally would love to see this role in-game, it's well balanced and would be fun to play as.
Very well-made.

/support

[Mystoc]

You have to predict when someone dies, how is that easy in any way cupcake?

I personally would love to see this role in-game, it's well balanced and would be fun to play as.
Very well-made.

/support

this is very hard to balance a game lasts 6-7 days so on average you need to guess correctly 50% of the nights to win

yes it gets eaiser to guess right the less people there are but i dont think getting three souls will be that ez even then

if town/mafia fears you getting your last soul they can just hang people to deny you souls

this role is by no means ez to win at 3 but i think it would have to be tested in TG for me to sure

changing the amount of souls from 3 to 4 is an ez thing to so theres no rush i want to here other people thoughts on this for though

[Mystoc]

Bump

[cob709]

This seems like a fun chaos role, predicting the next person that dies is gonna be interesting.
Though I feel like there are a few problems:

- Its ability to stop players from voting is extremely powerful, I feel like it would be better if it was simply changed to being BM'd, or perhaps rework the first drain, the second and third drain are fine though
- Being alive after it has already won is boring, as there is no incentive to stay active.
- It should be able to be targeted after reviving, as they are never able to be hung, town has no reliable way of eliminating them when they need to

but i do agree that this role seems fun to play as, but too difficult to fight against
overall, it some tweaks and nerfs but i like this role
/support

[Mystoc]

This seems like a fun chaos role, predicting the next person that dies is gonna be interesting.
Though I feel like there are a few problems:
- Its ability to stop players from voting is extremely powerful, I feel like it would be better if it was simply changed to being BM'd, or perhaps rework the first drain, the second and third drain are fine though

this witnessing a death is inhertily town sided since evils are much more likely to witness a death, so the penalty needs to be evil sided for it to be fair since they will be exposed too death the most, hence why the first penalty i just cant vote evils can still kill

- Being alive after it has already won is boring, as there is no incentive to stay active.

this is true and not true exe is already like this and they can have fun i have had games where people know im the deciding vote I feel like since the role starts of dead they deserve the chance to be alive when the game ends I think its even more boring staying dead unable to talk with others expect the dead

I will consider taking away the ability to vote when alive but I think being able to revive from death is such a cool concept if this role just left the game you wouldnt feel the impact of that


- It should be able to be targeted after reviving, as they are never able to be hung, town has no reliable way of eliminating them when they need to

I disagree them be able to die goes against the whole point of a role thats won already and its whole goal is to live again,

Even with games with surv late game neither side as the luxary to waste a hang on role thats already won so i guess my point is even they can hang it why would they be even want its a waste hang when theres still real enemies out there

if this role votes against them that means the other side has majority to vote who it wants, why would it matter if the role side with a side they cant vote the other side up just ignore the role and hang / the killers

I think I might to take away its ability to vote though

but i do agree that this role seems fun to play as, but too difficult to fight against

its also hard to win though has the role, you fight against the role by not making it obv who will die, this role doesnt count hangings only deaths at night theres is counters to it

overall, it some tweaks and nerfs but i like this role
/support

Thanks

[ABadWord]

I'm a big old fan of roles with unique capabilities and goals. Needing to predict who dies is a fun idea for a goal. My only concern is if this role would mess with the voting process as there would already be a vote down.
But I guess that would be determined in the testing grounds when they come back never. dangit

/support

[Mystoc]

I'm a big old fan of roles with unique capabilities and goals. Needing to predict who dies is a fun idea for a goal. My only concern is if this role would mess with the voting process as there would already be a vote down.
But I guess that would be determined in the testing grounds when they come back never. dangit

/support

Thanks while not voting is better then just dying
the people who dont vote arent counted as part of the voting majority so for each person who cant vote one less vote is needed to vote someone up for trial

[ABadWord]

Thanks while not voting is better then just dying
the people who dont vote arent counted as part of the voting majority so for each person who cant vote one less vote is needed to vote someone up for trial

I meant that one person would be dead straight up as soon as the game begins, not the drain effect of the damned. Even though its a neutral dying it would be like a disconnect essentially at the start, meaning the mafia/coven would be a step closer to majority. Will this have major impact, probably not, but still a concern.

Also upon reflection wouldn't this role sell out any evils that get there victims drained. It's more likely for the vote less people to be evils then towns, so it would function like a list of people to hang. Any role that takes away right to vote is tricky, even if it's a punishment for failing to outmaneuver another player, it's just plain unfun to sit there during the day. (also theres the issue of do they get a guilty/inno vote I assume not but some other roles allow that so ehhhhhh)

[Mystoc]

I meant that one person would be dead straight up as soon as the game begins, not the drain effect of the damned. Even though its a neutral dying it would be like a disconnect essentially at the start, meaning the mafia/coven would be a step closer to majority. Will this have major impact, probably not, but still a concern.

