Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Old Role Ideas

Should this role be added to the game?

Yes.
80
75%
No. (Explain please)
18
17%
Yes but it needs a few minor tweaks (specify please)
9
8%
 
Total votes : 107

Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:09 pm

Voting is appreciated in order to gain a consensus on the role. Commenting is also appreciated to help improve on the role as-well as to give positive reinforcement to the creator.

Rolecard: Credit goes to TenNoOkami. Read the full post before reading the role-card. *role-card is in the process of being edited* Spoiler: Image
_________________________________________________

Inspired by the Spanish thriller " The Skin I Live In ".

Name: Plastic Surgeon

Alignment: Neutral (Killing)

Summary: A tormented surgeon who is obsessed with putting on the faces of those he kills.

Abilities: Kill someone each night, disguising as them and hiding their will temporarily. You also have an optional limited ability of hiding your target's role temporarily.

Attributes:
- When your target dies , you and your target swap name and character.
- The dead target's will is temporarily unavailable for one day. The next morning, the will will be available for the town(everyone) to see.
- The will of the previous target comes back the next day only if you have killed and disguised as another person.
- You can hide your target's role for a maximum of one day.
- You can only hide a role 2 times.
- You can't disguise as dead mafia or vampires.
- If you and a Disguiser target the same person, neither will disguise as the target.
- If you and a Mafioso or Godfather target the same person, you will not be able to disguise.
- If you kill a mafia member, a vampire, or your target does not die(immune,jailed,healed), the previous will of the dead target will be delayed.
- If you are jailed and have already started killing, the previous will of the dead target will be delayed.
- You can choose not to attack entirely and the will will be delayed.
- The will of the previous target will be delayed as long as you do not disguise again.
- A will can only be delayed for a maximum of 3 days.
- You will know the role of the target you killed even if they were cleaned the same night.

Additional Information: *NEW*
Spoiler: You will have essentially 1 check-box at night, although it will become 2 when you decide to click the checkbox. By this i mean that, when you decide to target to kill someone, a 2nd checkbox will appear beside the 1st checkbox of the specific target, which will give you the option of hiding their role.

When you have used up your 2 role hiding ability, the 2nd checkbox will no longer appear.

Keep in mind, the disguising and will hiding function are automatic with the killing, while the role hiding is an optional ability.


Special Attributes: Night Immune, Bite Immune, Role-block immune.

Wins Conditions:
Wins with Plastic Surgeon, Survivor, Witch
Must Kill Town, Mafia, Vampires, Arsonist, Werewolf, Serial Killer

Unique: No

Goal: Live to frame everyone's face on your wall

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Your target is a Plastic Surgeon!
Investigator: Your target likes tricking people. They are either a Framer, Vampire, Jester, or Plastic Surgeon. (Refer to the "Pros" Section as to the reason)
Consigliere: Your target puts on the faces of those he kills! He must be a Plastic Surgeon!

Pros (Short version):
- "Hybrid" of a Disguiser and Serial Killer with its own unique features. Although the role itself is nothing like the SK and Disguiser in its totality.
- Ability to evade suspicion entirely given the opportunity.
- A Deceptive and dynamic town communication element.
- Investigation result and disguising function indirectly buffs framer and adds more strategy to the game.
- Its disguising function indirectly buffs medium and executioner.
- Skill-based.
- High Skill-Cap/ Potential Capacity

