Revenant (Neutral Killing)

[lemonader666]

>MFW this is a conversion role
/nosupport

[Mystoc]

>MFW this is a conversion role
/nosupport

yep you didn't read the full role figures

GOALS DO NOT CHANGE READ THE ROLE

i even put a disclaimer in my update you clearly didn't read it

it does not convert the term ghost and spectre think of it as status like doused i used the term to save time describing it each time conversion means goals change this does not do that at all

[lemonader666]

>MFW this is a conversion role
/nosupport

yep you didn't read the full role figures

GOALS DO NOT CHANGE READ THE ROLE

i even put a disclaimer in my update you clearly didn't read it

it does not convert the term ghost and spectre think of it as status like doused i used the term to save time describing it each time conversion means goals change this does not do that at all

This takes away the chance of winning from someone COMPLETELY, while killing still give others a chance to win.

[Mystoc]

>MFW this is a conversion role
/nosupport

yep you didn't read the full role figures

GOALS DO NOT CHANGE READ THE ROLE

i even put a disclaimer in my update you clearly didn't read it

it does not convert the term ghost and spectre think of it as status like doused i used the term to save time describing it each time conversion means goals change this does not do that at all

This takes away the chance of winning from someone COMPLETELY, while killing still give others a chance to win.

where does my role state this it does not take away your chance to win you are misinformed or misreading something i would like a quote where this is stated

any more feedback like i said i changed a few things once i get a bit more feedback i will open a poll

[Mystoc]

yea i still want feedback on this

no one seems to comment on any of my role ideas though so i have no clue if they suck or people just don't like reading ideas and only posting them

[TheNightmareFox]

yea i still want feedback on this

no one seems to comment on any of my role ideas though so i have no clue if they suck or people just don't like reading ideas and only posting them

its better then everyone shitting on your roles

[Mystoc]

no people sitting on my roles is very good

if it's legitimate criticism it helps me improve my role a lot

if i think the feedback is wrong i can explain my role to them and then they can understand how the role works or help me understand what i missed

either way it helps the role get better feedback is always good getting no feedback feels horrible

[Mystoc]

well forums are slow today no new roles to give feedback on

so gonna look for more feedback on this role

really any feedback is helpful

[Mystoc]

any last feedback I think role is good will try adding lore and maybe achievements later and then submit this to TG

[Seththeking]

Hurts Mediums and is way to chaotic /Nosuppport

[Mystoc]

this role cant fake medium only see dead chat huge difference

it's not very chaotic all it does is make people think they are alive

[Mystoc]

ok i will respond to your full feedback later but the most common misunderstanding i see in this feedback of yours is that this a conversion role

it isnt u are clearly misunderstanding something to make you think its a conversion role i have a huge disclaimer saying it isn't and you still seem to think it is

what part of the role is making you think this so i can change the wording so it's less confusing because this role is not a conversion role

it just simply isn't tell me what's making you think this?

thanks

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a lot of what you said was hard to make sense of it because it was followed by the f word it made it very hard to see feedback cause half of it was cussing i will try my best to respond to your concerns

you didn't read the section of how each role is fooled cause a lot of the points you made about were about roles figuring out that there action wasn't happening

you seem to think this role kills but it doesnt its only lore wise that it kills people IT CAN NEVER KILL

it has an unique attack because it doesn't kill people i should probably change the wording to unstoppable debuff

it has a powerful defense because it cant kill its basicly a worse asro then can only ignite once everyone is doused

with a powerful defense only jailor and hanging can kill you basicly while you are waiting for everyone to be a ghost or spectre you highly susceptible to being voted up and being hanged thats why it has powerful defense

ret cant rez because it doesn't know if a ghost is evil or town it would break the current rules of town salem (ret cant rez disguise disguised as town)

necro can use the attack of ghosts and spectre because there are still debuffed with the status even when dead. they aren't cleaned its a completely different thing

yea the revenant attack used necro is strong but it can only be used once pestilence is even stronger

it cant target people who ghosts/spectres because it would kill them if he attacked them a second time and that would be OP

this role is nowhere near the power level of pestilence its should not have its own result

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if you were visited by revenant and vested you would be spectre not a ghost because you had a bassic defense that night

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i have added necromancer knowing they are ghost that was good idea

