Please keep on the topic of FIX #2 for now. Thank you.
FIX #1 - This fix was submitted to Testing Ground in May 2017. It was denied on the basis that it was too complicated and that they would rather remove the role than try to fix it. This is understandable. Spoiler:My favourite thing about the Werewolf fix I am presenting here is that it adds to the flavor of the Werewolf. The variety it gives the role with it's increased functionality should improve the player's chances of reaching the late game and pulling off a win. Have a read, tell me what you think, and vote for it in the testing ground when it gets accepted.
Full Rolecard:
Foreword: When there is a Werewolf in the game, a random Town role from the list below will be given to one of the players. Then, one of the players whose role is on the list will be randomly chosen to be the Werewolf. That player will not know he is the Werewolf until the first time he transforms.
The list: Doctor, Escort, Investigator, Lookout, Sheriff, Tracker, Transporter.
You'll notice that this list includes most Town roles that can visit people during the night. The only Town roles that visit which are excluded are those that can kill. This is to prevent having a Werewolf who can kill when it isn't a full-moon. Those roles are too important to take away from the Town.
Role Name: Werewolf
Alignment: NeutralKilling
Description: You are a regular Town member, until the full moon changes you into a terrifying Werewolf.
Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. Wins with: Survivor, Witch Must kill: Town, Mafia, Vampires, Arsonist, Serial Killer
Attributes: You have all the actions and abilities of the Town role that you were given to accompany your role as Werewolf. During a full-moon night, the action you choose is overwritten with rampaging wherever you visit. For a Transporter/Werewolf, you will rampage at the location of the player chosen in the left column. When you rampage, you attack each person who visits the same person you visited, including that person.
Special Attributes: Night Immunity Bite Immunity Ignores Night Immunity Counterattacks Role Blockers Unique Role
Notification Text (non-Full Moon night): When it isn't a full moon, all notification text for investigating roles will give the results of the accompanying Town role, except when framed or doused.
Notification Text (Full Moon night): Sheriff: Your target is a Werewolf. Investigator: Your target is waiting for the perfect moment to strike. They could be the Sheriff, Executioner or Werewolf. Consigliere/Witch: Your target howls at the moon. They must be a Werewolf.
Additional Information: - The first time you transform into a Werewolf you will see this message: "You transformed into a powerful Werewolf and went on a rampage!" - Beginning on the third day, the role-card displayed to you in game switches from your Town role's card to the Werewolf's, depending on whether it will be a full-moon that night. Both cards will display you both role names at the top, the alignment "NeutralKilling", and the goal "Kill everyone who would oppose you." The Werewolf's win with/must kill will display when moused over. - At the start of the each day following a full moon, everyone will see the message "Someone in the Town transformed into a ferocious Werewolf last night." - When you die your Town role's name will be displayed in the Werewolf color.
Reason for the idea: The Werewolf needs a buff. Everyone knows it. I think my idea adds to the flavor of being a Werewolf while improving it just enough to be effective, but not overpowered. The biggest drawback to this fix/buff is the inconsistency in power level based on what town role becomes the Werewolf, but in truth I would say that it's a good thing. No one will know what kind of Werewolf they are up against. - A Doctor/Werewolf could act in such a way as to bluff innocence to pull through to the end. - An Investigator/Werewolf or Sheriff/Werewolf can find valuable targets to strike down, or learn who to avoid. - A Lookout/Werewolf can spot frequently visited targets to ensure more multi-kill attacks. - A Transporter/Werewolf can throw others off their scent. - An Escort/Werewolf can protect himself from being discovered or attacked. - A Tracker/Werewolf can find others to throw blame around. All options are viable and can lead to a multitude of Werewolf playstyles. That is why I think this buff should be brought into the game.
Note on winning: A suggestion was made (by UltraLuigi) that this role should be able to win with Town before night 2. I think the idea has merit, since until that point the Werewolf doesn't even know it's not part of Town. I would extend that idea to include winning with Town if the Werewolf would die before transforming the first time. I've changed my mind here. The Werewolf is an enemy of the Town, so while it lives, Town can't win. That includes before N2.