Also upon reflection wouldn't this role sell out any evils that get there victims drained. It's more likely for the vote less people to be evils then towns, so it would function like a list of people to hang. Any role that takes away right to vote is tricky, even if it's a punishment for failing to outmaneuver another player, it's just plain unfun to sit there during the day. (also theres the issue of do they get a guilty/inno vote I assume not but some other roles allow that so ehhhhhh)

NC kinda has to be in custom or unranked because the rolelist has to change to make room for them so this could maybe be reworked NE but i dont like it cause NE cant kill, it fits Best as NC

the problem is the first penalty needs to be more harmful to town then evils

i mean are killing evils more likely to be able to get drained sure they are but that doesnt mean town cant also be drained too the same night
you can say it hurts evils too but towns main weapon is voting so i feel it hurts town more
also to your point not being able to vote is unfun i argue being dead and not being able to talk or use abiltities is even worse so unfun is subjective you can still talk and share ideas

your last point about it not being a thing yet a role who denies voting doesn't mean there cant be, i dont like the line of thinking because it just stagnates creativity

I dont like the idea of using votes to metagame and see who got drained each night i did not consider that,

i think i might have change the first penalty, i thought about making it so only town cant vote but thats unfair as well hmm

what about abilties be disabled for non killing roles as the first drained penalty i view it lore wise they are so tired from being drianed they cant be active at night have to sleep

[ABadWord]

If you take their ability to kill then a NK or solo maf/coven are essentially dead. Only hope is sheeping town so hard that they get into a one v one.

However if it just made it so they lost the ability for a night acting like a Roleblock, then that should be fine. The basic attack might wanna be changed to unstoppable. I doubt you could predict a SK's victim three times so the basic attack would only punish predictable Mafiosos. If of course this role is to punish being to predictable as an evil.

Also, I never stated that it could never be part of a role to take away a players vote, just that it is an effect that must be used sparingly and carefully. The ease of applying the effect of this means that you could mark 3 evils as evils when you win, which would be a bit to harsh for messing up once or the Damned just guessing lucky. You could do 1 drain is RB for a night, 2 is voteless, 3 is unstoppable attack. Or just have RB, basic attk, unstop attk.

[Mystoc]

If you take their ability to kill then a NK or solo maf/coven are essentially dead. Only hope is sheeping town so hard that they get into a one v one.

I did say all non killing abilties disabled so killers can still can same for town roles who can kill

However if it just made it so they lost the ability for a night acting like a Roleblock, then that should be fine. The basic attack might wanna be changed to unstoppable. I doubt you could predict a SK's victim three times so the basic attack would only punish predictable Mafiosos. If of course this role is to punish being to predictable as an evil.

for a night is too little if not permanent then 2-3 nights of no abilty, but i feel like if it isnt permanent then i feel like it barely affects town at all

Also, I never stated that it could never be part of a role to take away a players vote, just that it is an effect that must be used sparingly and carefully. The ease of applying the effect of this means that you could mark 3 evils as evils when you win, which would be a bit to harsh for messing up once or the Damned just guessing lucky. You could do 1 drain is RB for a night, 2 is voteless, 3 is unstoppable attack. Or just have RB, basic attk, unstop attk.

are u saying make the rb and not voting permanent? I do like that last drained is death for everyone but the 2 penalties before the one is the ones im still not sure about

[ABadWord]

I did say all non killing abilties disabled so killers can still can same for town roles who can kill

So the roleblock is to affect towns and maybe a Janitor/Forger? Then how does it punish predictable killing. Or am I misinterpreting the roles function?

for a night is too little if not permanent then 2-3 nights of no abilty, but i feel like if it isnt permanent then i feel like it barely affects town at all

This role isn't really built around punishing towns, I'm confused as to why you want it to. It's built around punishing evils, and a kill-less night for a Mafia or NK is a shot to the foot like no other, especially when you get no info at all. If this is a role to punish Town then it would be a NE, not a NC, and would need different mechanics.

are u saying make the rb and not voting permanent? I do like that last drained is death for everyone but the 2 penalties before the one is the ones I'm still not sure about

I would say that the punishments should be one of two things.

Option 1
Drain 1: RB for a night
Drain 2: Voteless
Drain3: Dead, via Unstoppable attack

Option 2
Drain 1: RB for a night
Drain 2: Dead.

Low chance to predict 3 kills from one boy means that option 2 would result in more dead. Option 1 would result in the sellout issue of "That guy has no vote guilty" but slightly less severe for players.

