Cult (Informed Minority)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

What do you think?

To the Testing Grounds
61
53%
Needs just a bit of work
19
17%
Unbalanced (Comment)
2
2%
Idea will never work (Comment)
8
7%
To The Testing Grounds
25
22%
 
Total votes : 115

Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby narwhalflies » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:34 pm

Hey this faction all together aounds very interesting. The fact that you cant roll cut-throat is kinda a weird concept to me since theres never a role like thatbefore .
Anyways do you need some lores written down i can help
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Spoiler: (Scrapped) Carrier/Florist-Neutral Killing(originally named gardener)
"Roses Are Covered in Blood, Violets are in the mud. I'm Still Crying, I'm not even Lying. I'm just framing, With my mafia, playing A little game naming, the people who gonna die tonight... just sayin." -Crying the Framer

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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:34 pm

narwhalflies wrote:Hey this faction all together aounds very interesting. The fact that you cant roll cut-throat is kinda a weird concept to me since theres never a role like thatbefore .
Anyways do you need some lores written down i can help

Yea it's just that the Cutthroat is sorta underpowered as a role alone. I mean, custom could place it in there, try to make something balanced. But the idea is supposed to be where everybody has some strategic gameplay that would be unique every game, but it's just there as a backput when you are the last member and you can't really deceive much anymore. So I felt like it shouldn't be rollable.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby narwhalflies » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:00 pm

Gooose26 wrote:
narwhalflies wrote:Hey this faction all together aounds very interesting. The fact that you cant roll cut-throat is kinda a weird concept to me since theres never a role like thatbefore .
Anyways do you need some lores written down i can help

Yea it's just that the Cutthroat is sorta underpowered as a role alone. I mean, custom could place it in there, try to make something balanced. But the idea is supposed to be where everybody has some strategic gameplay that would be unique every game, but it's just there as a backput when you are the last member and you can't really deceive much anymore. So I felt like it shouldn't be rollable.

Hm, okay it kinda reminds me of an un-rollable mafioso but its okay. I also realized that the juggernaut is also an un-rollable role. thanks for clearing that out
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Spoiler: (Scrapped) Carrier/Florist-Neutral Killing(originally named gardener)
"Roses Are Covered in Blood, Violets are in the mud. I'm Still Crying, I'm not even Lying. I'm just framing, With my mafia, playing A little game naming, the people who gonna die tonight... just sayin." -Crying the Framer

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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:46 pm

narwhalflies wrote:
Gooose26 wrote:
narwhalflies wrote:Hey this faction all together aounds very interesting. The fact that you cant roll cut-throat is kinda a weird concept to me since theres never a role like thatbefore .
Anyways do you need some lores written down i can help

Yea it's just that the Cutthroat is sorta underpowered as a role alone. I mean, custom could place it in there, try to make something balanced. But the idea is supposed to be where everybody has some strategic gameplay that would be unique every game, but it's just there as a backput when you are the last member and you can't really deceive much anymore. So I felt like it shouldn't be rollable.

Hm, okay it kinda reminds me of an un-rollable mafioso but its okay. I also realized that the juggernaut is also an un-rollable role. thanks for clearing that out

Glad we came to an agreement.

And yea I don't really like how it's basically a mafioso, but it's really just there as a last minute thing so I tolerate the... lack of creativity there.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:36 pm

Alright last role made! The Cult is officially complete, now is it balanced? That's all that's left, along with achievements and lore, of course.

The Doomcaller is a lot like the Plaguebearer/Pestilence. It "dooms" a player every night, and when 2 doomed players die, then he becomes Hecate, goddess of ghosts and necromancy. She is super powerful and gets 2 kills every night, as well as blocks all visitors to her targets. Essentially, the earlier you can get your doomed players killed, the more likely you are to win.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Parallax7 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:45 am

Investigator Results 2.0
Spoiler: Your target is different than before. They could be a Framer, Arsonist, Doomcaller, Hecate or Vampire.

Your target is respected by their peers. They could be a Bodyguard, Silencer, Godfather or Veteran.

Your target has a personal vendetta. They could be a Retributionist, Possessor, Witch, Lookout or Forger.

