Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (125+ views)

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How do you like this role?

Perfect! To the Testing Grounds!
5
50%
Not bad! Needs a couple of changes, but it's almost ready (please specify).
2
20%
Pretty good. Needs some buffs/nerfs to make it balanced, but is viable (please specify).
1
10%
Okay. Needs quite a few changes to be a viable role (please specify).
2
20%
Utter garbage. Needs an overhaul to even stand a chance (please specify).
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Total votes : 10

Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (125+ views)

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:31 pm

Someone said to me that this role might be rejected purely due to its name. So, I ask you, BMG forum-goer to not focus on the name, but rather the idea behind it, and the mechanics it will play with. It was originally known as the Cultist, but will be known from here on in as the Hypnotist.

The Hypnotist.

Role Alignment: Neutral (Killing)

Win Conditions:
Witches
Survivors
Other Hypnotists
Just the Standard NK Win Conditions

Investigative results:
ConsigiWitch - Your Target is skilled in hypnotization and manipulation. They must be a Hypnotist!
Sheriff - Your Target is a Hypnotist!
Investigator - Lookout, Forger, Amnesiac, Hypnotist

Attributes
Night Immunity
*May add partial detection immunity depending on how this is received, but for now it has none.

Abilities:
Once every second night (1, 3, 5, etc.), you may hypnotize a player. You cannot hypnotize a revealed mayor, a jailor with executions, a jailed player, or another Hypnotist, and you cannot hypnotize if you are jailed.
If you are roleblocked during a night you can hypnotize, you will hypnotize your roleblocker. This does not extend to jailors.
If your hypnotism fails, you may try again the next night.
Your hypnotism goes through night immunity.
Your target will not be notified if they are hypnotized.

***Here's where things get a bit complicated***

You cannot hypnotize for one night after a successful hypnotization. During that night, Your Target will kill whoever they visit, along with themselves.
If they do not visit (Med, Spy, etc.) they will kill one person who visits them by order of their action priority.
If they are not visited, or visit you, they will only kill themselves.
If they are jailed or roleblocked, they will kill their jailor or roleblocker and themselves.
Their attack goes through night immunity.
Added: If you hypnotize a non-visiting role, you will be able to hypnotize again the next night OR your hypnotized will kill all of their visitors if they do not visit OR both. (for help with amount of kills)

Mechanics:
Despite the Hypnotized doing the killing, you are still able to place a death note at your target and their kill.
Your target will appear to have been killed by a hypnotist, as will their kill, leaving it up to town to decide who was the hypnotized and who was the victim.
You will not know who your target visited, if they did at all.
You will be killed by BGs and Veterans, and seen by LOs when you are hypnotizing, but Your Target will be killed and seen when they are attacking.
Your Target and their victim can be saved by doctors. Your target will no longer be hypnotized if they are saved.

Messages:
You have successfully hypnotized Your Target!
Your Target has a strong mind. They were immune to your Hypnotization!
(To the Hypnotized when they have made a kill) You were hypnotized! You have attacked Your Target!
(To the Hypnotized when they kill themselves) You were hypnotized! You have committed suicide!
(To the Hypnotized's victim) You were attacked by a Hypnotist!

Lore: Spoiler: IDFK, maybe I'll write this later. Help?

Just some thoughts:
I thought it would be pretty interesting to have an NK that kills by proxy (like the godfather-mafioso thing) but to have it controllable and things like that would require a conversion or buddy role, and I'm too lazy to write an entirely new faction, so this was the best I could think of.
This doesn't hardcounter BGs, LOs, and Vets, because they are still able to kill or see this role, just not on the night it does the killing.

Spoiler: Update Log:
1.0 - Added Page
1.1 - Added forgotten investigative results
1.2 - Small Buff
1.3 - Larger Buff


So... yeah.

Tell me what you think, I guess.

Thanks!
Last edited by Derpyspaghetti on Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:56 am, edited 6 times in total.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist

Postby Fenraiser » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:10 pm

Most would dislike this role because it is sort of a neutral veteran and werewolf that can have other people kill for them (not very accurate [more so for hypnotized targets] but similar at least). The role seems reasonably balanced, although it still needs a bit of work.

I was going to comment on its kill rate, but I have a few questions I want to clarify first
  • Is the role limited to only 2 kills per night (like only the hypnotized and only 1 person that visits them)?
  • Are the hypnotized like veterans that kill everyone that visits and everyone they visit?

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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:24 pm

Fenraiser wrote:Most would dislike this role because it is sort of a veteran and werewolf that can have other people kill for them (not very accurate but similar at least). The role seems reasonably balanced, although it still needs some adjustment.

I was going to comment on its kill rate, but I have a few questions I want to clarify first
  • Is the role limited to only 2 kills per night (like only the hypnotized and only 1 person that visits them)?
  • Are the hypnotized like veterans that kill everyone that visits and everyone they visit?