[Mystoc]

So the roleblock is to affect towns and maybe a Janitor/Forger? Then how does it punish predictable killing. Or am I misinterpreting the roles function?

well the idea was NK isnt punished until the final penalty while mafia roles are punished on the second penalty and town are punished on first penalty

that what i want to happen penalty geared towards punished town then faction then NK

This role isn't really built around punishing towns, I'm confused as to why you want it to. It's built around punishing evils, and a kill-less night for a Mafia or NK is a shot to the foot like no other, especially when you get no info at all. If this is a role to punish Town then it would be a NE, not a NC, and would need different mechanics.

thats exaclty why the first penalty needs to punish town more, its not a punish town or evil role the idea of the role
the idea it punishes equally so no one wants to help it win

this role is going to punish all others if it wins no one wants the role to win, this role is ment to have no allies if they did winning would be to easy cause town could just announce who they will exe with jailor each day for free wins

would say that the punishments should be one of two things.

Option 1
Drain 1: RB for a night
Drain 2: Voteless
Drain3: Dead, via Unstoppable attack

Option 2
Drain 1: RB for a night
Drain 2: Dead.

Low chance to predict 3 kills from one boy means that option 2 would result in more dead. Option 1 would result in the sellout issue of "That guy has no vote guilty" but slightly less severe for players.

I think there is a misunderstanding the penalties dont happen until this role wins not the night they get the penalties, so if this role never wins none of these penalties ever happen, so I dont think there would be issue of signaling out evils who lose votes because alot people will lose votes all at once there wont be an outlier

I do think like option one better im waiting to edit this because im applying to be trusted user so i can user spoilers again otherwise this whole format gets messed up

[ABadWord]

I am aware that the drain effects happen when the Damned wins, however there are not that many town roles that can actually be affected by drain. It would be safe to say that the 3 boys without votes are evils, especially if any claim a TP or non-visiting role.
TP cant unless you visit someone who dies to BG or Crus(?)
Non-visit roles like Med or Reti cant be drained.
Jailor can't be drained, Mayor can't be drained.
Yet ever Mafia role can be drained, hell Janitor and Forger would be drained as well as the Mafioso.
NK's will be drained and hey already have like NO voting power, so if the Damned wins right as its a 1v1 between sk and a Medium the votes needed to hang would be 1 and the serial killer loses to a Medium because of 1 mistake.
Coven roles get kicked like doges except poisoner. Specially after Necro.
So what town roles would get drained?
-Invest
-Sheriff
-Spy
-LO
-Vigi
-Vet (chances low, Damned would most likely be lucky)
-Trans
-Crus (same issue as vet, hard to predict who will visit a man defended by a Crus)
-VH
That's not a long list. If you want a role that punishes town for visiting in predictable manners, then you would need an entirely new role, this one is an anti-killing NC role, and evils are the vast majority of killing roles.
Although a role that could ensnare town members and make them lose there votes or be RB'd could prove to be a damn fun NK.
In any event this role seems fine in its current state.

[Mystoc]

I am aware that the drain effects happen when the Damned wins, however there are not that many town roles that can actually be affected by drain. It would be safe to say that the 3 boys without votes are evils, especially if any claim a TP or non-visiting role.
TP cant unless you visit someone who dies to BG or Crus(?)
Non-visit roles like Med or Reti cant be drained.
Jailor can't be drained, Mayor can't be drained.
Yet ever Mafia role can be drained, hell Janitor and Forger would be drained as well as the Mafioso.
NK's will be drained and hey already have like NO voting power, so if the Damned wins right as its a 1v1 between sk and a Medium the votes needed to hang would be 1 and the serial killer loses to a Medium because of 1 mistake.
Coven roles get kicked like doges except poisoner. Specially after Necro.
So what town roles would get drained?
-Invest
-Sheriff
-Spy
-LO
-Vigi
-Vet (chances low, Damned would most likely be lucky)
-Trans
-Crus (same issue as vet, hard to predict who will visit a man defended by a Crus)
-VH
That's not a long list. If you want a role that punishes town for visiting in predictable manners, then you would need an entirely new role, this one is an anti-killing NC role, and evils are the vast majority of killing roles.
Although a role that could ensnare town members and make them lose there votes or be RB'd could prove to be a damn fun NK.
In any event this role seems fine in its current state.

i mean town can kill also it isnt garenteed all the damned progress is all from mafia kills most times it would be 1-2 mafia i think and that might be on the same person not spread out

you bring its hard to predict alot with crusader and vet but thats all whole idea of the role

also jailor doenst visit exaclty like vet but does cause kills so he can get drained
doesn't ret visit now? it got reworked to use dead bodies like necromancer

the ones who cant get it are mayor which is fair it would be OP if he lost votes

doc can get it from asro or WW or exe from jailor (yea they also die with WW unless healed)
BG just dies unless healed by doc (so most times cant get it)
trapper can get if he sets the trap the night someone dies

really the only roles who cant ever get it are meduim mayor and psychic, medium and mayor TS so its less likely both in a game

your right that town is slightly favored since they have 3 non visiting roles but not being able to vote hurts town more cause they have less ways to kill at night,

still debating the exact changes but your feedback as been very helpful thanks