Your target reeks of death. They could be a Doctor, Serial Killer, Hollow, Janitor or Medium.

Your target is looking for information. They could be a Investigator, Consigliere, Amnesiac or Shapeshifter.

Your target is acting a fool. They could be a Jester, Trickster or Spiritualist.

Your target is quite disruptive. They could be a Escort, Consort, Transporter or Preacher.

Your target is incognito. They could be a Spy, Blackmailer, Oracle or Survivor.

Your target is armed with a deadly weapon. They could be a Vigilante, Mafioso or Cutthroat.

Your target is capable of changing forms. They could be Disguiser or Ritualist.

Your target has keen senses. They could be a Werewolf, Sheriff, Vampire Hunter, Cleric or Executioner.

Your target is in a position of great power. They could be a Jailor, Mayor or Arbiter.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby davesport12 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:31 am

Goose, You have 3 Head Cult role, I ask you which head role is the best and why?
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:42 pm

davesport12 wrote:Goose, You have 3 Head Cult role, I ask you which head role is the best and why?

*coughs* I have 4. Cleric, Silencer, Hollow, and now the Doomcaller. I think that they are fairly balanced as a whole, but I would have to say that I prefer the Hollow. It's a bit underwelming at first but if you play well at the beginning and have at least 1 support you can really mess around with him. For instances with your extra votes, you can vote someone up and the Arbiter can guilty that player automatically. Or you can reveal and if they try to lynch you a Ritualist can switch you a lot easier. I think it brings in a lot of fun gameplay and it pays off to see what ways you can win the ways and what ways won't work with your abilities instead of just with fakeclaiming.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby DrBonker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:25 pm

What will happen if the Hollow rrveal himself? What will be the benefit of the Cult?
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:32 pm

DrBonker wrote:What will happen if the Hollow rrveal himself? What will be the benefit of the Cult?

Well the idea is that when the Hollow reveals he is giving himself the majority when it comes to voting. That means in essence, as long as Jailor/Town (Killing) have been dealt with, then you have won the game at this point. So essentially you wouldn't reveal until you would be giving yourself the win. As the Cult games would tend to go a bit longer than a mafia game of about 6/7 days, to more like 8/9, then you would probably be revealing around day 7 or so, which would give you 3 votes. And you would have won.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby PogoPokemon » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:36 pm

why isn't this in TOS yet? I'mma start strike, now. (jk)
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby timurtheking » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:38 pm

PogoPokemon wrote:why isn't this in TOS yet? I'mma start strike, now. (jk)

bad bump, stop it
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The Philosophers (New Faction)
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:08 pm

timurtheking wrote:
PogoPokemon wrote:why isn't this in TOS yet? I'mma start strike, now. (jk)

bad bump, stop it

Hey, I’m not against a bump. What do you guys think of the individual roles? That’s the only thing I’m insecure about. Would you consider them balanced according to the rolelists I gave?
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby PogoPokemon » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:07 pm

Gooose26 wrote:
timurtheking wrote:
PogoPokemon wrote:why isn't this in TOS yet? I'mma start strike, now. (jk)

bad bump, stop it

Hey, I’m not against a bump. What do you guys think of the individual roles? That’s the only thing I’m insecure about. Would you consider them balanced according to the rolelists I gave?


Love it. Tell the staff to get in the game. However, NO DLC!!!!
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:06 pm

Basic Information:
Spoiler: Goal:
Kill anyone who does not bow before the gods.


so is that same goal as mafia and coven just worded differently to sounds cool?
if so it's better to just use standard wording
"Kill anyone that will not submit to the cult."