[Mystoc]

been a while since i got feedback on this role, so feedback away pleease

[Seththeking]

This role is like a NK who kills someone without the killed player knowing there dead.
This seems good IMO. however may I suggest an ability: You will know your targets role when you turn them.
This can make up for its weird killing ability.
It can clean, see roles and win if he has targeted all of them.
But it doesn't officially kill someone

[Mystoc]

This role is like a NK who kills someone without the killed player knowing there dead.
This seems good IMO. however may I suggest an ability: You will know your targets role when you turn them.
This can make up for its weird killing ability.
It can clean, see roles and win if he has targeted all of them.
But it doesn't officially kill someone

its power is its surprise factor people will act differently when they think they have more people alive, it also prevents ghosts who die for real from being rezed which is a big factor, its debuff is unstoppable so it cant be healed so TP that doesn't kill is largely useless vrs it

knowing the role of a ghost is kinda useless though since the ghosts ability doesn't do anything now, it is the only one to know "cleaned" roles when they die. knowing roles of alive ghosts is kinda useless

[Mystoc]

been A while since i asked for feedback on this role what do u guys think?

[Seththeking]

Um Mystoc NC means too strong to be a NK or a not independent One......And Odd..... :/

This role is indeed Odd cause of its ability, as it's as confusing as PB.


Can I use this role as a NC on my Discord server?

[sunbird1002]

I like this role, I certainly do. I don't think that the Janitor idea of yours could be that useful, as a hiding of them being dead. Not only will it be pretty tricky to code, but also, if implemented like that, the mafia could simply tell the Janitor that their clean didn't work, so it would be in the end useless anyway. A similar story can be with forger. Perhaps they could both see that their will changes didn't work, and realise that they are a Ghost. Otherwise, keep them as they are, just my suggestion, as I can see that you want Ghosts to have as little differentiation as possible. All the same, for now, Mediums, Jailor seem to be the only roles which get a revelation. A couple of mafia roles will stop early ghosts from being likely towns. I do really like this role, TBH, just because of its redefinition of death. It, for now, has reached its highest peak imaginable, not possible, but imaginable, for now.

However, I can see how some roles on paper can, when thrown into a game, be not very good. As I haven't been in these forums in a while, I can see the extremes of history without any go between explanation. Remember Interviewer, that much beloved role which was one of the mega posts of its time, now being considered as a removal from TG? Or ShadowWalker, that role which was seen as the ultimate peak of ideas and ingenuity slowly going sour like old fruit, before people suggesting that it just doesn't work. For some reason, this role seems to have that type of attribute, and sadly perhaps that type of fate, which awaited those roles. Once thrown into a game, they just may not work. And do I know why? No. I don't know how I can see this attribute in this role, and perhaps neither can anyone. Perhaps its hidden so deep down that while its not great enough to comment on, but not offensive enough to criticise, no one knows why that is the case. I can try my best.

It turns the game into something which isn't weeding out roles any more. The large claim space provided by this role bypasses any other ever to exist. Mediums are not as useful to weed this out, as now, they are constantly watched, as if over their shoulder, by a reverent. The medium is getting nerfed here, as they and the dead need to watch their chat. This side ability is the old Spy of the Medium, and Medium shouldn't be nerfed here.

Turning the Town to VTs and VMs are fine, however, what if a Ghost RM is upgraded to a Mafioso? Does that stay as a Ghost? If so, the Revenant could be shooting themselves in the foot, and, for that matter, everyone in the foot, if they get rid of the killing roles too early by accident, and, mixed with an ability for every role to be wrong in their abilities/results, make for very long, lynchcentric games. This is a rare but possible occurance, of a boring, long drawn game, which would likely end with the Revenant winning after around 10 nights. This isn't a great thing to happen.

The Revenant forces people to rely on meta strategies, such as VFR, to win, as abilities would slowly turn useless. Scum-reading, though it can happen, won't be all that telling, I imagine, in the highest ranks of play (as I am merely a Silver Rank, I cannot comment that much on the highest, VFR to win, style of play). At the same time, as abilities will go wrong over time, it will be almost impossible to deduce a Town who is a Ghost and scum which are lying. This won't be fun for many people, as it isn't their choice whether they are infected. It won't be at all fun for whoever is a Ghost in N1, as, if they die, at least they know it, rather than them becoming an active liability to their team. The scum will have some fun, with the extra claim space given with this role, but, really, if even 2 people who are town's will is wrong, then how does that spell for the game. It really puts their efforts to nothing, and they cant do anything about it.

