My first role idea: Soulkeeper

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My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:58 pm

Note: This role idea is made totally on a whim. Please feel free to be as absolutely savagely harsh with me as you may notice I am with other role posters

Name: The Soulkeeper

Alignment: Neutral Chaos

Abilities: Every other night, take the soul of one of the dead. They will be notified that their soul was taken.

Select yourself to begin the Awakening. This can be done any night.

Attributes:

- A dead who's soul has been taken may no longer be revived by retributionist or speak with medium (Yes, this means those two roles can discover the presence of a Soulkeeper)
- A dead who's soul has been taken may talk with the Soulkeeper at night. He will appear only as Soulkeeper.
- A dead who's soul has been taken remains the role they originally were (they still win with their original faction). Medium can still seance.
- The soulkeeper may not take the Jester's soul.
- The soulkeeper may not take the Executioner's soul.
- If you fail to take a soul for any reason, you will be able to do so the next night.
- You may steal cleaned souls.
- If a dead whose soul you took leaves, they Spectre will remain alive and copy your votes.
- If the cleaned soul is Jester/Executioner, the conversion will fail and you will be informed ("The soul conversion failed!")

(Those immunities are to ensure that a person who has ALREADY won is not forced to win again because SoulKeeper takes their soul)

Special Attributes:

- Bite immune
- Night immune
- Unique


Goal: Overwhelm all who oppose you with your undead minions.

Win conditions: Wins with survivor and witch. Wins with Spectres, which I'll get to in a bit

Investigative results:

Medium/Janitor/Retributionist/Soulkeeper is the most popular, so there it is. I don't like 4-role results personally tbh.

People are perfectly split about sheriff being able to find him or not, with 50% on either side (according to poll) out of 14 total votes. Since I feel that it's still a little too easy for SKeep to stay anonymous, I'll make it so that Sheriff can find SKeep
Now let's talk about the Awakening

Upon targetting himself at night, the Soulkeeper can trigger the Awakening. He can only do this once, and loses his ability to take souls. The witch can NOT trigger this - if she makes the Soulkeeper target himself, he will simply do nothing. The reason for this is that letting witch waste the Awakening would be incredibly destructive to soulkeeper (and also screw over every player whose soul he's taken).

The next day, every single person who's soul had been taken will be revived as a Spectre (permanently). The Spectres have no night ability and no special attributes - They are immune to nothing, and can only vote and speak.

However, they can still speak to the Soulkeeper at night. He will still appear only as Soulkeeper (but obviously can disclose his name if he wants)

They can only win with soulkeeper (and the people Soulkeeper wins with).


Should the Soulkeeper die, Spectres do not die. They can win, and their win will also give victory to the SoulKeeper.




I'm crap at lore-writin', so if someone could do that for me I'd appreciate it.


Example Scenario

(assume this is Ranked, but with an extra townie rather than NK. If there was an NK (and there would be in normal Ranked), Soulkeeper's job would be much easier. Soulkeeper is not included in the remaining town numbers)

N1: Soulkeeper does nothing. Can't steal a soul tonight. There are, say, 8 townies, 3 mafia, and 2 neutrals, with 0 stolen souls
D2: Mafia has killed a townie.
N2: Steals a soul of a dead townie. 7 townies remain, 3 mafia, 2 neutrals, and 1 stolen soul.
D3: Town ends up lynching the survivor.
N3: Nothing. 6 townies remain, 3 mafia, 1 neutral, and 1 stolen soul.
D4: A good day for town. A maia is caught and lynched (Janitor), and they also happen to attack the person doctor healed.
N4: Steals a soul. 6 townies remain, 2 mafia, 1 neutral. 2 stolen souls.
D5: The spy is shot. As the other TI revealed to lynch the mafia, Soulkeeper can now whisper with relative safety (though RT spy can call him out, he takes the risk). He contacts the Neutral Evil, who is witch.
N5: Nothing. 5 townies, 2 mafia, 1 neutral, and 2 stolen souls remain. After the awakening, the Soulkeeper will have 3 others on his side.
D6: Jailor has mistakenly executed medium. Escort is forced to reveal when put on stand.
N6: Steals a soul. 4 townies, 2 mafia, 1 neutral, and 3 stolen souls remain. After the awakening, the Soulkeeper will have 4 additional allies. He is nearly ready.
D7: The vigilante randomly shot, killing the mafioso. Town is beginning to suspect the Soulkeeper, one of the few who has not claimed. He hurriedly claims retributionist, but town is prepared to lynch him regardless. Luckily, he stalls long enough that the voting period runs out.
N7: He begins the Awakening. Tomorrow, there will be 4 townies, 1 mafia, 1 neutral, and 3 spectres. He will have 4 allies. Should the mafia be smart and fail to kill a target, he will be in trouble as mafia will vote with town to prevent his victory
D8: He's lucky. Mafia shot the Jailor. There are 3 townies, 1 mafia, and 4 allies. His 5 votes (including him) are able to lynch the godfather before he kills a Spectre.
N8: He celebrates in night chat. That was a close one.