Wins With:
Wins With Cult
Wins With Witch
Wins With Survivor
Must Kill Town
Must Kill Mafia
Must Kill Serial Killer
Must Kill Arsonist
Must Kill Werewolf
May Spare All Others


sounds like standard mafia win condition to me my point above stands

Special Attributes:
- All members of the cult may talk to each other at night
- Any member of the cult who cannot kill, may become a Cutthroat if there are no killing roles left. A Cutthroat may kill 1 player each night, like a Mafioso
- Cult members with no defense will die upon being bitten by a Vampire, cult members with defense will be immune
- The Cult (Head) alignment is unique
- Upon death of Cult (Head), tactical cult will take place

no idea what a tacit cult is but i assume you will explain that later on

Cutthroat
Spoiler: Summary:
You are a desperate member of the cult who has no option but to kill.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Killing)

Abilities:
- May kill 1 player each night

Attributes:
- Not rollable in-game
- Cult members will turn into the Cutthroat if there are no more kill capable roles left

Sample Text:
"You have decided to kill Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing who to kill at night)


-i don't know what not rollable in game means again i assume you will explain this other then that is this role is mafioso moving on (not saying that's a bad thing)
- you don't say what power level its attack is but i'm gonna assume its basic attack or this role is OP may want to add that


Cleric
Spoiler: Summary:
You are the leader of the cult, seeking restoration to the old Gods.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Head)

Abilities:
- May kill 1 player every other night
- The victim will be sacrificed, and you may give power to one of your members

Attributes:
- Night immune
- Detection immune
- If the Cleric is the last surviving cult member, then he may kill every night

Interactions:
Possessor - Will have the investigative results of his revived player
Ritualist - May choose 2 players to be switched with any 1 player (1 use)
Oracle - May read the dead chat at night for 2 nights
Preacher - Will be night immune for 1 preaching use
Spiritualist - Will counter-kill whoever is responsible for his death
Arbiter - May make himself immune to being voted up 1 time (Active ability)
Trickster - May choose to kill 2 players if their current target is lynched
Shapeshifter - Next chosen target will be shifted for 3 days instead of 1

Sample Text:
"You have decided to kill Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing who to kill on odd days)

"You have decided to give power to Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing which member to give power on even days)



-cleric does not sound like an evil name please change it warlock works but that name is TG :(
so it gives cult 1.5 kill now and is basicly a faction buffer (seem like he basicly give cult members a one time use necronomicon each time he kills
-why does it get more kills if alone now the roles is objectively a better GF

does detection immune mean sheriff doesn't find you? or you mean LO cant see you kill please clarify

-you don't say what power level its attack is but i'm gonna assume its basic attack or this role is OP may want to add that

i have not read the other roles yet so i have no idea if the buffs it gives to them are OP or not you should have put this role last after the roles it buffs last knew what the other roles did

expecting people to skip and read each role to judge the balance of these buffs and have to scroll back up each time is very annoying

i may or not take the time to judge the balance of the buffs the cleric has later for now i won't


Silencer
Spoiler: Summary:
You are the leader of the cult, using religion as a scapegoat to kill.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Head)

Abilities:
- Kill someone every other night, making them appear alive until they're killed or lynched.

Attributes
- Your previous victim will officially die once you kill somebody else
- Your target will still count towards the vote count
- Night immune
- Powerful attacks
- Detection immune

Sample texts:
"You have decided to silence Gooose26 tonight."
(Choosing who to silence at night)

"You have been silenced. You have died!"
(Being killed by a Silencer)


this an OP version of imposters tailor role but may ok since it the head of the faction
-there needs to be a time limit on how long they stay fake dead it being forever is OP since it messes with voting majority
-this also prevent ret from rezing the target it so it being forever is broken AF it should be 2 days
-remove it being a powerful attack being able to solo kill NK should never be allowed

-again i assume detection immune means sherrif cant find you

so this interchangeable with cleric i like this idea of leaders being different no other faction does this


Hollow
Spoiler: Summary:
You are the leader of the cult, secretly using sacrifices to empower yourself.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Head)

Abilities:
- Every odd night, attack a player

Attributes:
- Players you kill will have their soul stolen, and they will appear as harvested in the graveyard
- During the night, may reveal himself as the Hollow by selecting himself
- Revealing will show all roles in the graveyard that were harvested, but all the dead player's votes are added to your votes
- May not attack after revealing
- Detection immune
- Night immunity until reveals
- Powerful attacks

Sample Text:
"You have decided to kill Gooose26 tonight."
(Choosing who to kill on odd nights

"Your soul was harvested! You have died!"
(Message to players who are killed by the Hollow))