Pros (In-Depth Version):
Spoiler: - This role adds a unique twist/feature to a simplistic function (kill every night)
- This role takes an interesting concept from the most boring and pointless role in the game ( Mafia Disguiser) and puts it into a Neutral Killing concept role.
- It is fast paced - as in if you decide to kill, you generally do not have much room to stop in fear of roles like medium/invest/sheriff that can call you out or if you don't kill before the will reappears. You however have the freedom to lay low and blend in as town if the circumstances seem fit ( for a max of 3 days), adding more choice and flexibility to the role, especially later in game.
- If you are accused and do not get lynched you still have a chance to escape suspicion ( by killing and disguising as another person)
- Adds the thrill of constantly being on the move and evading detection.
- Adds a deceptive and dynamic town communication element to the Neutral Killing role- in terms of taking on new personalities and constantly acting like the person you just killed, may that be for one day or a few.
- Its investigation result indirectly buffs the framer and adds a new dynamic to the role's strategy and impact on the game. This is because its investigation result gives the town the mentality that ' they have 1 day to lynch the plastic surgeon before he escapes'. This mentality will be taken advantage of by the mafia because the result is the same when framed- making the town more impatient and resulting in the town lynching townies frequently, leading to new strategies for both the mafia and the Surgeon in terms of having the town turn on itself. The investigative result also leads the Surgeon and Framer to use each other to get the town, but also creating a plan to eventually gain the advantage against each other.
- It also indirectly 'buffs' Executioner, giving it another claim to lynch a townie because of the boosted importance of the medium and its necessity to come out and accuse the Plastic Surgeon. For example, an Executioner, if the plastic surgeon did not kill the previous night, can say that he is medium and say that the dead told him that the disguised target is 'John Smith' or that he is sheriff/invest and the person came up as Plastic Surgeon. The reason it buffs it is because, although Exec can already do that regardless for other roles, it makes it a lot more believable and is likely to get more townies lynched due to the town paranoia that accompanies the investigative result and nature of the role.
- The role has important indirect buffs/implications to the roles of Framer, Medium and Executioner.
- The role can also , for one day at-least, be able to identify who another PS is if they both target the same person. This may prove very crucial in late-game situations
- Your disguise ability will be tested in late-game situations. The ability to hide a role will grant you opportunities to kill and disguise as confirmed townies, especially townies whose role are unique or whose roles are not possible to have another in the game, as the ability will not draw suspicion towards you and potentially buy you an extra night. Fail to utilize your role hiding ability and you may find yourself disguising as a confirmed unique role, and evidently claiming jailor when the jailor just died, thus getting yourself lynched and losing the game. Play your cards right and efficiently, and you may take advantage of late-game situations like no other NK role, fail to do so, and you may find yourself constantly cornered.
- The role is very skill-based. If played right, its potentially is extremely high, but played wrong, and you may find yourself on the losing end every-time.


Vulnerabilities:
Spoiler: - The investigation result is an auto-detection- however as stated in the pros section, this may be used to your advantage. The investigation result is brutal because the role can escape suspicion entirely given one extra night. There is no ' lets way one more night or lets lynch him tomorrow'. It's either now or never.
- Not deciding to kill or being unable to may make u vulnerable to roles that can speak to the dead, like medium, revived targets, or if you wait too long a will may expose you. Also if you wait too long to kill or are unable to, you may be caught by investigator result and thus your back will be against the wall the following day.
- Investigation result (investigator and sheriff) is auto-lynch 99% of the time if a plastic surgeon is in the game.
- If you fail or choose not to attack and disguise as someone else after you have already disguised, you risk the medium exposing you or a retrbitutionist reviving your target.
- Now there is plenty of ways that the Plastic Surgeon can fail to diguise, which will put him in potentially fatal circumstances if he/she is investigated that night or roles that convene with dead expose it. Here are some of the ways it can not disguise and evidently put its back against the wall:
- The Plastic Surgeon will fail to disguise if the PS kills a mafia,vampire,immune/healed/jailed, if both the disguiser and PS target the same person, and if both PS target the same person
- You also will fail to disguise if you kill the same target as the mafia.
- Now these are quite a lot of possibilities that can lead the Plastic Surgeon vulnerable to an investigator or sheriff.
- Not to mention that if you do not disguise in the 3 day delay limit, the will of your disguised target will expose you.
- An investigative result can also incriminate you on a "false basis". By this i mean that if an investigator investigates your target that you killed and disguised as, and that result is something like vig/vet/mafioso, the investigator will see that the vigilante just died,and so there cant be 2 vigilantes and the player must be a mafioso, or a plastic surgeon in disguise. This is actually a direct counter to the role hiding ability, although requires immense awareness to pull off on the side of the investigator. Which brings me to the last point;
- The Plastic Surgeon's potentially most fatal weakness is killing in late-game situations. In late game situations where alot of the time the roles are limited, the Plastic Surgeon is confronted with having to kill confirmed unique or impossible roles. To elaborate on this quickly, if the PS kills and disguises as a confirmed Jailor, and they see that the jailor just died, they will know the identity of the confirmed jailor is now the plastic surgeon, and this holds true to any confirmed unique role that lives until later in the game. and also early in the game. This also applies to 'impossible roles', confirmed or not, by this i mean that lets say you kill a confirmed doc, but the RT , TP, and Any are now dead..If the doc was confirmed, you get lynched no matter what you say as the same rules apply to the unique roles, and even if they are not confirmed, you cannot claim doctor because it is impossible. These 2 big issues however were remedied by a solution, although a solution that can act as a weakness if not properly executed ;
- The Plastic Surgeon has a limited role hiding ability that only gives him 1 more day to survive. This ability was created to remedy the late game horrors that confronted the Plastic Surgeon. The ability gives him the chance to hide unique or impossible roles so that the PS can still claim that role, but only for one day before it needs to disguise again. The thing is, the ability can only be used 2 times. Meaning that it is up to the user to use those 2 times effectively so that he/she does not get cornered in late-game situations. Use the ability at the wrong time and place, and you may find yourself not able to kill anyone without being caught.
- There is also communicative vulnerabilities, as in the ability to become the person you disguised as vocally. If a person is acting strange or not talking like one's usual self, the town might get suspicious. If you do not effectively embody the personality of your disguise, you may risk drawing suspicion upon you, and in a game where town is already on high-paranoia alert, they will catch on to any possible suspicion. However this can also be a pro, as your acting ability may help you better deceive the town and or draw suspicion away from you however it can also easily incriminate you.
- Also one cannot forget that regardless of its disguise ability, the Plastic Surgeon can be caught by a lookout. The lookout will see that the person who visited its target died, and because it was killed by a plastic surgeon and not a veteran, the lookout will know that the plastic surgeon has taken the disguise of the lookout's target.