He proceeds to lynch the remaining town, and wins the game.
Last edited by Spectre0 on Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:27 pm, edited 34 times in total.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby BlazinIce » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:07 pm

"Conversion Role - Any role that converts other people into a different role."
This was in role ideas not to make.
Also, it's kinda cheap to make somebody lose if they worked for their original team really well, but they were converted into a specter. Sorry, but /nosupport.
Wait, nvm. They can win with their original faction but can only win with soulkeeper?
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby TheMajesticSammie » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:16 pm

This role literally does nothing
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:57 pm

BlazinIce wrote:"Conversion Role - Any role that converts other people into a different role."
This was in role ideas not to make.
Also, it's kinda cheap to make somebody lose if they worked for their original team really well, but they were converted into a specter. Sorry, but /nosupport.
Wait, nvm. They can win with their original faction but can only win with soulkeeper?



They can win with their original faction until the Awakening, at which point they revive as Spectre and win only with Soulkeeper.

Also "Somebody else said don't do it" isn't a helpful or valid criticism.
Last edited by Spectre0 on Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:58 pm

TheMajesticSammie wrote:This role literally does nothing



Thanks for that! I look forward to your improved feedback after you read my post.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Ralozey » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:28 pm

Spectre0 wrote:Alignment: Neutral Chaos
I wouldn't do NC on this. I'd rather put it to Neutral Evil as they are only harming the Town.

Spectre0 wrote:Every other night
Being?

But besides that
/support

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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby TheMajesticSammie » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:14 pm

If more than one person is revived at once, it'll be really obvious that there's a "soulkeeper" on the loose. If there's even a single investigator, they would be able to find them immediately.

If the "spectres" are allowed to win, even if the "soulkeeper" loses, then what's their motivation for helping them, and why should the "soulkeeper" even create minions in the first place?

Even if those things are fixed, this role will still be pretty overpowered, given that the "soulkeeper" could create an overwhelming army of the undead, similar to a necromancer.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:39 am

TheMajesticSammie wrote:If more than one person is revived at once, it'll be really obvious that there's a "soulkeeper" on the loose. If there's even a single investigator, they would be able to find them immediately.

If the "spectres" are allowed to win, even if the "soulkeeper" loses, then what's their motivation for helping them, and why should the "soulkeeper" even create minions in the first place?

Even if those things are fixed, this role will still be pretty overpowered, given that the "soulkeeper" could create an overwhelming army of the undead, similar to a necromancer.



1. Yes. The soulkeeper is meant to revive at a critical moment, not right away like an idiot. Kind of like arso, it's swinging the axe on town when it's weakest, and puts a lot of pressure on taking out SK early.

2. Same reason Escort is motivated to help Vigilante, even though one's death doesn't impact the other. Taking out a member of your faction is gamethrowing, and wasting a night lynching soulkeeper is stupid. Not to mention the fact that Soulkeeper is NOT revealed to Spectres (though he can reveal himself if he chooses). Also, saying "Why would the soulkeeper even create minions in the first place?" is like saying "Why would the vampire even bite people in the first place?"

3. Nope. Every other night isn't very bad at all, considering most games rarely last more than ten nights. I can make it every three nights if you'd prefer, though.

I honestly feel like you still didn't read through the whole post, especially after reading point 2.
Last edited by Spectre0 on Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:42 am

Ralozey wrote:
Spectre0 wrote:Alignment: Neutral Chaos
I wouldn't do NC on this. I'd rather put it to Neutral Evil as they are only harming the Town.

Spectre0 wrote:Every other night
Being?

But besides that
/support

~Ralozey



I actually want this role to replace vampire, and put it in NC for that main reason. If a lot of people prefer NE I'll move it, though.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Spectre0 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:43 pm

Bumping because poll expresses interest
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Yeeeesss!!!!

Postby RosalinasGalaxy » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:48 pm

I love this concept very much!
: )

I can see why there'd be issues with the revival thing, but I have a proposal:

When the Soulkeeper revives his collected souls, they will all sync together for a win.
So if the Soulkeeper were to die, but the minions could actually lynch the last remaining people, I feel both, the Soulkeeper, AND his minions should win! Because the minions now oppose everyone except for themselves, survivors, and witches, right? So the Soulkeeper has a reason to actively bring souls every night.