"You have revealed yourself as the Hollow. You have ___ votes."
(Message to the Hollow if he reveals)

"The Hollow has revealed itself. The Hollow is Gooose26."
(Message to the town if the Hollow reveals)


-so this head does not have a basic defense i don't see it mentioned anywhere
-again this role as powerful attack solo killing NK should never be allowed remove this
-again i assume detection immune means sherrif
-so it reveals to everyone your the hollow?
-this is OP it becomes a race to who cant vote who faster once hollow uses this ability if it works like mayor
-like if it you vrs 3 town and you reveal and gain 3 votes you now have 4 votes and the majority needs is only 3 votes are needed to vote someone so now it's a race who votes the fastest since you are the only one who has to vote on your side you will basicly win every race (you vrs 3 town you only need to click once they have to click 3 times)
-basically once this role reveals if towns jailor/vig is dead this role automatically wins this role is OP AF (this doesn't seem fixable to me delete this)
-if it makes it so the dead souls added to voting majority as well this is even more OP


color=#808080]Doomcaller[/color]
Spoiler: Summary[:
You are the leader of the cult, who can only see death and destruction come to Salem.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Head)

Abilities:
- May doom a player every night
- As Hecate: Kill 2 people every night

Attributes:
- Once 2 doomed players are killed, then Hecate, goddess of ghosts and necromancy, will be spawned (Played by Doomcaller)
- As Hecate: Powerful attacks
- As Hecate: Powerful defense
- As Hecate: All visitors of your targets will be roleblocked (Except cult members)

Sample Text:
"You have decided to doom Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing who to doom)

"The world is ending. You have become Hecate"
(Beginning of night once 2 doomed players have died for Doomcaller)

"You have decided to attack Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing your targets as Hecate)[/color


very boring role you can become hecate by n2
n1 doom player - cut throat kills them same night
2 doom player - cut throat kills them same night

wow so hard

hecate is just a better sk and becoming it is extremely easy
-STOP IT WITH THE POWERFUL ATTACKS FACTIONS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO KILL NK YOUR HURTIN SOUL MAN WHY DO YOU HATE NK SO???


[color=#808080]Possessor
Spoiler: Summary:
You are a necromancer who can control the dead.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Support)

Abilities:
- Revive a player from the dead
- Use the night action of the revived player at night

Attributes:
- Retributionist heals will be changed to "Gooose26 has been revived", to match the Possessor's revive as well
- The Possessor will speak and vote through the possessed player by selecting a sun icon to switch between bodies
- May only work once, but will have unlimited charges until it works
- The possessed player will visit, not the Possessor

Sample Text:
"You have decided to revive Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing a dead target to be revived)

does possessed(revived) person have cult invest results?

also this very counterable ask the person to copy and paste the will they died with if they cant do it then they are evil rezed

so possessor basically has two votes aswell

if real ret rezzed you will be exposed but i guess that's the point you don't know who is fake
- if town asks everyone to type something at same time you cant fool them and it will be apparent if you and your possed never talk at same time
-this role also messes with report system

the role itself meh in power level which is good i can see you just created it to nerf ret


Oracle
Spoiler: Summary:
You are an evil seer who can play with the minds of your victims.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Support)

Abilities:
- May curse one player every night, and they will no longer be able to send or receive night messages/notifications.

Attributes:
- You may see whispers.
- May only have 2 curses at once
- Curses last 2 nights

Sample Text:
"You have decided to lay a curse on Gooose26"
(Cursing a player)

"You were cursed! You are now unable to send or receive night messages."
(Being cursed by an Oracle)


useless for all roles except TI ,jailor and medium half the time this will be role be useless
town support and tp and tk dont need feedback on their messages

Preacher
Spoiler: Summary:
You are an outspoken representative of the cult.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Support)

Abilities:
- May decide to preach during the day

Attributes:
- When he preaches, all players that can visit him, outside of the cult, will visit him.
- Roleblock immune
- 2 charges
- May not preach until night 3
- May not preach on even nights