Lore:
Spoiler: It is a typical cold, misty and quiet night in the Town of Salem, with the only sounds being the howling winds and the silent fading heartbeats of those being stripped of life. He slowly begins to scalp the unconscious person's skin off his face, whom is currently strapped to a medical stretcher silently clinging to what little life is left in him. After he finishes removing the skin, he carries it to the sink to clean it of blood and then injects the skin with chemicals to plasticize it, making it into a real life mask. He then takes the mask and goes to one of his other lab benches and takes out a small mirror and proceeds to stitch the mask on to his own face. After the mask is successfully merged with his own skin, he walks over to the dead person and takes his will out of his pocket and places it in a secret drawer in one of the rooms. After hiding the will, he walks over to a full sized mirror leaning on the wall, and stares into his reflection. He practices moving his facial features to test out the face mask, and it slowly begins to respond in sync with the original skin. He stays motionless for a few minutes, blood dripping from his hands, and then, after minutes of motionless silence, his mouth starts to slowly move; a grin that is becoming larger and larger, and eyes that are growing wider and wider. He stares into his soul, and the more that he sees of himself, the bigger his grin and eyes get. He sees a monster in the reflection that he is proud to call his own.

However monsters are not born, they are created, and the Plastic Surgeon was not always a monster.

He used to be a renown plastic surgeon, working for one of the top clinics in his town. But everything turned for the worst when his wife was caught in a brutal carriage accident, leaving her face burned entirely. While his wife was in the hospital and refusing to leave her room, he was busy trying to perfect the perfect mask for her to wear so that she can finally come back home to him. To no avail, years go by and he has nothing,but he persisted on and continued to try. His will and spirit was the only thing keeping him going ,and the only things he knew that would never break, or so he thought. He came close repeatedly to being able to craft a real life mask- but the ethical and moral guidelines restricted his practice and made it near impossible to complete. Although he was still not going to give up, he was going to find a way one way or another. At least that is what he told himself until he got a message from the hospital that his wife was staying in. The message informed him that his wife jumped out of the 6th story window, killing herself. It also read that she developed depression a few months back and that her fighting spirit and will to survive diminished along time ago. The surgeon, filled with anger , regret, and sadness, isolates himself in his house for days. After days of staring at his own reflection, he begins to see his wife's burned face instead of his own, and starts to slowly lose his mind. He starts to believe that his wife is haunting him for his failure, and so decides to fulfill her promise by putting on a mask he promised to create onto his own face, the face that his wife has haunted. Committing his first murder, and scalping the person's facial skin, the surgeon descends further into madness. When he sews the victim's face onto his own, he feels a sense of relief...Until he begins to see his wife's burned face again in his reflection. Consumed by madness, anger, and a sense of adrenaline, he continues killing in hopes of erasing the picture out of his mind but also to fulfill an unknown sensation; a sensation corrupted by madness. With the police closing in, he decides to move to the town of salem to continue his killings, in hopes that one day his wife will forgive him for his failure and that her face fade into darkness, but also to fulfill his sensation that has consumed his thoughts when killing, a sensation of pleasure.