I don't agree with the other users complaints. I think this role does serve purpose. You don't want someone to suddenly bring back 5 people who were dead, just to vote against you...
And what if those collected souls has valuable information before they died? They could bring that back to the surface once again, and hold it against you.

I also don't believe this role deserves to be in the neutral evil category. It does not "only hurt town", because now the mafia and vampires have to deal with a sudden bunch of undead folks voting against them. Which can hurt anyone really.
And for its given power, I think it totally deserves to stay in neutral chaos where it belongs.

-As an added bonus, no matter what role you were, you do have a chance at redemption because everyone would want to stay around in hopes that a Soulkeeper gives them another chance at life.

Good work! I really support this idea.


Although I do have some questions/suggestions:

1) If a vampire bites an undead person, do they get converted into vampires since they're both technically "undead"? Or do the bites just kill them similar to how mafia are killed by vampire bites?
2) I think the Soulkeeper should have some form of limited night immunity so that it may
3) The investigative result for the Soulkeeper should be-
Investigator:Medium/Janitor/Retributionist/Soulkeeper
Consigliere: Your target collects the souls of the deceased ones. They must be a Soulkeeper!
4) The investigative result for the Spectres should be very obvious because well...I mean, everyone saw them come back. So their results should be straight forward-
Investigator: Your target is a risen member of the undead. They must be a Spectre!
Consigliere: Your target is a risen member of the undead. They must be a Spectre!
5) Do the risen dead have a Spectre box similar to the vampire and mafia box? If so, what are they labeled as?
6) I don't think it should be roleblock immune. If you can find this particular Neutral Chaos role, I think you have a right to stop him somehow.
7) If he has night immunity, then he should have some form of a limited one. Because for your wins to be successful, you'll need to definitely collect a lot of people. How? Not too sure. Maybe some vests or self-heals and such. Just something to withstand a hit or two.
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Re: Yeeeesss!!!!

Postby Spectre0 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:04 pm

RosalinasGalaxy wrote:1) If a vampire bites an undead person, do they get converted into vampires since they're both technically "undead"? Or do the bites just kill them similar to how mafia are killed by vampire bites?
2) I think the Soulkeeper should have some form of limited night immunity so that it may
3) The investigative result for the Soulkeeper should be-
Investigator:Medium/Janitor/Retributionist/Soulkeeper
Consigliere: Your target collects the souls of the deceased ones. They must be a Soulkeeper!
4) The investigative result for the Spectres should be very obvious because well...I mean, everyone saw them come back. So their results should be straight forward-
Investigator: Your target is a risen member of the undead. They must be a Spectre!
Consigliere: Your target is a risen member of the undead. They must be a Spectre!
5) Do the risen dead have a Spectre box similar to the vampire and mafia box? If so, what are they labeled as?
6) I don't think it should be roleblock immune. If you can find this particular Neutral Chaos role, I think you have a right to stop him somehow.
7) If he has night immunity, then he should have some form of a limited one. Because for your wins to be successful, you'll need to definitely collect a lot of people. How? Not too sure. Maybe some vests or self-heals and such. Just something to withstand a hit or two.



All amazing points, and I'll respond to all of them.

1) Ideally vampire and Soulkeeper shouldn't be in the same match (as I said earlier, I'm hoping something like this replaces vampires). However, I'm leaning towards Spectre dying.
2) (repeat of 7)
3) I'm hesitant to put four roles in one result. It seems a bit much. Still, those results make sense.
4) Agreed.
5) Similarly to the vampire box, it'd put names and say "Spectre". I'm not sure how the Soulkeeper would appear, maybe not at all or maybe just as "Soulkeeper"? I'm hesitant to reveal him to ALL Spectres without his consent (if I do that I may make them depend on Soulkeeper to live) just because gamethrowing may end up an issue.
6) Yep, I was actually almost certain i was going to make that change. Changing it now.
7) Probably a better idea than total immunity. I'm considering it, I'd like others' input

As to Soulkeeper winning with Spectres even if he dies, that may actually be a better solution to potential gamethrowing. I'm considering it.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby RosalinasGalaxy » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:16 pm

Would you mind to put it in sticky form?
Just to make it more organized and all.


Role Card wrote:
Name:

Alignment:

Abilities:

Attributes:

Special Attributes:

Goal:

Win Conditions:

Investigative Results:

Additional Information:

Lore:


I also feel as though the Soulkeeper should be a dark orange-brownish-rust color because it reminds me of the red grim reaper skin.
Soulkeeper
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby PoptartPresident » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:11 pm

Well I would tell you why I like this idea very much, but Rosalina pretty much summed up everything.



I have to admit, for a Neutral Chaos role, this is a pretty neat idea.