Sample Text:
"You have decided to preach tonight"
(Choosing to preach at daytime)


so russian roulette and hope tk is vet and not vig or wait till a vig dies and hope RT doesn't have another vig
-i see cleric buffs him to be immune which is fair
-this role is only somewhat op with cleric and since it isn't in everygame it will have variance in its power which is good
-this role is balanced i like it


[/spoiler]




Arbiter
Spoiler: Summary:
You are a powerful figure that is secretly connected to the cult.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Support)

Abilities:
- Choose 1 player each night

Attributes:
- If that player is voted onto the stand first thing the next day, then you may choose his fate
- The votes will not appear at all, only, "An Arbiter has decided your fate!" in place of the final tallies
- A lynched Jester may choose from any living player to haunt
- 2 uses

Sample Text:
"You will try to lynch Gooose26 tomorrow"
(Choosing a target to lynch)

"You have chosen Gooose26 to be guilty"
(Choosing your target as guilty)

"You have chosen Gooose26 to be innocent"
(Choosing your target as innocent)

An Arbiter has decided you are guilty!
(Town message if you chose your target as guilty)

An Arbiter has decided you are innocent!"
(Town message if you chose your target as innocent)


this role is only good if town is bad you created it to counter VFR and it does that well but if town is on to you they wont vote people randomly thus you are useless
-balanced and counters VFR but easily countered


Ritualist
Spoiler: Summary:
You are a magician who plays with death from the shadows.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Deceptive)

Abilities:
- Chooses 2 players per night, preparing his target's body to be switched upon the death of a certain cult member

Attributes:
- For a player to switch bodies, then the specific cult member and the targets need to be linked together
- If a linked player votes guilty on the hung member of the cult or kills him at night, then they will switch bodies
- This will be completely secret, only the switched players will know what happened
- If both vote guilty, then the cult member can choose which one to switch with

Sample Text:
"You have decided to prepare Gooose26's body tonight"
(Picking players to be switched)

"You have decided to connect the bodies to Gooose27"
(Picking a Cult member to be switched)


Spiritualist
Spoiler: Summary:
You are a crazed man who is obsessed with trying to die for the cult.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Deceptive)

Abilities:
- If lynched, can use the abilities of his guilty voters every night

Attributes:
- May not use any player's ability more than once
- After you have used all the living you may use any living player to speak and vote for them
- The next day you have fully died
- May still talk to the cult when dead

Sample Text:
"You have died, reaching your full potential"
(Dying, unlocking the second stage)

"You have decided to steal Gooose26's soul tonight"
(Choosing to vote/speak for somebody the following day)

"Your soul has been stolen! You may not talk or vote today!"
(Message to players who have had their soul stolen at the beginning of the day)


again like your arbiter role this role is strong vrs bad player but incredibly weak vrs players who know what they are doing

just have only one town vote like people do with jester and it's very unlikely that a person is a linked one

this role is OP vrs NK again you must hate this NK link with NK and NK can never kill you now

vrs vet this is OP link vet and die on purpose to them and take their body

this is somewhat balanced vrs vig and jailor since it's their choice to kill you and if act evil its their fault

in short balanced for hanging part OP for getting killed during night part role needs work

this role messes with reports but seems fun but is OP


Trickster
Spoiler: Summary:
You are a crazed murderer who likes to mess with those who are not worthy.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Deceptive)

Abilities:
- May choose 1 player at night to trick, making them appear as a Jester
- If that player is killed that night or the following day, then the Trickster may choose from the guilty voters to kill one
- If killed at night the attacker is killed

Attributes:
- If he doesn't die, you will lose a charge
- Your target will appear to be a Jester if investigated and in the graveyard if killed
- Your curse will last 2 days
- 2 charges
- Usable on cult member
- If you run out of charges, you will die

Sample Text:
"You have decided to trick Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing a target to trick at night)

"The player is cursed! Someone shall die tonight!"
(Message to town if your target is lynched)

"You killed a cursed player! You are destined to die."
(Message to attacker)

"You have decided to kill Gooose26 tonight"
(Choosing who to kill the night after your target was lynched)


again OP vrs Nk, this basicly the same thing as your spritualst role but their body isnt taken remove one these they basicly do same thing

its basicly BG is on target at night and make person jester during day
Shapeshifter
Spoiler: Summary:
You are a witch that can control the appearances of dead people.