Achievements:
Spoiler: Dr. Robert Ledger: Win your first game as a Plastic Surgeon (5TP)
Leatherface: Win 5 games as a Plastic Surgeon (5TP)
Ed Gein: Win 10 games as a Plastic Surgeon (10TP)
Buffalo Bill: Win 25 games as a Plastic Surgeon (25TP)
Finders Keepers: Delay a will for an extra night. (5TP)
Abstained: Disguise as a revealed Mayor. (10TP)
If I Can't Have You, No One Can: Attempt to disguise as the same person as a Disguiser. (10TP)
Corrupted Lancer- Disguise as a Bodyguard after the Mayor reveals. (15TP)
This is Awkward: Delay a will, and have your disguised target be revived by a Retributionist. (15TP)
Lucky: Witness someone who was framed get lynched while you are alive. (15TP)
Disguise-Extraordinaire: Successfully hide 2 unique roles in one game. (20TP)
Tortured Wizard: Disguise as a Retributionist as he is cleaned by the Janitor, the same night he revives someone. (25TP)
Escaping from Alcatraz: Be acquitted and disguise as someone else the next night. (25TP)


Important Notifications:
Spoiler: When you target a mafia or vampire: You have killed John Smith but were unable to disguise as them.

The next morning (broadcast message) after you have killed and disguised as someone: Adam Smith has been found dead in their home. He was killed by a Plastic Surgeon. The town is looking for their will.(you are unable to click on his will) ;

The following morning if a target was successfully killed and disguised: Adam Smith's will has been found and is available for viewing. (a broadcasted announcement- occurs after all the other announcements are completed)

If you have decided to hide the target's role: Adam Smith has been found dead in their home. He was killed by a Plastic Surgeon. The town is looking for their will. Their role is currently under investigation.

The following day(morning) after you hid the role : Adam Smith's role has been identified. Adam Smith's role was Retributionist!

Note: There will be no notification for a will that is delayed. The will however will still be unavailable for viewing. After the 3 day maximum delay period is over, an announcement wil lbe made that the will is finally available for viewing.


A simulated example of how this role works:

Spoiler: Plastic Surgeon / Name : Rhaegar

N1: I kill Adam Locke.
D2: Rhaegar dies and i become Adam Locke. Rhaegar's will is unavailable for 1 day ( the will is actually of adam locke)
N2: My name is now Adam Locke. I decide to kill Edward Bishop.
D3: Adam Locke dies and i become Edward Bishop. Rhaegars' will becomes available. The town realizes that Adam Locke died N1 and that Rhaegar is the Plastic Surgeon. But who is Rhaegar now? Rhaegar now is Edward Bishop but no one knows that because the fake Adam Locke just died as well.
N3: Edward Bishop decides to kill Jesus.
D4: Edward bishop dies and you become Jesus. Adam Locke's will comes back ( the will of Edward Bishop) and town realizes that the disguiser is Edward Bishop...but edward just died and the surgeon has become someone else. Rhaegar is now Jesus but no one knows that.

Now let's pretend you are jailed and the dead disguised target tells the medium who you are.

N4: You are Jesus but no one dies.
D5: Edward Bishop's will is still delayed, but the medium calls the Plastic Surgeon out, informing the town that he spoke to the disguised target. The town then lynch the Plastic Surgeon.

You may want to read it a few times, as it was a bit confusing writing it. But as long as you understand that the target and killer swap role and characters and that the will's of the dead targets are unavailable for one day - you should be able to understand it.


