Infiltrator - Another NC

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Which alignment is better? BALANCE REASONS ONLY

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Infiltrator - Another NC

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:39 pm

Name: Infiltrator (Open to suggestions)

Alignment: NC

Abilities:

- Investigate someone each night.
Attributes:

- Your target will be informed that they were investigated. Ex. "A window you left closed was open, and your house was searched. You have been investigated by an Infiltrator!"
- Your results will be the standard consig results.
- If you are alive and town's win conditions are met, you win and town loses immediately.

Special Attributes:

- Night-Immune
- Unique

Goal:

Earn the town's trust, and stab them in the back.

Additional info: A word on winning

Simply put, the Infiltrator wins when town would otherwise win - ALL evil killers are dead, witch+vig doesnt exist, no vamps, etc. However, if HE is still alive
at that point, town loses and HE wins. Town must kill him before satisfying win conditions to win.

In situations where town is dead AND the factions it must kill are dead (ex. Witch+Vig+Infiltrator, Witch forces vig to suicide leaving Town dead but no Town victory-stopping roles left) Infiltrator does win. However, his win is delayed until vig or witch are dead.


Investigator stuff:

Sheriff can find him. LO can, obviously, find him.

Invest would see him as Investigator/Consigilere/Infiltrator. I have no idea why the hell Mayor is in those investigator results tbh.
Last edited by Spectre0 on Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:38 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby squimbles » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:04 pm

Wouldn't this just be a weaker witch? Since the witch can see people's roles as of the new update?
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:14 pm

squimbles wrote:Wouldn't this just be a weaker witch? Since the witch can see people's roles as of the new update?


No offense, but you just completely missed the entire point of this role.

Seriously, the entire concept. You missed it.


Its primary purpose is NOT as a neutral investigator. Those are cancer and should burn in hell. It's primary purpose is to act as a counter to TI confirmation (Even with exe, it's VERY easy to confirm yourself as TI. Invest and LO are insta-confirms, and sheriff is confirmed the moment he finds a maf/nk).

It also gives town another obstacle between itself and victory, and frankly, town NEEDS those.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby KyoDaz » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:11 am

Spectre0 wrote:
squimbles wrote:Wouldn't this just be a weaker witch? Since the witch can see people's roles as of the new update?


No offense, but you just completely missed the entire point of this role.

Seriously, the entire concept. You missed it.


Its primary purpose is NOT as a neutral investigator. Those are cancer and should burn in hell. It's primary purpose is to act as a counter to TI confirmation (Even with exe, it's VERY easy to confirm yourself as TI. Invest and LO are insta-confirms, and sheriff is confirmed the moment he finds a maf/nk).

It also gives town another obstacle between itself and victory, and frankly, town NEEDS those.


It's a debuffed witch that has changed invest results.
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This theory is mostly based on the fact that I feel my brain cells hanging themselves as I read this role idea.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Damafaud » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:33 am

Spectre0 wrote:
squimbles wrote:Wouldn't this just be a weaker witch? Since the witch can see people's roles as of the new update?


No offense, but you just completely missed the entire point of this role.

Seriously, the entire concept. You missed it.


Its primary purpose is NOT as a neutral investigator. Those are cancer and should burn in hell. It's primary purpose is to act as a counter to TI confirmation (Even with exe, it's VERY easy to confirm yourself as TI. Invest and LO are insta-confirms, and sheriff is confirmed the moment he finds a maf/nk).

It also gives town another obstacle between itself and victory, and frankly, town NEEDS those.

Your intention is good, but that won't work. If I play this, I'll just search for Mafia, whisper the townie roles I found to them, and dance toward happily ever after.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:59 am

Damafaud wrote:
Spectre0 wrote:
squimbles wrote:Wouldn't this just be a weaker witch? Since the witch can see people's roles as of the new update?


No offense, but you just completely missed the entire point of this role.

Seriously, the entire concept. You missed it.


Its primary purpose is NOT as a neutral investigator. Those are cancer and should burn in hell. It's primary purpose is to act as a counter to TI confirmation (Even with exe, it's VERY easy to confirm yourself as TI. Invest and LO are insta-confirms, and sheriff is confirmed the moment he finds a maf/nk).