Role Alignment:
Cult (Deceptive)

Abilities:
- Select someone and change what role they will appear as if they die

Attributes:
- Your will replaces your target's will.
- Lasts just that day

Sample Text:
"You have decided to alter Gooose26's appearance."
(Selecting to alter your target's appearance.)


overpowered janitor with forgers abilities as well it has unlimited charges whaaaaaaaaaaat were you half asleep when you mad this last one




imma ignore gamemode and inves part balance so that's it for me

i like the head of cult can change no other faction does this

the theme if this faction seems to be tricking players into think dead aren't dead or alive and punishes town for killing people who act like evils

concept is unique enough to work this faction would mess with reporting system a lot though

you must really hate NK or something cause wow

/nosupport for now this needs massive overhaul concept is good though
Last edited by Mystoc on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:17 pm

@Gooose26

I actually agree with some of Mystoc things, So I think you should try this,

Put a limit of 3 Cult Members in any Gamemode.

This would make it not as OP. It would also let the Town/NK/Mafia/ whatever its going against a chance.

Also you should make it where if a Cult Killing is drawn, another Cult Killing can't appear unless no kill capable roles are in cult.

It would do the trick without having to overhaul the roles completely.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby timurtheking » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:59 am

I’m generally not a fan of factions with mafia goals, especially now that there’s coven too. Thats why I normally support factions with a unique-ish goal (and made one myself). If you wanted to, you could try thinking up a special goal for them or maybe even get X many kills
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Salamandos35 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:56 am

Factions with mafia goals are the bread and butter of the game. Factions without mafia goals are basically a whole faction of NE, which, while fun, takes the core premise of the game Mafia/Werewolf and walks out to left field with it. They basically need their own gamemode (like Rainbow or Vigilantics) to function properly.

Btw... I agree some of the roles above may be a little OP, but if every game just had one Cult (Head), one Cutthroat and one Random Cult, it should work out OK. Basically this is powerful enough to stay acceptable in the old Ranked rolelist where Mafia had a hard time.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby timurtheking » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:21 am

Salamandos35 wrote:Factions with mafia goals are the bread and butter of the game. Factions without mafia goals are basically a whole faction of NE, which, while fun, takes the core premise of the game Mafia/Werewolf and walks out to left field with it. They basically need their own gamemode (like Rainbow or Vigilantics) to function properly.

Btw... I agree some of the roles above may be a little OP, but if every game just had one Cult (Head), one Cutthroat and one Random Cult, it should work out OK. Basically this is powerful enough to stay acceptable in the old Ranked rolelist where Mafia had a hard time.

They really dont. Also uniqueish can lead to similar mafia goals but unique mechanics such as Sh99er’s Elementals or a few other favtions I’ve seen
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Salamandos35 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:48 pm

Similar goals but unique mechanics is the optimal situation I think - I agree with you there.

I reiterate that a faction that isn't trying to kill everyone else is basically a whole faction of NE. I think we can agree on that.

Personally, I believe that a whole faction of NE screws up the game too much and ultimately requires the gamemode itself to be rebalanced for it - I mean imagine a game with four execs instead of four maf. Town could win just by not lynching anyone - so then something needs to be implemented to prevent town from just turtling and so on... You end up doing a hundred little rebalances and at the end, the gamemode isn't recognisably the same anymore.
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Mystoc » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:15 pm

any faction idea has to follow the rule if the faction wins town loses otherwise theres no reason to care if the faction wins

the only alternative win condition is do x amount have actions

reach x amount of days

predict correctly x amount of roles

its very difficult to create a faction with a different win condition then kill all of town and NK/NC but is possible
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:11 pm

I would like to make sure that everybody is aware that in the ranked rolelist that I've made for the cult, there is no Cutthroat but just one Cult (Head), meaning this faction has a 0.5 kpn. You keep saying each random (cult) role is overpowered because you are comparing it to the random (mafia) roles, which are supported by a 1 kpn. Essentially, this faction is based a lot less on killing and a lot more on deception and causing mislynches than the mafia which is typically quiet, building a fakeclaim and hoping you don't get caught. Thus, I'd like for you guys to relook over the faction with this perspective in mind. As for the things that stay the same:

Tactical Cult - This is the same thing as Tactical Mafia, where instead of somebody being promoted to Cutthroat(Mafioso), nobody is promoted and the cult gets to decide who kills rather than 1 player being picked.
Not Rollable In-Game - This means that it will not show up anywhere like Random (Cult), but the only way you will see a Cutthroat is if the rolelist specifically says "Cutthroat"
Cult (Head) - All Cult (Head) roles have basic immunity and powerful attacks. I did forget to add one thing from a long time ago however, and that is that Neutral (Killing) roles will survive 1 attack. All Cult (Head) roles are detection immune, meaning that Sheriff will not see them as "A member of the Cult" but rather as "Not Suspicious" like Godfather.

As far as the Cult having a unique goal, I think a game of mafia should be setup mainly with an informed minority vs an uninformed majority. Meaning the minority(cult/coven/mafia) would know mostly who is good and they know all the bad, and they have to overcome the odds and take out the uninformed majority(town) before they can discover who the minority are. Essentially, the game is a mafia-like faction vs a town-like faction. Giving a unique goal breaks the style of the game. If the town can successfully hold of the mafia or still have people standing against the minority, then the evils should never win. I have yet to hear a goal that I find suitable for an informed minority, and I've heard them all as the creator f the Faction Development Discord.

If you think there is a unique goal that works, please tell me and I can tell you why it doesn't work.

Also, let’s just get this straight: Imposter’s Tailor is just an underpowered version of my Silencer, not the other way around ;)
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Mystoc » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:43 pm

thank for clarifying the terms

ima ignore that half your roles have powerful attacks for now i will address that point later on

a lot of your roles swap bodies and have cool effects some of them are balanced however swapping bodies will mess with reporting system

some of your roles are just flat out OP like

hollow if he reveals late game and all TK are dead it's a free win

doomcaller - you can become hecate by n2 and you seem to have buffed it even more since they last time i looked at it this a super SK

ritualist is super OP - vrs vet alerts kill them and take their body, NK can never kill one of your cult member neither can jailor or Vig it's a super TP but a faction factions don't really need TP since they are the aggressor not only does it protect but it attacks as well

trickster - if attacked at night attacker is killed
-do you mean for person you tricked or for the trisker itself if for itself then its OP AF

shapesifter - OP janitor forger with unlimited charges that is all

also trickster and spiritualist basicly do the same thing expect spiritualist is waaay stronger

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even if NK survives one attack why shouldn't they survive all of them?

do you think its fair a faction is allowed to kill NK they are a solo player vrs everyone they have no ally z

they should not be able to be killed by any direct attack at all
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Gooose26 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:36 pm

I really need to go through the page and make things more clear, sorry for confusion

thank for clarifying the terms

ima ignore that half your roles have powerful attacks for now i will address that point later on

a lot of your roles swap bodies and have cool effects some of them are balanced however swapping bodies will mess with reporting system That’s true, but that isn’t a problem in TG, but if implemented into TOS which would never happen but still then it would need to be supported by a better report system. I do think it is possible to make a system defend this problem, just that the current system isn’t equipped correctly

some of your roles are just flat out OP like I’ll take that as a compliment?

hollow if he reveals late game and all TK are dead it's a free win It’s very hard to kill all TKs when you have 0.5 kpn, let alone survive to the late game. It’s the town’s fault for not catching you at that point. I feel it is self explanatory that the average day length would be longer with the cult

doomcaller - you can become hecate by n2 and you seem to have buffed it even more since they last time i looked at it this a super SK False. Domming somebody isn’t killing them. You need to get them lynched or hope that the nk of tk catche them

ritualist is super OP - vrs vet alerts kill them and take their body, NK can never kill one of your cult member neither can jailor or Vig it's a super TP but a faction factions don't really need TP since they are the aggressor not only does it protect but it attacks as well Ritualist only works for lynching

trickster - if attacked at night attacker is killed
-do you mean for person you tricked or for the trisker itself if for itself then its OP AF I mean the guy that attacked the trickster, so jailor and vig counter, but I forgot to put (Basic attack) so not nk counter

shapesifter - OP janitor forger with unlimited charges that is all Exactly, remember the whole 0.5 kpn means that the roles are naturally more powerful to account for it

also trickster and spiritualist basicly do the same thing expect spiritualist is waaay stronger You do know that spiritualisr can only do things when killed right? That’s a big negative