Personally Addressing Negative Misconceptions:
Spoiler: This was originally a response in the comment section that i wanted to share, and have deemed it important enough to have it in the OP for people to read after they read the role. The comments i am going to present are merely for those who share these misconceptions, and to potentially differ others in the future from sharing such views. Keep in mind that the Plastic Surgeon has gotten overwhelming support(for which i am much grateful), and i am only attempting to address the minority to those who have distaste in this role due to these misconceptions that i am going to address below.
_____________________________________________________________________________
I will not understand people who merely brand this role as an 'sk and disguiser' or 'sk and janitor' etc. I actually find it rather insulting, as i would rather receive constructive criticism than derogatory remarks that ignore everything about the role. I have put a lot of effort and time into this role, continually editing it and searching for improvements, so to say this role is merely a copy-paste of different roles is a slap in the face for all the effort i have put in, and everyone who has contributed.

All roles are influenced by current mechanics and functions, and it seems ludicrous to merely paint such a brush over a role, especially this one, with so much detail and innovative features. This role borrows current mechanics and changes them completely, essentially adding its own twists and thus creating something new. Something new does not always have to mean from thin air. It can be something already present, but changed and molded into something that is unrecognizable from its original form.

And the thing is about the disguiser remarks, is that the "mafia disguiser" ability is an absolute embarrassment. The disguising ability is so extremely unique and has immense potential, that not utilizing it to its full potential would be a crime. And that is exactly what I aimed to do with making this role. I have taken an interesting concept in a terribly made role, and put it into something more effective and unique. The Mafia Disguiser does not license the disguising ability, because it frankly does a horrible job at it. The Plastic Surgeon, in a killing-disguising fashion, I would say does such a good job that comparing it to the mafia disguiser in a potentially negative light is completely absurd, for the Plastic Surgeon has done the "disguiser" better than the original.

And now to quickly mention those who share the views that this role is too similiar to the SK and thus claim the role is a 'buffed' or 'nerfed' SK, and also some other additional remarks related to the Serial Killer. The only similarity the Plastic Surgeon has to the Serial Killer is that it has the capability to kill every night. Every other single thing is entirely different. And by every single thing, i mean every single thing. The features, the abilities, the attributes, the impacts, the strategies, the strengths, the weakness, the finer-details, etc and etc. Also keep in mind disguising is just as much a weakness as it is a strength.

The Plastic Surgeon also does not take anything away from the Serial Killer, if you were thinking " well if the PS gets into the game, then whats the point of the SK". The roles are so different that they essentially play differently. Many people may not like to continually change disguises, change their personalities and constant roles claims. Maybe they do not want to have so much pressure put on them later in the game when killing and disguising can prove fatal, given one mistake, and etc and etc. The Serial Killer is a lot more simple, it has a constant role-claim that opens up different strategies, rather than being continually changing and having to deal with an array of other challenges. It also has other unique features like being able to essentially get rid of the jailor, and etc. So due to the playing styles being so different, it will definitely not take away anything from the Serial Killer, nor the Plastic Surgeon.


Buff Idea:

Spoiler: To combat the potential issue that may arise if the Plastic Surgeon disguises as a role like the Investigator or a heavily will-reliant role, and town's plan to catch the PS is to force people to show their wills in hopes to essentially find the Plastic Surgeon through the analysis of the wills, which in this case, may be the PS claiming investigator with no will.

The proposed buff is to allow the Plastic Surgeon to see the will while it is hidden , giving it the opportunity to fake the disguised targets will in order to make its role claim more believable.

This buff idea however adds less skill to the role and makes it easier for the PS to evade suspicion. This may be deemed as an unnecessary buff that makes the role easier and less skillful, for there are other ways to deal with this concern. For example, the Plastic Surgeon can use its hiding ability on a confirmed investigator or even claim a different role when it has killed the investigator, for at the end of the day, the Plastic Surgeon just has to buy time to have the day end, for when night comes, the Plastic Surgeon is a free and new man.

Because of this, I have decided to make the proposed change a "buff idea" , meaning that it is an idea that will be implemented if necessary in the future. The decision for implementation will come when the Plastic Surgeon is tested in the testing grounds, and if the buff is deemed necessary, it will be implemented, if not, it won't.


Thanks for reading and feedback is greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Skulomania on Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:56 pm, edited 126 times in total.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby EternalRage » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:13 pm

?

This is confusing?

Wouldn't town remember the name of the person that died and know that someone took their name, and then find the person with the same name?
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:17 pm

EternalRage wrote:?

This is confusing?

Wouldn't town remember the name of the person that died and know that someone took their name, and then find the person with the same name?


Edit: I added a simulated game-play example to explain the role's disguising function.

Although to answer your question : No.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby EternalRage » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:12 pm

I understand it now, it looks fun and it's creative

/support
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:08 pm

I enjoy it. It can easily escape getting hung, so I think the investigation results should give him a hard time, since He can run away the next day.

Your target delights in others' pain. They are either a Framer, Vampire, or Plastic Surgeon.

This indirectly buffs framer even more as they only have one day to lynch the "plastic surgeon"

And it will force investigators to step out and out themselves, leaving them to the hands of the Mafia, who will take care of that for you, and since it was a framers doing, they'll have lynched a Townie, killed an Investigator, and by night, killed another townie without you lifting a finger. Then, you kill a single Mafia member, and whittle them all down, wary not to kill the framer.

So you do it again, and again until you win. Very nice.

Edit: I noticed the Sheriff sees it as plastic surgeon. Good job, I was going to suggest that.

I suggest standard role block immunity. He can't kill immunes, Sheriff and Invest see him instantly with the better results, so I don't think Escort and Consort should.

I know he can run away, but that's only if he's not role blocked again.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:12 pm

Great point Psycho. You definitively highlighted key direct and indirect impacts that this role has on town and mafia, as well as mentioning a great strategy to go with the role; and accompanied by the constant disguising, involves a dynamic interplay of deception and exploitation of the town and mafia to your advantage- which is something that currently is lacking in neutral killing roles due to its simplicity.

Adding the invest changes.

I will also be summarizing your strategy/impacts that you mentioned into the Pros section or this role.
Last edited by Skulomania on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:17 pm

It should be role block immune, still.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:25 pm

BPsycho2 wrote:It should be role block immune, still.


Yeah i think so too, especially after the invest result changes- and i do not really like the role being defeated by an escort/consort. And it won't really matter if the rb immunity confirms the role- because the surgeon will already have become a different person.

Will be adding role-block immunity.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:41 pm

Thank you. I believe it's about perfect.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:56 pm

Yeah i definitely like the role more with the added changes, and i do not see any flaws or other improvements that can be implemented as of right now, so i am going to make a general poll on the role.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:39 pm

You're welcome.

I've seen a few other NK Disguisers here actually, but none of them are as fleshed out, and descriptive. That's why I put so much effort into it.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby EternalRage » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:40 pm

I think you should shorten the main post, because I don't think people would read that.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:43 pm

They don't have to. The role card is theoretically all they need.

They'd have to read the pros too, otherwise they'd wonder why it was put with framer.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby ToSPlayerre » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:47 pm

love this role

/support
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http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=50878

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NFM 24- Vigilante- LOSS
NFM 25- Janitor- WIN
TFM 27- Vengeful Goon- LOSS
CFM 18- Jordarrian- Loss


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Spoiler: Early:
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:43 pm

BPsycho2 wrote:You're welcome.

I've seen a few other NK Disguisers here actually, but none of them are as fleshed out, and descriptive. That's why I put so much effort into it.


Thanks. I like to put a lot of thought and detail into a role (especially this one) or else i figure what is the point, and it makes it even more awesome when other people put in their time to add more detail into it.

EternalRage wrote:I think you should shorten the main post, because I don't think people would read that.


I rearranged the post so that people read the most important things first , and then I added spoilers at the bottom for information that is not necessarily relevant in order to understand the role's concept and function.

Although thanks for taking the time to read it- as it is pretty long. ( Albeit i feel that every 'legitimate" role idea should be rich in detail) And i am also going to add more to the post sometime later ( achievements, lore etc) but i will try to keep it entertaining ! :P

ToSPlayerre wrote:love this role /support


Thanks, glad you enjoyed reading it.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:26 pm

*Added Achievements and Important Notifications*
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:55 pm

There should be no public notification about the will being unavailable for another day.

If the Plastic Surgeon cannot kill for ANY REASON, the will should just be delayed. Investigators and Sheriffs automatically have a licence to kill him, so Escorts and Jailors shouldn't be able to just find him AND effectively reveal him to the whole town.

Updated investigation results: it seems as though Sifter plans on keeping everything in threes, so some things had to be sacrificed to keep it that way. Meaning jester being added in. Also, better lore.

Your target likes tricking people. They are either a Framer, Vampire,Jester, or Plastic Surgeon.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:08 pm

Alright made the changes.

Invest results updated.

The will will be delayed for one more day if jailed.
Changed the info surrounding the parts with jailor and updated the achievement section.

And to clarify- the will of the person is only delayed for one extra day. So if you fail to kill a target twice in a row, the will will not be delayed again. You're fine with that right? And i suppose that would would work the same if you are jailed or should it be different? Like i mean if you are jailed twice in a row and no plastic surgeon kills, you are most likely lynched regardless.

Also , I think the only time a will should not be delayed is if the Plastic Surgeon decides to not attack entirely- as i feel like a big driving philosophy in this role is that if you begin attacking you cannot just decide to stop and lay low.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:23 pm

It's a NK.

You can't go too hard on it.

I think if it finds the right "mask" it should be able to do nothing and bury the will.

Roles that HAVE to do things are never good.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:33 pm

Hm i suppose, seeing as it is NK and NK's are usually the hardest to win as.

So i suppose you are saying that if the role does not kill anyone after already disguising, that the will of the previous disguised target can be delayed an infinite amount? I guess the reasons for it make sense, although i am a little iffy on the 'infinite' part. Maybe 2 or 3 delays max for each will if needed? I am not sure.

I will give it some thought definitely, (running in-game scenarios in my head and the reasoning behind both, etc) but I would also like if other people can also chime in on this as well to help decide if the will should have a limited amount of delays or if it should be infinite.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:29 pm

I feel like if he gets a townie with a good claim, he can stay as that townie. Investigators will think you're a vampire, so be careful.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:55 pm

I suppose not making any limitations on the amount of delays may make for new deceptive strategies later in the game, ones that may not require the NK role to actually kill, at-least for two to three nights, and isn't something that will discourage people playing the role from killing or anything because staying with one role for too long, especially in the beginning will do nothing but benefit town, especially when no one is confirmed or dying. Also the threat of a medium and retributioner and other such roles may prevent the role from laying low, especially in the beginning and middle parts of the game; for a big pro to this role is that it is always one step ahead of town, but it loses when it allows town to catch up to it.

My conclusion is that the removal of the delay restriction will not do much to change the role but just affect late game strategies, which only adds more depth and skill to the role.

I was hesitant as i just want to make sure that one of the driving principles of the role, which is ' being one step ahead of town' in terms of detection is still present- and as i stated before i do not see no delay restrictions impacting that in any way- but just adding more depth, strategy, skill, and freedom/choice to the role.

Thanks again for the input. Would be nice to have other people's actual feedback to improve on the role more collectively ( if they see improvements) but it does not look like many of them exist. Except for those two people in the voting polls :P

Edit: After changing up the role's info more to make the changes, i feel like the role , rather than fighting itself in terms of the will as initially created, is now killing more out of the fear that there is a medium (or retribuitner if they bring back the person you disguised as)- which like the framer, buffs the medium's role, as well as retributioner, and gives people incentive to stay if they die, especially if they get killed by a Plastic Surgeon. So , it may not be what i first envisioned, but i feel like it is better now, and has a bigger impact on the game.
Last edited by Skulomania on Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:09 pm

I feel like you should always know the role of someone you killed, even if they were cleaned.

If you kill a Retributionist, and he gets cleaned, you have yourself a nice spot, and you have yourself a mafia thinking there's a transporter.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby Skulomania » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:13 pm

Ah good point. Haven't thought of that yet. Yeah i think the role should be able to know who they killed regardless if they are cleaned or not. I'll add it.

Also, bringing a point similar to that, what happens if you and mafia kill the same person, but mafia has a disguiser who also disguised as them. So essentially you and Disguiser are disguising the same target. Do you think one should get priority over the other, and if yes who? Or do you have another idea? I personally do not play Disguiser much, and have never seen 2 Disguisers target the same person- so i am unsure.
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Re: Plastic Surgeon (Neutral Killing)

Postby BPsycho2 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:33 pm

I think it would be best if neither disguised.

If Plastic Surgeon disguised, Disguiser would know and vice versa if they both targeted.
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