It also gives town another obstacle between itself and victory, and frankly, town NEEDS those.

Your intention is good, but that won't work. If I play this, I'll just search for Mafia, whisper the townie roles I found to them, and dance toward happily ever after.


...until someone asks "How do you know", town realizes you found the mafia, and also realizes you might be infiltrator.

What gamemode do you play where people lynch without even asking for YOUR role? Even in Classic, you can't anonymously lynch someone.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:01 am

KyoDaz wrote:
Spectre0 wrote:
squimbles wrote:Wouldn't this just be a weaker witch? Since the witch can see people's roles as of the new update?


No offense, but you just completely missed the entire point of this role.

Seriously, the entire concept. You missed it.


Its primary purpose is NOT as a neutral investigator. Those are cancer and should burn in hell. It's primary purpose is to act as a counter to TI confirmation (Even with exe, it's VERY easy to confirm yourself as TI. Invest and LO are insta-confirms, and sheriff is confirmed the moment he finds a maf/nk).

It also gives town another obstacle between itself and victory, and frankly, town NEEDS those.


It's a debuffed witch that has changed invest results.


Congratulations on repeating something I already answered to, without providing any additional reasoning. I'll always treasure the nothing you brought to the discussion.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby KyoDaz » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:17 am

Spectre0 wrote:
KyoDaz wrote:
Spectre0 wrote:
squimbles wrote:Wouldn't this just be a weaker witch? Since the witch can see people's roles as of the new update?


No offense, but you just completely missed the entire point of this role.

Seriously, the entire concept. You missed it.


Its primary purpose is NOT as a neutral investigator. Those are cancer and should burn in hell. It's primary purpose is to act as a counter to TI confirmation (Even with exe, it's VERY easy to confirm yourself as TI. Invest and LO are insta-confirms, and sheriff is confirmed the moment he finds a maf/nk).

It also gives town another obstacle between itself and victory, and frankly, town NEEDS those.


It's a debuffed witch that has changed invest results.


Congratulations on repeating something I already answered to, without providing any additional reasoning. I'll always treasure the nothing you brought to the discussion.


I actually did put something to the discussion. I made squimbles post more understandable, as some people don't understand what he means.
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Spectre0 wrote:I have a theory that whenever someone suggests a role that converts evils into town, the collective IQ of the forums goes down by a tangible amount.

This theory is mostly based on the fact that I feel my brain cells hanging themselves as I read this role idea.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:36 pm

KyoDaz wrote:
I actually did put something to the discussion. I made squimbles post more understandable, as some people don't understand what he means.


Guess I missed the person who misunderstood him, then.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby DrRockit » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:09 pm

How is this a "nerfed witch". Literally, it's a completely diffrent role and you guys are making no argument other than "it's just witch". I think the idea is awesome really. Town can use more ACTUALLY EVIL NE's. This takes away and adds doubt into some of towns biggest strength, confirmability. Oh? You are the TI who found the GF? Probably Infiltrator now.

While it has the problem of being caught easily, I think that adds to the fun. If everyone knows their house has been infiltrated, they can't trust any of their own TI's.

Only problem with the role:
The n00bs who will complain that infiltrator just steals wins from town. ((Not like town needed them)).
If town didn't find the infiltrator that's their own problem.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby BlazinIce » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:55 am

So it's an anti-everyone ne? Would be better as nc
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:37 am

BlazinIce wrote:So it's an anti-everyone ne? Would be better as nc


NC isn't supposed to be the "miscellaneous" alignment, but eh. I'll make a poll about it.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Damafaud » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:47 am

Question: If this role win, Mafia and NK will lose, right?

Still thinking Neutral Consigliere is a bad idea.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:57 am

Damafaud wrote:Question: If this role win, Mafia and NK will lose, right?



If this role wins, EVERYONE will lose with the exception of NB and NE.


Still thinking Neutral Consigliere is a bad idea.


Why? The usual arguments against Neutral investigators are invalid considering this specific role.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Damafaud » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:12 am

Right. Confused even more where to put this role. NE won't work since it didn't help evil. It's also too weak for NC...

AAA

founding a problem is frustating. This role lack survivability.

One mafia shot to the head. BANG! dead.