FIX #2 - Though my first idea was denied, I want to try again. It is my personal opinion that the Werewolf is too thematically awesome to remove from ToS. I will fight to keep it alive!
First things first: Full Moon nights. - Full moon nights will no longer occur every second night. They will now be every third night, beginning on Night 2. (N2, N5, N8, N11, ...)
Role Name: Werewolf
Alignment: NeutralKilling
Description: Innocently watch the actions of those around you, then savagely end them during the full moon.
Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. Wins with: Survivor, Witch Must kill: Town, Mafia, Vampires, Arsonist, Serial Killer
Attributes: Watch someone each night to see how many people visit them and whether they visit someone (when not transformed). - You see only the number of visitors to your target. No names/roles. - You see only whether your target visited someone or stayed home. Not what they did and to whom. Savagely attack 2 targets or rampage at someone's house (when transformed). - Choose no targets at night to rampage at your house. - Choose 1 target at night to rampage at their house. - Choose 2 targets at night to attack each of them. You will not rampage. Day Ability (once per game) - May choose to transform on a non full moon night. - Not available on days 2, 5, 8, 11, etc, as there will be a full moon those nights.
Special Attributes: Night Immunity Bite Immunity Ignores Night Immunity Role Block Immune Unique Role
Investigative Results / Notification Text: Sheriff: Your target is a Werewolf. Investigator: Your target makes deafening noises. They could be a Bodyguard, Veteran, Musician or Werewolf. Consigliere/Witch: Your target howls at the moon. They must be a Werewolf.
Reason for the idea: Though the TG have stated that they don't want to try to fix the Werewolf, I think it's worth trying. The problems the current version of the role faces are it's inconsistent kill rate and being confined to killing only every second night. It especially has problems with it's kill rate late game when there is a smaller crowd to hide in. This new version of the Werewolf has a guaranteed 2 kills every 3 nights, with the option to drop one of those kills for the potential to kill more. In addition, with the added ability when it isn't transformed, some smart gameplay can allow the Werewolf to identify priority targets to attack. It can also gain information to help to decide when to attack 2 targets, and when to rampage instead.
Debatable Things in Mind: Should it still be every second night instead of every third? If it is every second, does the double attack or rampage option need to change?
Last edited by TheVinylKnight on Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:33 am, edited 12 times in total.
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I NEED YOUR HELP! I'm tracking wins and losses with each faction and role. Submit games here to contribute.
Most Wins: Serial Killer, Investigator, Sheriff, Transporter, Blackmailer Favourites: Vigilante, Consigliere Least Favourites: Transporter, Arsonist, Executioner -- My creations: Werewolf rework Sleeper AgentNeutralChaos Bounty HunterTownKilling -- Spoiler:
I wouldn't say it's worse than the SK. Not entirely. It does get to use it's Town role on odd-numbered nights, so if that's Invest or Sheriff it could be pretty good.
As for being complicated/confusing, ya, you're probably right. Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, I recently changed my name.
I NEED YOUR HELP! I'm tracking wins and losses with each faction and role. Submit games here to contribute.
Most Wins: Serial Killer, Investigator, Sheriff, Transporter, Blackmailer Favourites: Vigilante, Consigliere Least Favourites: Transporter, Arsonist, Executioner -- My creations: Werewolf rework Sleeper AgentNeutralChaos Bounty HunterTownKilling -- Spoiler:
KumoriUchiha wrote:I wouldn't say it's worse than the SK. Not entirely. It does get to use it's Town role on odd-numbered nights, so if that's Invest or Sheriff it could be pretty good.
As for being complicated/confusing, ya, you're probably right. Thanks for the feedback.
I like it , and think I get what you mean.
On full moon nights, it's a werewolf. On other nights, it's just an ordinary town.