/Support
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby sh99er » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:20 am

I love this idea, but to make it easy to visualize type a example of game play. other than that i love this idea.
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby PoptartPresident » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:23 am

BobbyMcHorny wrote:I think that a mass revival would be darn suspicious, and people would quickly kill all Spectres


But the point is to not do that like an idiot early game.
You're trying to hold off until you have a good chunk of collected people, and then you'll bring them all back in hopes to vote everyone else off.

Of course people are going to notice the undead coming back. But what are they going to be able to do about it if the Spectre have the majority?
Nothing really.

Usually late game, there is only 1 killing role left and when 6 people come back from the dead, it's gonna be a toll on you.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper

Postby Spectre0 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:22 am

sh99er wrote:I love this idea, but to make it easy to visualize type a example of game play. other than that i love this idea.


Done! I have to say, I enjoyed typing that up immensely.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby PoptartPresident » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:24 am

Wait.

Can the Soulkeeper take ANY dead roles? Or is it only town.


I feel like it would be better if it was any role that was dead despite its faction, because everyone has a possible 2nd chance at redemption for a victory.
Which, in turn, would also discourage leavers
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby Spectre0 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:34 pm

PoptartPresident wrote:Wait.

Can the Soulkeeper take ANY dead roles? Or is it only town.


I feel like it would be better if it was any role that was dead despite its faction, because everyone has a possible 2nd chance at redemption for a victory.
Which, in turn, would also discourage leavers



Any dead role, of course.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby sunbird1002 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:17 am

This role is pretty good, who, like vampires, aim for a voting advantage. I really like the idea! Cannot think of any other investigator results without completely messing up the current ones, though
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby BS4125 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:13 am

I have a great idea for this role:
This role should be a Mafia Support role however it can only keep a soul for one night.
It can use their ability in the day to say who to talk to. Also, using this, the target will see who the Soulkeeper talks as as 'Medium' so the Soulkeeper can get information from townies by tricking them that they are Medium. The target cannot communicate to the other dead people because it can confirm there is no Medium really there. Hope this helps and you take this into account


Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby PoptartPresident » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:05 am

BS4125 wrote:I have a great idea for this role:
This role should be a Mafia Support role however it can only keep a soul for one night.
It can use their ability in the day to say who to talk to. Also, using this, the target will see who the Soulkeeper talks as as 'Medium' so the Soulkeeper can get information from townies by tricking them that they are Medium. The target cannot communicate to the other dead people because it can confirm there is no Medium really there. Hope this helps and you take this into account


Uuuuuuh
no.


This is a neutral chaos role because if this was a mafia role, it would be ridiculously chaotic
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby Spectre0 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:12 am

BS4125 wrote:I have a great idea for this role:
This role should be a Mafia Support role however it can only keep a soul for one night.
It can use their ability in the day to say who to talk to. Also, using this, the target will see who the Soulkeeper talks as as 'Medium' so the Soulkeeper can get information from townies by tricking them that they are Medium. The target cannot communicate to the other dead people because it can confirm there is no Medium really there. Hope this helps and you take this into account



Nah. Too big of a change.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby RosalinasGalaxy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:13 am

Spectre0 wrote:
BS4125 wrote:I have a great idea for this role:
This role should be a Mafia Support role however it can only keep a soul for one night.
It can use their ability in the day to say who to talk to. Also, using this, the target will see who the Soulkeeper talks as as 'Medium' so the Soulkeeper can get information from townies by tricking them that they are Medium. The target cannot communicate to the other dead people because it can confirm there is no Medium really there. Hope this helps and you take this into account



Nah. Too big of a change.



Yeah. I feel like this isn't a good role for the mafia.
You shouldn't create a whole new team of mafia.


Were here to support a neutral chaos role. Not an absurdly different mafia role.
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Re: My first role idea: Soulkeeper (100+ Views!)

Postby BS4125 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:36 am

RosalinasGalaxy wrote:
Spectre0 wrote:
BS4125 wrote:I have a great idea for this role:
This role should be a Mafia Support role however it can only keep a soul for one night.
It can use their ability in the day to say who to talk to. Also, using this, the target will see who the Soulkeeper talks as as 'Medium' so the Soulkeeper can get information from townies by tricking them that they are Medium. The target cannot communicate to the other dead people because it can confirm there is no Medium really there. Hope this helps and you take this into account



Nah. Too big of a change.



Yeah. I feel like this isn't a good role for the mafia.
You shouldn't create a whole new team of mafia.


Were here to support a neutral chaos role. Not an absurdly different mafia role.

Sorry, it was just an idea I thought of reading this. But I like the role, fits into the neutral chaos alignment very nicely


Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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