"Oh look, a Consigliere claiming TI when TI and RT is filled. Lynch him!"

It's a full moon tonight.

This role lack ally. It gather information, but has no idea to really use it.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby BS4125 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:17 am

This will be fine if Witch loses Consigliere abilities but it is still NC

NC's are basically any role that doesn't win with Town, Mafia or NKs, only wins with NEs and NBs and have a non-killing ability (so a NK with no Killing ability). This role doesn't win with Mafia, Town or NKs, only wins with NEs and NBs and its ability is to investigate people which isn't a killing ability

In fact this role doesn't even remotely match up being an NE.

NEs win with every alignment except Town (unless they complete their goal), the Infiltrator wins with every alignment except Town, Mafia and NKs.
NEs messes with roles in the town with the extent of passively killing one role, the Infiltrator doesn't interfere with anyone
NEs are either pro Town and pro evils or anti Town and pro evils, the Infiltrator is anti everything, only pro neutrals

This role is more like a NB than a NE but NBs win with everyone and the Infiltrator doesn't

Just because there exists the Vampire in the NC alignment now, doesn't mean that every role that follows the Vampire in NC should be a toxicly overpowered role


Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Damafaud » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:25 am

But no role should be this weak either without any real friends. (Witch and Survivors are NOT a real friend)

Especially since Sheriff can found this role and every time they visit, the visited notice.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby BS4125 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:35 am

Damafaud wrote:But no role should be this weak either without any real friends. (Witch and Survivors are NOT a real friend)

Especially since Sheriff can found this role and every time they visit, the visited notice.

Very true also
It's needs protection if it's by itself


Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:17 pm

I'll consider adding immunity. It shouldn't be necessary, though, since ideally the infiltrator wouldn't be vocal at ALL. A clever infiltrator wouldn't lynch mafia directly - they'd get actual TI to visit them, or otherwise get them lynched without claiming TI (not impossible at all).

Hence, mafia wouldn't have much reason to directly attack (if Infiltrator's playing well) and town likewise wouldn't be too untrustworthy of them. Claiming TI as infiltrator is actually a fairly bad claim.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby awa2001 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:49 pm

Good role idea but the win condition is really bothering me. As an infiltrator you can just stay silent the whole game, watch the town roll over the evils and still win even though you did nothing. This is really bothering me. It's almost as if the town gets punished for doing everything right, which isn't fair. The game should always reward good decisions and punish bad ones.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:01 am

awa2001 wrote:Good role idea but the win condition is really bothering me. As an infiltrator you can just stay silent the whole game, watch the town roll over the evils and still win even though you did nothing. This is really bothering me. It's almost as if the town gets punished for doing everything right, which isn't fair. The game should always reward good decisions and punish bad ones.


I've never, in my life, seen a person survive a whole match by just sitting quietly.

If the Infiltrator survives the entire game, town DIDN'T do everything right. This is another obstacle between town and victory, and town needs more of those. ATM it's simply to lynch 5-6 evils at the very most, which isn't difficult when you consider the power of TI's combined with all the friendly-protecting and evil-inhibiting roles.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 pm

I desire more feedback.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:27 pm

Bump
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby sh99er » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:24 am

Just a random idea, makeing it night immune? Cus then it cant just die out early and it could make the mafia / sk know that hes a infiltrator when they attack him. So it can lead to interesting outcomes.

Also if he was some how the last person left alive would he win or lose? draw? cus town would "win" but they wouldnt lose. If town all dies i think if he can some how make himself the last one left he can win.
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Re: New role: Infiltrator

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:47 pm

sh99er wrote:Just a random idea, makeing it night immune? Cus then it cant just die out early and it could make the mafia / sk know that hes a infiltrator when they attack him. So it can lead to interesting outcomes.

Also if he was some how the last person left alive would he win or lose? draw? cus town would "win" but they wouldnt lose. If town all dies i think if he can some how make himself the last one left he can win.


Night immunity is cool. It's a curse as often as it is a blessing, anyway.

Infiltrator shouldn't win if everyone dies, because there's no guarentee that town was one of the final few factions. If they got eliminated and it's "Arso vs WW" at the end, then infiltrator wouldn't win because town legitimately lost.
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