I just had a thought. With the Rampage being taken out, the WW can only kill once every 2 nights. Perhaps this can be increased by him counterattacking anyone who tries to attack him during the night, with the Jailor being a potential exception. Counterattacking would only occur on Full Moon nights. Still on the fence about killing Role-Blockers, but maybe it should.
Yes, I recently changed my name.
I NEED YOUR HELP! I'm tracking wins and losses with each faction and role. Submit games here to contribute.
Most Wins: Serial Killer, Investigator, Sheriff, Transporter, Blackmailer Favourites: Vigilante, Consigliere Least Favourites: Transporter, Arsonist, Executioner -- My creations: Werewolf rework Sleeper AgentNeutralChaos Bounty HunterTownKilling -- Spoiler:
BuckeyeNation wrote:I mean... here's a list of all of the possible werewolf candidates:
Elgible: Investigator Sheriff Lookout Escort Doctor
Inelgible: Jailor Spy Transporter Medium Retributionist Bodyguard Veteran Vigilante
Transporter should be eligible. I'm pretty sure they visit the first of their targets. Other than that, and taking Bodyguard out, your list looks the same as mine in the original post.
Yes, I recently changed my name.
I NEED YOUR HELP! I'm tracking wins and losses with each faction and role. Submit games here to contribute.
Most Wins: Serial Killer, Investigator, Sheriff, Transporter, Blackmailer Favourites: Vigilante, Consigliere Least Favourites: Transporter, Arsonist, Executioner -- My creations: Werewolf rework Sleeper AgentNeutralChaos Bounty HunterTownKilling -- Spoiler:
The Werewolf should win with Town if they win before night 2, since they didn't know that they're a werewolf yet. Otherwise, great! I can't really play any neutral killing roles very well, except maybe sk, so this would make it easier for me.
Well here's a signature, I'm not sure what to make it. Favorite role: Medium Least favorite: Any NK
UltraLuigi wrote:The Werewolf should win with Town if they win before night 2, since they didn't know that they're a werewolf yet. Otherwise, great! I can't really play any neutral killing roles very well, except maybe sk, so this would make it easier for me.
I like that idea too. It makes sense. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to program in so I'll make it a side-note at the end.
Parallax7 wrote:Actually a very good change, I like it.
Thanks for the positive review! I have submitted this fix to the Testing Ground staff. If they approve it, I'd love to have your vote to get it tested there.
My fix was denied entry into the Testing Ground. They say they would rather just cut the Werewolf than try to fix it. I don't think that's the right course as the Werewolf is such a flavourful role. It should stay in the game. It deserves to be fixed.
They didn't like how confusing my suggestion was, so I took some time to think about it, and have come up with another suggestion. Please have a read of "FIX #2" in the opening post. Let me know what you think. It may need quite an overhaul, but I think it's a good starting point.
Thank you.
Yes, I recently changed my name.
I NEED YOUR HELP! I'm tracking wins and losses with each faction and role. Submit games here to contribute.
Most Wins: Serial Killer, Investigator, Sheriff, Transporter, Blackmailer Favourites: Vigilante, Consigliere Least Favourites: Transporter, Arsonist, Executioner -- My creations: Werewolf rework Sleeper AgentNeutralChaos Bounty HunterTownKilling -- Spoiler:
Please keep on the topic of FIX #2 for now. Thank you.
FIX #1 - This fix was submitted to Testing Ground in May 2017. It was denied on the basis that it was too complicated and that they would rather remove the role than try to fix it. This is understandable. Spoiler:My favourite thing about the Werewolf fix I am presenting here is that it adds to the flavor of the Werewolf. The variety it gives the role with it's increased functionality should improve the player's chances of reaching the late game and pulling off a win. Have a read, tell me what you think, and vote for it in the testing ground when it gets accepted.
Full Rolecard:
Foreword: When there is a Werewolf in the game, a random Town role from the list below will be given to one of the players. Then, one of the players whose role is on the list will be randomly chosen to be the Werewolf. That player will not know he is the Werewolf until the first time he transforms.