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even if NK survives one attack why shouldn't they survive all of them? Because then the nk has too much control over killing since the game is moving slower and less efficiently for the town, meaning that before the cult would be able to stop the nk he could easily clean them out

do you think its fair a faction is allowed to kill NK they are a solo player vrs everyone they have no ally z I do

they should not be able to be killed by any direct attack at all I disagree
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Re: Cult (Faction)

Postby Mystoc » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:33 am

It’s very hard to kill all TKs when you have 0.5 kpn, let alone survive to the late game. It’s the town’s fault for not catching you at that point. I feel it is self explanatory that the average day length would be longer with the cult


only guaranteed tk who can kill you is jailor vet can be tk and then cant kill you.
there can end up being no vig so jailor will be your only counter late game it will be very likely jailor is dead

and keep in mind if you know who jailor the last killer alive is you can just vote them to stand night after you reveal and hang your last counter this role is still OP

False. Domming somebody isn’t killing them. You need to get them lynched or hope that the nk of tk catche them


so what about the cutthroat doesnt he kill every night cant he just kill doomed targets for you?

if he cant then two doomed every night on average you get this done by n4 or n5 then it might be balanced accept remove powerful attacks

Ritualist only works for lynching


your role says

- Chooses 2 players per night, preparing his target's body to be switched upon the death of a certain cult member


you have this worded absolutely horribly then this heavily implies they can die in anyway it doesn't say upon hanging

I mean the guy that attacked the trickster, so jailor and vig counter, but I forgot to put (Basic attack) so not nk counter


this role is interesting then i would rather it have 3 charges and only last a night but not die if it runs out charges

Exactly, remember the whole 0.5 kpn means that the roles are naturally more powerful to account for it


ok you're implying that cutthroat isn't a role in the faction but its listed as role im so confused, WHY DO YOU HAVE CUTTHROAT AS A ROLE IF IT ISN'T IN THE FACTION

this completely changes how rate the faction if it only has .5 kills you need make it clear that this faction only has .5 kills a night and that cutthroat doesn't appear as a role in the faction

i might go through again grade each role based on this new info but not right now
You do know that spiritualisr can only do things when killed right? That’s a big negative


you're missing my point they are both roles where a thing only happens if someone dies from hanging

all it takes is just having only one town vote to kill you and this role is trash my point was you should merge two roles somehow or just remove cause this is to weak

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keep in mind i thought this faction had 1.5 kills a night the whole letting this faction kill NK more of a worse idea

then the nk has too much control over killing since the game is moving slower and less efficiently for the town, meaning that before the cult would be able to stop the nk he could easily clean them out



keep in mind i thought this faction had 1.5 kills a night the whole time i previously reviewed this

letting this faction kill NK more of a worse idea now that i know it only has .5 kills

kill NK when you only have .5 kills is A HORRIBLE idea you need them alive till there very end

games will easily last to night 9 or 10 if nk dies early you will lose by then

if you can accidently kill NK early on guarantee your faction looses becuase town will die to slowly and be able to gather enough info to hang you

infact if try tries to hang or kill NK early you should do everything in your power to keep nk alive that how important is it to your faction winning since it only has .5 kill a night

not only is it fair a team of 4 people can kill a player who is solo vrs the rest the game its also basically a guaranteed loss for you faction if you Kill NK early on

how would you like it you were nk and just got kill accidently N2 no strategy no chance can win nothing you could've done you had no chance to counter this and have no allies in your win condition so you just straight up loose

why do you think that's fair tell

evil actions are meant to use voting to kill NK they should never be able to directly kill NK during the night

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now that this cut throat not being in the faction even though its a role in your list thing is cleared

i think this faction is a lot fairer now expect you basically shitting on NK this faction has has huge potential
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