I do like this role, remember that. But this is my view, (and, as a Silver Rank, not a very informed or wide POV), on where the role's weaknesses are.

[Mystoc]

I like this role, I certainly do. I don't think that the Janitor idea of yours could be that useful, as a hiding of them being dead. Not only will it be pretty tricky to code, but also, if implemented like that, the mafia could simply tell the Janitor that their clean didn't work, so it would be in the end useless anyway. A similar story can be with forger. Perhaps they could both see that their will changes didn't work, and realise that they are a Ghost. Otherwise, keep them as they are, just my suggestion, as I can see that you want Ghosts to have as little differentiation as possible. All the same, for now, Mediums, Jailor seem to be the only roles which get a revelation. A couple of mafia roles will stop early ghosts from being likely towns. I do really like this role, TBH, just because of its redefinition of death. It, for now, has reached its highest peak imaginable, not possible, but imaginable, for now.

you might be right just to let them fail instead, i dont know how hard it would be to make it so janitor and forger think their power worked but for everyone else it didnt ofc teamates can tell them so, but their still the chance teammates dont bother to check

However, I can see how some roles on paper can, when thrown into a game, be not very good. As I haven't been in these forums in a while, I can see the extremes of history without any go between explanation. Remember Interviewer, that much beloved role which was one of the mega posts of its time, now being considered as a removal from TG? Or ShadowWalker, that role which was seen as the ultimate peak of ideas and ingenuity slowly going sour like old fruit, before people suggesting that it just doesn't work. For some reason, this role seems to have that type of attribute, and sadly perhaps that type of fate, which awaited those roles. Once thrown into a game, they just may not work. And do I know why? No. I don't know how I can see this attribute in this role, and perhaps neither can anyone. Perhaps its hidden so deep down that while its not great enough to comment on, but not offensive enough to criticise, no one knows why that is the case. I can try my best.

didn't see any role feedback their thats very deep though

It turns the game into something which isn't weeding out roles any more. The large claim space provided by this role bypasses any other ever to exist. Mediums are not as useful to weed this out, as now, they are constantly watched, as if over their shoulder, by a reverent. The medium is getting nerfed here, as they and the dead need to watch their chat. This side ability is the old Spy of the Medium, and Medium shouldn't be nerfed here.

reverent cant fake medium though just see the dead chat, not really loosing anything rev seeing the chat wont stop them from talking

unlike spy their is no info rev can share with anyone that he gets he has no team

Turning the Town to VTs and VMs are fine, however, what if a Ghost RM is upgraded to a Mafioso? Does that stay as a Ghost? If so, the Revenant could be shooting themselves in the foot, and, for that matter, everyone in the foot, if they get rid of the killing roles too early by accident, and, mixed with an ability for every role to be wrong in their abilities/results, make for very long, lynchcentric games. This is a rare but possible occurance, of a boring, long drawn game, which would likely end with the Revenant winning after around 10 nights. This isn't a great thing to happen.


any mafia promoted becomes a spectre, any coven who acquires necro book becomes spectre, roles promoted to this way dont gain a basic defense but are still specters basically

The Revenant forces people to rely on meta strategies, such as VFR, to win, as abilities would slowly turn useless. Scum-reading, though it can happen, won't be all that telling, I imagine, in the highest ranks of play (as I am merely a Silver Rank, I cannot comment that much on the highest, VFR to win, style of play). At the same time, as abilities will go wrong over time, it will be almost impossible to deduce a Town who is a Ghost and scum which are lying. This won't be fun for many people, as it isn't their choice whether they are infected. It won't be at all fun for whoever is a Ghost in N1, as, if they die, at least they know it, rather than them becoming an active liability to their team. The scum will have some fun, with the extra claim space given with this role, but, really, if even 2 people who are town's will is wrong, then how does that spell for the game. It really puts their efforts to nothing, and they cant do anything about it.


your looking at infected i cant use my abilties this isnt fun, im seeing it has they arent dead can still talk and vote they have much more say in what goes on, then someone who was dead and thats the alternative other killers offer