Veteran/ww? Forgive me, ut i have no idea where the vet thing is coming in.
This role is able to get, at most, one kill per night (2 kills in 1 night, 1 day of waiting).
The hypnotized will kill the person who visits them with the highest action priority as of now. Idk, should I change this?
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist

Postby Addfire » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:43 am

As I've said on the ToS wiki, I really like this role! (This role did reasonably well on the wiki, being accepted by 66% of role reviewers)
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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist

Postby TheMortician » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:28 pm

This... Is pretty confusing. Maybe instead of Hypnotist, it could be a Bomber who attaches bombs to people? I feel like that makes more sense, like N1 "You decided to attach a bomb to [target]" and then the next die "You decide to detonate your bomb" That way it makes sense that ordinary townies can kill people and how it breaks immunity. It also needs investigative results. I feel like something about it is unbalanced but I can't put my finger on it... Maybe I just don't feel like we need anymore NKs, especially ones that break night immunity. Breaking night immunity kinda defeats the whole purpose of it, especially for roles which it is supposed to protect, like Survivor and Executioner. Maybe get rid of the night immunity breaking and just let it kill more people per night?
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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:49 pm

TheMortician wrote:This... Is pretty confusing. Maybe instead of Hypnotist, it could be a Bomber who attaches bombs to people? I feel like that makes more sense, like N1 "You decided to attach a bomb to [target]" and then the next die "You decide to detonate your bomb" That way it makes sense that ordinary townies can kill people and how it breaks immunity. It also needs investigative results. I feel like something about it is unbalanced but I can't put my finger on it... Maybe I just don't feel like we need anymore NKs, especially ones that break night immunity. Breaking night immunity kinda defeats the whole purpose of it, especially for roles which it is supposed to protect, like Survivor and Executioner. Maybe get rid of the night immunity breaking and just let it kill more people per night?


Well, this has an average of one kill per night (with some exceptions, lime the unlucky hypnotist who targets the medium). Plus, the only the hypnotization goes through night immunity, not the hypnotized's attack. Also, bombs would pribably kill everyone at the house rather than just the hypnotist's target, so ima keep it the way it is, and anyway, I asked to focus on the mechanics, not the name itself.

Thanks for the review, and thanks for catching the investigative results. Ima change that.

Thanks again b0ss.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:52 am

Bumping for more reviews.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist

Postby destruction5033 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:00 pm

Wow! I also have a hypnotist role idea! Anyways, this is not that bad. It may be a small issue that they can't really choose their second kill, but other then that i like it! It is kinda complex though so it may confuse new players.
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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (69 views!)

Postby Fenraiser » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:44 pm

destruction5033 wrote:It may be a small issue that they can't really choose their second kill, but other then that i like it!

That isn't necessarily a deal breaker. See the Electrician for an example (Sorry Kirize if your thread is necrobumped).

The main problem I can see is the kill rate, not that it can't choose the 2nd person to kill. With 2 kills per night that are not guaranteed as it would only affect visiting roles, this role seems to weaker than the werewolf because it can only kill a maximum of two every 2 nights (I'm sorry if I misread) and a weaker sk due to an capped inconstant kill rate. While I did compare your role just now to the werewolf and sk (before I did not have a clear understanding of the role), it isn't to patronize you but demonstrate the weakness the role has in comparison to other neutral killings.

I will think of more things to say later, and I think you should keep to the original intention of hypnotizing others to kill for you no matter what.

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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (69 views!)

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:14 pm

Fenraiser wrote:
destruction5033 wrote:It may be a small issue that they can't really choose their second kill, but other then that i like it!

That isn't necessarily a deal breaker. See the Electrician for an example (Sorry Kirize if your thread is necrobumped).

The main problem I can see is the kill rate, not that it can't choose the 2nd person to kill. With 2 kills per night that are not guaranteed as it would only affect visiting roles, this role seems to weaker than the werewolf because it can only kill a maximum of two every 2 nights (I'm sorry if I misread) and a weaker sk due to an capped inconstant kill rate. While I did compare your role just now to the werewolf and sk (before I did not have a clear understanding of the role), it isn't to patronize you but demonstrate the weakness the role has in comparison to other neutral killings.

I will think of more things to say later, and I think you should keep to the original intention of hypnotizing others to kill for you no matter what.

Ok. I was thinking this was weak, but if you think about it, this thing would have aout 0.66-0.75 kills per night, which is roughly the same as the arsonist. Now, that could be a problem, but I'm not sure what I could do to remedy it. Maybe, if you hypnotize a non-visiting role you get another hypnotization the next night? Or maybe the hypnotized will kill all their visitors? Idk. I'll think about it.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (69 views!)

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:47 pm

Small bump.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (69 views!)

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:04 pm

Buffed it, I hope it'ss better now.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (69 views!)

Postby Awesomeagle23 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:52 am

I love this idea. It's not perfect but it is interesting.
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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (125+ views)

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:57 pm

Teeny Bump
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (125+ views)

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:59 pm

Could I get one or two more reviews on this? I feel like it's super underpowered and want to know what's wrong.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64555 Hypnotist
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=63169 Deconstructor


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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (125+ views)

Postby Fenraiser » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:19 pm

Also, I like these characteristics and think they make the role balanced-
  • Visiting roles will kill their target.
  • Non-visiting roles will act as a 1-night veteran
  • The cool down is removed if one visits a non-visiting role.
  • Night-Immunity Piercing

I like this role as it kills by proxy, and can mainly be found if say if the LO sees the Hypnotist visit person A, and then discover that the next night, person A kills Person B. This is an indirect method of killing, and a discovery of visitation by the LO is not so much a problem with this role.

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Re: Role Idea: Cultist/Hypnotist (125+ views)

Postby 1501227 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:29 pm

One of the things that interests me about this role is how it's the only evil killing role in the entire game that can technically kill while in jail or being roleblocked, without being forced to kill the Jailor or the Escort/Consort.
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