The list: Doctor, Escort, Investigator, Lookout, Sheriff, Tracker, Transporter.
You'll notice that this list includes most Town roles that can visit people during the night. The only Town roles that visit which are excluded are those that can kill. This is to prevent having a Werewolf who can kill when it isn't a full-moon. Those roles are too important to take away from the Town.
Role Name: Werewolf
Alignment: NeutralKilling
Description: You are a regular Town member, until the full moon changes you into a terrifying Werewolf.
Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. Wins with: Survivor, Witch Must kill: Town, Mafia, Vampires, Arsonist, Serial Killer
Attributes: You have all the actions and abilities of the Town role that you were given to accompany your role as Werewolf. During a full-moon night, the action you choose is overwritten with rampaging wherever you visit. For a Transporter/Werewolf, you will rampage at the location of the player chosen in the left column. When you rampage, you attack each person who visits the same person you visited, including that person.
Special Attributes: Night Immunity Bite Immunity Ignores Night Immunity Counterattacks Role Blockers Unique Role
Notification Text (non-Full Moon night): When it isn't a full moon, all notification text for investigating roles will give the results of the accompanying Town role, except when framed or doused.
Notification Text (Full Moon night): Sheriff: Your target is a Werewolf. Investigator: Your target is waiting for the perfect moment to strike. They could be the Sheriff, Executioner or Werewolf. Consigliere/Witch: Your target howls at the moon. They must be a Werewolf.
Additional Information: - The first time you transform into a Werewolf you will see this message: "You transformed into a powerful Werewolf and went on a rampage!" - Beginning on the third day, the role-card displayed to you in game switches from your Town role's card to the Werewolf's, depending on whether it will be a full-moon that night. Both cards will display you both role names at the top, the alignment "NeutralKilling", and the goal "Kill everyone who would oppose you." The Werewolf's win with/must kill will display when moused over. - At the start of the each day following a full moon, everyone will see the message "Someone in the Town transformed into a ferocious Werewolf last night." - When you die your Town role's name will be displayed in the Werewolf color.
Reason for the idea: The Werewolf needs a buff. Everyone knows it. I think my idea adds to the flavor of being a Werewolf while improving it just enough to be effective, but not overpowered. The biggest drawback to this fix/buff is the inconsistency in power level based on what town role becomes the Werewolf, but in truth I would say that it's a good thing. No one will know what kind of Werewolf they are up against. - A Doctor/Werewolf could act in such a way as to bluff innocence to pull through to the end. - An Investigator/Werewolf or Sheriff/Werewolf can find valuable targets to strike down, or learn who to avoid. - A Lookout/Werewolf can spot frequently visited targets to ensure more multi-kill attacks. - A Transporter/Werewolf can throw others off their scent. - An Escort/Werewolf can protect himself from being discovered or attacked. - A Tracker/Werewolf can find others to throw blame around. All options are viable and can lead to a multitude of Werewolf playstyles. That is why I think this buff should be brought into the game.
Note on winning: A suggestion was made (by UltraLuigi) that this role should be able to win with Town before night 2. I think the idea has merit, since until that point the Werewolf doesn't even know it's not part of Town. I would extend that idea to include winning with Town if the Werewolf would die before transforming the first time. I've changed my mind here. The Werewolf is an enemy of the Town, so while it lives, Town can't win. That includes before N2.
FIX #2 - Though my first idea was denied, I want to try again. It is my personal opinion that the Werewolf is too thematically awesome to remove from ToS. I will fight to keep it alive!
First things first: Full Moon nights. - Full moon nights will no longer occur every second night. They will now be every third night, beginning on Night 2. (N2, N5, N8, N11, ...)
Role Name: Werewolf
Alignment: NeutralKilling
Description: Innocently watch the actions of those around you, then savagely end them during the full moon.
Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. Wins with: Survivor, Witch Must kill: Town, Mafia, Vampires, Arsonist, Serial Killer (Please see "note on winning" at the bottom)
Attributes: Watch someone each night to see how many people visit them and whether they visit someone (when not transformed). - You see only the number of visitors to your target. No names/roles. - You see only whether your target visited someone or stayed home. Not what they did and to whom. Savagely attack 2 targets or rampage at someone's house (when transformed). - Choose no targets at night to rampage at your house. - Choose 1 target at night to rampage at their house. - Choose 2 targets at night to attack each of them. You will not rampage. Day Ability (once per game) - May choose to transform on a non full moon night. - Not available on days 2, 5, 8, 11, etc, as there will be a full moon those nights.
Special Attributes: Night Immunity Bite Immunity Ignores Night Immunity Role Block Immune Unique Role
Investigative Results / Notification Text: Sheriff: Your target is a Werewolf. Investigator: Your target makes deafening noises. They could be a Bodyguard, Veteran, Musician or Werewolf. Consigliere/Witch: Your target howls at the moon. They must be a Werewolf.
Reason for the idea: Though the TG have stated that they don't want to try to fix the Werewolf, I think it's worth trying. The problems the current version of the role faces are it's inconsistent kill rate and being confined to killing only every second night. It especially has problems with it's kill rate late game when there is a smaller crowd to hide in. This new version of the Werewolf has a guaranteed 2 kills every 3 nights, with the option to drop one of those kills for the potential to kill more. In addition, with the added ability when it isn't transformed, some smart gameplay can allow the Werewolf to identify priority targets to attack. It can also gain information to help to decide when to attack 2 targets, and when to rampage instead.
Debatable Things in Mind: Should it still be every second night instead of every third? If it is every second, does the double attack or rampage option need to change?
This is really good. at this point werewolf can easily et caught. silent ones or ones investigated as sheriff/exe/ww or immune are an instany lynch since a ww has no claim space. this will givethem the opportunity to act likean escort and like have them believe they are the escort. however it it is not too op since one must still be careful during the full moon night with their action claims. I would love to see this ingame. too difficult for ww to curently win
KumoriUchiha wrote:So, LifeRunner01 and timurtheking, Is there anything you guys would change?
Tbh I like fix 1 alot. Fix 2, I would make it so it can rampage every 2nd night but maybe remove the ability to see who ur target visits?
For fix 1 if u wanted to, you could make roles like Mayor a WW role too, Mayor could pretend hes voting for roles or smth but actually lynches townies and mafia etc. Only problem is this could be poweful late game (which is good for Nk) but still.
TimeToReap wrote:I don't think you understand why people are reworking WW. WW is UP. Not Op
I get that. I don't think you are understanding my two reworks.
1. You said speak about rework 2 only. 2. I didn't re-read the rest as it says the only reworks we're the increase in days til full moon. I read more and discovered the changes, but I still dislike it. Most games only last 8 days, so you are only giving the werewolf 4 confirmed kills maximum.
if you are wondering where i have gone check my website
TimeToReap wrote:I don't think you understand why people are reworking WW. WW is UP. Not Op
I get that. I don't think you are understanding my two reworks.
1. You said speak about rework 2 only. 2. I didn't re-read the rest as it says the only reworks we're the increase in days til full moon. I read more and discovered the changes, but I still dislike it. Most games only last 8 days, so you are only giving the werewolf 4 confirmed kills maximum.
In a game that lasts 8 days, rework 2 gives the WW 6 kills, actually. 2 on N2, 2 on N5, and 2 when it chooses to transform on any one other night. Plus, it has it's night ability when it doesn't transform. You don't have to like the role idea, but calling it a nerf tells me you missed something.
Yes, I recently changed my name.
I NEED YOUR HELP! I'm tracking wins and losses with each faction and role. Submit games here to contribute.
Most Wins: Serial Killer, Investigator, Sheriff, Transporter, Blackmailer Favourites: Vigilante, Consigliere Least Favourites: Transporter, Arsonist, Executioner -- My creations: Werewolf rework Sleeper AgentNeutralChaos Bounty HunterTownKilling -- Spoiler:
