Bounty Hunter: Town Killing

[TheVinylKnight]

I have finally succumbed to the wishes of those of you here in the Role Ideas forum. I am now suggesting my Bounty Hunter role as a simple, normal, Town member. Please forgive me for making it in a new thread. My old Town Contingent thread should be allowed to die, and I had the original BH thread locked when I started the TC thread, so here we are.

PROPOSED REVISION:
Spoiler: Role Name:
Bounty Hunter

Alignment:
Town Support

Abilities:
You have two abilities:
Night: Choose a player to follow. Depending on what happens with that player during the night, you will receive one of three messages. It is possible to receive more than one message.

"<TARGET> went for an evening stroll. They visited another player."
- You will receive this message when your target visits someone.

"You saw someone slip into <TARGET>'s house. They were visited by another player."
- You will receive this message when someone visits your target.

"All was quiet last night. <TARGET> stayed home."
- You will receive this message if your target stays home and is not visited.

Day: You may choose to jail your target from the previous night.
- At the beginning of the night, your target will receive a message stating that they are jailed by the Bounty Hunter. Your prisoner will be jailed continuously until one of you dies or you choose to release your prisoner.
- Unlike the Jailor, you cannot execute your prisoner.
- You cannot use your night ability to follow another player while you have someone jailed.
- Using your day ability again will release your prisoner. You cannot follow someone the night you release your prisoner.
- You cannot jail a revealed Mayor. Likewise, if your prisoner is an unrevealed Mayor and (s)he chooses to reveal, you will release them automatically.
- If you release a jailed Serial Killer or Werewolf (on a Full-Moon night), you will be attacked by them.

Special Attributes:
Unique

Goal:
Lynch every criminal and evil-doer.

Wins With:
Town, Survivors.

Special Interaction with the Jailor:
- The Jailor always has priority over you.
- If you have a player jailed and the Jailor targets them, the Jailor will be able to interrogate the target privately. You will not participate in or be able to see the conversation. You will receive a message that the Jailor is interrogating your prisoner. The Jailor will receive a message that the Bounty Hunter had already brought the target to the jail.
- In the above situation, if the Jailor chooses not to execute a prisoner who would ordinarily attack the Jailor, the Jailor will not be attacked. The prisoner is still jailed by you. You will be attacked if you release the prisoner.
- If you and the Jailor both choose to jail the same target on the same day, the Jailor will jail the target. You will receive the standard message stating your ability failed because your target was jailed. To jail your target, you will have to use your day ability the next day.

CURRENT VERSION:
Spoiler: Role Name:
Bounty Hunter

Alignment:
Town Killing

Abilities:
You have two abilities:
Night: Choose a player to follow. Depending on what happens with that player during the night, you will receive one of the four messages. You will only receive one message, even if two or more are suitable for the night.

"You witnessed an attack last night, but was <TARGET> the culprit or the victim?"
- You will receive this message if your target attacks someone, or is attacked by someone. It doesn't matter whether either party dies.

"<TARGET> went for an evening stroll. Not much happened though."
- You will receive this message when your target visits someone, but not when there is an attack.

"You saw someone slip into <TARGET>'s house, but you couldn't see what happened."
- You will receive this message when someone visits your target and your target doesn't visit anyone, unless your target is attacked.

"All was quiet last night. <TARGET> stayed home."
- You will receive this message if your target stays home and is not visited.

Day: If you witnessed an attack (the first message), you may choose to execute your target. You can only use make this attack during the Discussion Phase of the day, and will be publicly revealed as the Bounty Hunter when you do.
- Your execution is a Basic Attack. If your target had Basic Defence or better during the previous night your attack will fail, even if that defence would have ended.
- Your attack will be announced to the Town, even if it fails.
- You can only make two executions.
- If you execute a Town member, you will be auto-lynched (all players will vote you to trial, and will vote guilty.)


Special Attributes:
Unique

Goal:
Lynch every criminal and evil-doer.

Wins With:
Town, Survivors.

Additional Information:
This would (currently) be the only role to be able to kill during the day. I kind of like that idea, but I feel like nobody else will. If that is the case, as I expect it will be, I'm open to changing it. I do have an idea how this role would be reworked if daykills are unacceptable.

[Mystoc]

You will only receive one message, even if two or more are suitable for the night. They are in the order of priority for which message you will receive.

that is RNG and not allowed there needs to be clear order the messages are shown in if only one is ever shown

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so you basically know if you target was at a murder scene - if your target is immune they could of been attacked i guess and not die(but if they were murdered you will know next day they weren't the attacker since they are dead)

or

if they were visited (do you count has a visitor?)

or

stayed home

or

left house

and then have the option to choose to kill them?



so it can kill night immunes if they die by hanging quite strong

i feel like this should only be a basic attack but that isn't possible if the person is killed through hanging




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this is actually quite balanced, (besides killing night immunes mayybe it can be allowed

if the person claims non visiting role and leaves house you know to kill them cause they lied

if the person is at murder scene and isnt dead themselves you should prolly kill them

if person stays home or just leaves and isnt at murder scene you should prolly not kill

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suggestion time you should only be able to kill someone if they are at murder scene i think otherwise this is just a better vig with one less bullet

right now its a vig with some TI like abilities that can kill night immunes with one less bullet

edit : i would get rid this hanging thing and change it so its ability takes two night to do

first night observe next night choose if you want to kill, and make so night immunes are immune this,

it's more balanced because it takes two nights to kill but can get info and choose not to kill unlike vig

[TheVinylKnight]

You will only receive one message, even if two or more are suitable for the night. They are in the order of priority for which message you will receive.

that is RNG and not allowed there needs to be clear order the messages are shown in if only one is ever shown

No RNG here. You get the message closest to the top of the list. So if your target visits someone, and someone visits your target, but neither is an attack, you'll only get the second message saying your target was out for the night. You won't know that someone was visiting your target.

so it can kill night immunes if they die by hanging quite strong

i feel like this should only be a basic attack but that isn't possible if the person is killed through hanging

They lynching part is the penalty for if you kill a Townie. You actually do attack your target directly. Making it a basic attack is a good idea. I hadn't specified that, but I will now.

this is actually quite balanced, (besides killing night immunes mayybe it can be allowed

if the person claims non visiting role and leaves house you know to kill them cause they lied

if the person is at murder scene and isnt dead themselves you should prolly kill them

if person stays home or just leaves and isnt at murder scene you should prolly not kill

That's pretty much how it works. I'm glad you like it.

suggestion time you should only be able to kill someone if they are at murder scene i think otherwise this is just a better vig with one less bullet

right now its a vig with some TI like abilities that can kill night immunes with one less bullet

Hmm... can't kill without witness a murder. Good call. It fits better and makes it tougher to work in the early game.

edit : i would get rid this hanging thing and change it so its ability takes two night to do

first night observe next night choose if you want to kill, and make so night immunes are immune this,

it's more balanced because it takes two nights to kill but can get info and choose not to kill

Making it take two nights is the idea I had in mind for how to remove the daytime killing. As I say above though, the lynching part is the penalty if you kill a Townie.

[Mystoc]

vig has same penalty though they die if they kill town is really isn't a downside it's just parity with vig so the role isn't OP compared to vig

since this has sorta Ti like abilities it should not kill night immunes and take two and days and one less kill to balance out

you should still die of guilt if you kill townie though either way

edit this role has a lot promise there needs to a clear order the messages are shown in it can't be random i will look at this role again tomorrow i need to get bed its late here!

[TheVinylKnight]

The penalty is actually worse than the Vigilante's because it costs Town the opportunity to lynch someone during the day.

I've made those changes now. The attack is a basic attack, though it is still during the day. Night Immunity (Defence) or any level will prevent the attack from working. I've also clarified the message you receive from the night ability to make it easy to understand which message you'll get.

[TheVinylKnight]

Boba Fett as a skin would be cool, but that's beyond my control. I'm glad you like the role though.

[CharaGaming]

- If you execute a Town member, you will be auto-lynched (all players will vote you to trial, and will vote guilty.)

Uh.. I don't like the idea of that. What if the SK has been fully confirmed as SK, and the Bounty Hunter decides to kill his target? hum.. that would just be annoying, don't you think? I think yeah, sure, it should have a backfire thing but not like that you know?

[HereThereEverywhere]

Serial Killer isn't a

Town member

They're Neutral Killing.

[TheVinylKnight]

- If you execute a Town member, you will be auto-lynched (all players will vote you to trial, and will vote guilty.)

Uh.. I don't like the idea of that. What if the SK has been fully confirmed as SK, and the Bounty Hunter decides to kill his target? hum.. that would just be annoying, don't you think? I think yeah, sure, it should have a backfire thing but not like that you know?

Does HereThereEverywhere's response to your concern clear things up for you, or does your concern still stand?

[CharaGaming]

Serial Killer isn't a

Town member

They're Neutral Killing.

You either misunderstood or my grammar failed me once again.
Let me try this again.
If the town has found the SK the night the Bounty Hunter's target kills someone and the Bounty Hunter decides to kill, but the target is actually a town of some sort the town wouldn't have a town to lynch the SK that day only the Bounty Hunter.
If I made another mistake please tell me and I'll re-word again.

[HereThereEverywhere]

That means you have to be more careful, or you're giving SK a free day.
Though I do disagree with that punishment, nothing should mess with voting that way imo.

[TheVinylKnight]

Serial Killer isn't a

Town member

They're Neutral Killing.

You either misunderstood or my grammar failed me once again.
Let me try this again.
If the town has found the SK the night the Bounty Hunter's target kills someone and the Bounty Hunter decides to kill, but the target is actually a town of some sort the town wouldn't have a town to lynch the SK that day only the Bounty Hunter.
If I made another mistake please tell me and I'll re-word again.

So let me see if I've got this right then.

The Town is convinced that John Willard is the Serial Killer, so the Bounty Hunter decides to follow him that night.
The next day, Abigail Hobbs is found dead, murdered by the Serial Killer. The Bounty Hunter chooses to kill his target.
John Willard is now dead, but then his role is revealed as actually being the Doctor.
Town then Auto-Lynches the Bounty Hunter, losing the opportunity to lynch the real Serial Killer.

Is that how the scenario looks in your mind? And if so, is losing the opportunity to lynch for the day what you don't like?


EDIT:

That means you have to be more careful, or you're giving SK a free day.
Though I do disagree with that punishment, nothing should mess with voting that way imo.

I figured the punishment should be somehow worse than the Vig, since the BH gets clues about who to kill and who not to. Losing the lynch was the best way I could think to do that.

[HereThereEverywhere]

They mean if someone finds the SK and the BH decides to kill their target who turns out to be Town, so instead of lynching SK they get the BH. I still don't like that mechanic, and seeing as this is TK I feel like it's too OP, most roles that are killing are evil so it wont be making mistakes very often because really only Jailor and Vigi would be targets for this.

[TheVinylKnight]

They mean if someone finds the SK and the BH decides to kill their target who turns out to be Town, so instead of lynching SK they get the BH. I still don't like that mechanic, and seeing as this is TK I feel like it's too OP, most roles that are killing are evil so it wont be making mistakes very often because really only Jailor and Vigi would be targets for this.

Hmm... I will have to consider that. Thank you for pointing that out.

[TheVinylKnight]

So, I'm trying to find a way to make the role less OP. I want to remove the auto-lynch penalty, but then if I replace it with Death Guilt similar to the Vigilante, this role is strictly better than Vig. That's a big no. Can't do that. I can make that change, but it needs to be weakened further.

Also, there's the problem H.T.E. pointed out wherein the Bounty Hunter will very rarely misfire. I can make it easier to misfire by playing around with the messages, but then the role becomes a complicated mess.

A thought: What if the role can't kill, but instead acts as a locked-on role-blocker? From Wikipedia:

A bounty hunter (sometimes called a bounty killer) is a person who captures fugitives and criminals for a monetary reward (bounty). The occupation, also known as bail enforcement agent, bail agent, recovery agent, bail recovery agent, or fugitive recovery agent, has historically existed in many parts of the world, however today it is found almost exclusively in parts of the United States and the Philippines,[1] its former commonwealth, as the practice is illegal under the laws of most other countries.

So maybe the Bounty Hunter, rather than choosing to execute a target, puts them on lockdown. Either giving them a "you were hauled off to jail" message every night after the BH uses his day ability on a target, giving a new unique message for a long-term role block. "Someone is following you, keeping a close eye on you. You are role-blocked." Obviously, this would mean BH can't be Town Killing. Support, maybe?


Edit: Here's a potential updated rolecard using the role-block idea to replace killing:
Spoiler: Role Name:
Bounty Hunter

Alignment:
Town Support

Abilities:
You have two abilities:

Day: Choose a player to follow.
At the start of the night, that player will receive the message "You feel like you are being followed."
Depending on what happens with that player during the night, you will receive one of the four messages. You will only receive one message, even if two or more are suitable for the night.

"You witnessed an attack last night, but was <TARGET> the culprit or the victim?"
- You will receive this message if your target attacks someone, or is attacked by someone. It doesn't matter whether either party dies.

"<TARGET> went for an evening stroll. Not much happened though."
- You will receive this message when your target visits someone, but not when there is an attack.

"You saw someone slip into <TARGET>'s house, but you couldn't see what happened."
- You will receive this message when someone visits your target and your target doesn't visit anyone, unless your target is attacked.

"All was quiet last night. <TARGET> stayed home."
- You will receive this message if your target stays home and is not visited.

Night: You may choose to put the player into lockdown.
When you have a player in lockdown, you cannot use any of your abilities. That player will be role-blocked each night until one of you dies, or the game ends. If you are role-blocked, the player you have in lockdown will be free to act that night.

Special Attributes:
Unique

Goal:
Lynch every criminal and evil-doer.

Wins With:
Town, Survivors.

[kookeekwisp]

This is more of an Investigative role akin to Lookout, and i like the result.
But there's a reason Town can execute during the day. Bounty hunters do like to stakeout their target's houses, but they don't KILL their target, nor can they jail their targets on their own. It's everyone's job to make the right decisions & execute the bad guys.
It would be fairly easy to tell who was the killer, since y'know, THE VICTIM WOULD PROBABLY BE DEAD!!!

Instead, it should roleblock it's target only when an attack or maybe hurtful-action occurs. This way, it can help Town if you have good judgement, or vice versa. (TP or TS?)

[TheVinylKnight]

This is more of an Investigative role akin to Lookout, and i like the result.
But there's a reason Town can execute during the day. Bounty hunters do like to stakeout their target's houses, but they don't KILL their target, nor can they jail their targets on their own. It's everyone's job to make the right decisions & execute the bad guys.
It would be fairly easy to tell who was the killer, since y'know, THE VICTIM WOULD PROBABLY BE DEAD!!!

Instead, it should roleblock it's target only when an attack or maybe hurtful-action occurs. This way, it can help Town if you have good judgement, or vice versa. (TP or TS?)

So role-block, but only when the target makes an Attack?

[HereThereEverywhere]

I feel like that's got no real penalties to randomly targeting though, at least Escort does with stopping Townies. That can only stop Vigilante and Jailor on the Town side, and maybe BG/Crusader.

[TheVinylKnight]

I feel like that's got no real penalties to randomly targeting though, at least Escort does with stopping Townies. That can only stop Vigilante and Jailor on the Town side, and maybe BG/Crusader.

I would have to agree with you. Makes it even harder to misfire than before. "Misfire" being not exactly the right term anymore, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

[kookeekwisp]

So role-block, but only when the target makes an Attack?

When an attack happens involving that target, but not indirectly like protection/rampage?
NVM. That would make finding scum too easy.

IDK how to change this role to be good without making a new one entirely. As it stands, it's sortof a weird mishmash of a Killing/Investigative role.
I'd take out anything non-important, like seeing if your target visits, if someone visits them, etc.
And limit your execution time to the next night, preventing insta-confirmed Town & dead scum. (kinda why Town removed deathnotes)

[TheVinylKnight]

Just posted a non-killing revision in the main post. I think it fixes most of the issues that have been mentioned thus far in the thread. Thank you everyone who has help identify problem areas with the role so far.