I do like this role, remember that. But this is my view, (and, as a Silver Rank, not a very informed or wide POV), on where the role's weaknesses are.

weaknesses

its basically an ASRO who can only ingite if everyone is doused but in the revenants case it just wins after the last person is dead / a ghost or spectre
it can be voted by the people it "killed" is its main weakness and its bad inves result,
i did think about giving ghosts the asro treatment but that would be to strong i think

strengths
are its debuff cant be stopped, but can make the victim become a spectre instead of ghost since it defense is basic or higher
role has powerful defense
and it can control info if ghosts and specters die since roles and wills are hidden

i beilive this is one the few roles where cleaning roles will work because of the unique circumstances attached to the power

[sunbird1002]

For your last point, what I am saying is though the dead will try and contribute, it will eventually be annoying to them that they are basically VTs, but not even that, negative utilities, to their faction. The longer they believe in their utility, the more the negative utility aspect of this role will shine through to others. If I am an invest who is a N1 ghost, then I'd prefer to be dead on N3, rather than feeding the town incorrect information through no fault of my own. How are you meant to tell someone who is fake claiming Sheriff and an actual sheriff if they are both Ghosts? If you simply cant tell, how do you know how much progress you have made? As this role isn't directly killing them, in the usual sense, lookouts and doctors and bodyguards are weak against it. Its not like an arso, where it can get found out because everone is bg, arso gf. This is near undetectable, until someone dies. It of course cant claim medium, but it stops mediums giving names to townies, which is only ever major if there is a retri, so thats a good thing

I love this role, overall. Dont think I am trying to attack it, I am just giving feedback of what people could say, and you asked for some, after all. Perhaps ill see it in TG!

[Mystoc]

For your last point, what I am saying is though the dead will try and contribute, it will eventually be annoying to them that they are basically VTs, but not even that, negative utilities, to their faction.

being dead is way more of negative though its not just votes they also have power of typing which is very interactive.

The longer they believe in their utility, the more the negative utility aspect of this role will shine through to others.

yes this only applies to inves consig, sherrif just gets NS which doesnt hurt town but doesnt help it either with the false results though others will simply get no results, that is a strength this role has

If I am an invest who is a N1 ghost, then I'd prefer to be dead on N3, rather than feeding the town incorrect information through no fault of my own.

you have to weigh the incorrect info vrses you being able to vote, remember inves gets the result of who the revanent visits, you can simply check the same person twice and see if you get the same result since this role cant visit the same role twice, or simply check a confrimed role like jailor or mayor and see if the inves result fits (that only takes one night to vrses two) so their is counterplay if you want to check if your a ghost


How are you meant to tell someone who is fake claiming Sheriff and an actual sheriff if they are both Ghosts? If you simply cant tell, how do you know how much progress you have made?

you have to read the situation or simply trust, scum read or see which sheriff is giving results a fake sheriff claim wont be giving up their mafia team members, if both are ghosts and die you cant know but if one dies and is spectre you can assume that was the one who was lying has very few town roles would be a spectre

As this role isn't directly killing them, in the usual sense, lookouts and doctors and bodyguards are weak against it. Its not like an arso, where it can get found out because everone is bg, arso gf.

lookout yes that is strength this role has same thing with asro though

bg and crusdaer still have uses has they make it so the person becomes as spectre instead of ghost which lets them rentian their abilities ( i know it will feel like they did nothing since no notifications but their is still an impact for sure


changing it to that is buff to the role though as it makes it so the rev can explain its inves results

it makes inves better at finding ghosts but worse at finding the revenant



This is near undetectable,

same with asro the lack of kills happening indacates its either asro or this role, its kinda delectable that way,

also sherrif and inves both can find ( yes if a ghost they cant but a dead sherrif or inves cant check at all)

until someone dies. It of course cant claim medium, but it stops mediums giving names to townies, which is only ever major if there is a retri, so thats a good thing,

i dont really think meduim cares if what rev knows even their own identity remember lets say rev does attack a meduim who gave their name, meduim knows when they become a ghost and still is one the few ghost roles that retian their ability

I love this role, overall. Dont think I am trying to attack it, I am just giving feedback of what people could say, and you asked for some, after all. Perhaps ill see it in TG!

nah im enjoying the feedback a ton! I never view that has an attack.