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Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:09 pm
by orangeandblack5
Osservatore

Alignment: Mafia Support

Abilities: Watch one person at night to see who visits them or Track one person to see who they visit.

Attributes:
-You can hear private messages.
-If there are no kill capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.
-You can talk with the other Mafia at night.

Special Attributes: Ignores Detection Immunity

Goal: Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Win Conditions:
Wins with the Mafia
Wins with Witches
Wins with Survivors
Must kill the Town
Must kill Serial Killers
Must kill Arsonists
Must kill Werewolves
Must kill Vampires

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Your target is a member of the Mafia.
Investigator: Your target has an extremely keen eye for detail. They must be a Lookout, Osservatore, or a Witch.
Consigliere: Your target is a master at stalking people. They must be an Osservatore.

Additional Notes:
The Osservatore can watch other Mafia members and itself.

F.A.Q.
Woah, did orange just make a role?
Yeah, sure, kinda. Not like a Mafia Lookout is the world's newest concept though. Plus, this is a role idea driven by a suggestion to improve game balance.
A Mafia Lookout? That doesn't seem very useful.
That's where you're wrong. A Mafia Lookout has many practical applications, such as watching a Mayor to find out who is protecting him, watching a likely investigation target to find the Sheriff or Investigator, and watching a Jester to find a Vigilante or Jailor, to name a few of its uses. And that's not even mentioning tracking people or reading whispers.
What is the main purpose of this role?
A Mafia Lookout is a good idea, and giving a Mafia member with the ability to track people the ability to read whispers allows Spy to retain whisper-reading AND gain the ability to track people, as well as making the Mafia role that can read whispers able to use its night ability without letting the Town know it exists. It all works out nicely.
What is this suggestion that the role is a part of?
My Whisper System Overhaul.
Can this role stand on its own, apart from the Whisper System Overhaul?
As it is a solid and balanced Mafia Support role with many uses, yes it can.

Discuss.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:12 pm
by Nellyfox
Not sure why you have hopes that Blackmailer won't be able to read whispers because that's been confirmed.

Just make it an exact Lookout and pair it with Lookout in investigative results. Watching ability > Track. Give it one.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:15 pm
by orangeandblack5
This is part of a larger suggestion, hold your horses Nelly. :lol:

That said, this can still claim Lookout. However, if we give Spy a tracking ability it needs a Mafia role that can also read whispers and track targets, but a Mafia Tracker is really underpowered alone. Hence the Osservatore.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:17 pm
by Nellyfox
Don't post unfinished work.

Spy + Blackmailer.
Lookout + Osservatore.

Pair them up like that. Nothing special really needs to be done.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:28 pm
by orangeandblack5
Nellyfox wrote:Don't post unfinished work.

You didn't read the F.A.Q., did you? :roll:

But fine. Ignore the freaking Investigator result for now. I think I can handle those. :lol:

Any thoughts on the rest of the role? Because I've never really made a role before.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:37 pm
by Nellyfox
I did, but that doesn't really justify it.

I gave my thoughts already. Mafia doesn't exactly need a Tracker role if they have a Lookout.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:37 pm
by BPsycho2
Just for you, friend.

orangeandblack5 wrote:Osservatore

Alignment: Mafia Support

Abilities: Watch one person at night to see who visits them or who they visit. Should just have one target, and Watch+Track.
Attributes:
-You can hear private messages. Remove this. Blackmailer has this.
-If there are no kill capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.
-You can talk with the other Mafia at night.

Special Attributes: Ignores Detection Immunity

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer. uhhh....

Win Conditions:
Wins with the Mafia
Wins with Witches
Wins with Survivors
Must kill the Town
Must kill Serial Killers
Must kill Arsonists
Must kill Werewolves
Must kill Vampires

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Your target is a member of the Mafia.
Investigator: Your target has an extremely keen eye for detail. They must be a Spy or an Osservatore. Your target sticks to the shadows. They are either a Lookout, [Tracker], Witch, or Osservatore.
Consigliere: Your target is a master at stalking people. They must be an Osservatore.

Additional Information:
Much like the Witch and Transporter, the Osservatore has two buttons next to each person's name at night. Clicking the first button will watch that target's house. Clicking the second button will follow them at night. One button for both.

F.A.Q.
Woah, did orange just make a role?
Yeah, sure, kinda. Not like a Mafia Lookout is the world's newest concept though. Plus, this is a role idea driven by a suggestion to improve game balance.
A Mafia Lookout? That doesn't seem very useful.
That's where you're wrong. A Mafia Lookout has many practical applications, such as watching a Mayor to find out who is protecting him, watching a likely investigation target to find the Sheriff or Investigator, and watching a Jester to find a Vigilante or Jailor, to name a few of its uses. And that's not even mentioning tracking people or reading whispers.
Why is this paired with Spy when investigated and given the ability to read whispers?
This role assumes that Spy will gain the ability to follow somebody and see who they visit. It also assumes that Blackmailer is not given the ability to read whispers. If Spy gains tracker powers, remove BM's ability to hear whispers and give it to this, then make it Spy/Oss, Arso/BG/BM.

If BM gets Spy powers, and Spy does not get tracker powers, Your target sticks to the shadows. They are either a Lookout, [Tracker], Witch, or Osservatore.

What is the main purpose of this role?
That will be revealed in a new thread, coming as soon as I get home so I can upload it from my laptop (where it's typed up) to the forums (this was typed up on my phone). Plus a Mafia Lookout is a good idea, and giving a Mafia member with the ability to track people the ability to read whispers allows Spy to retain whisper-reading AND gain the ability to track people. It all works out nicely.
If this is tied to a new thread, why not release it at the same time?
I'm impatient and my phone is almost dead. Plus, I want some early feedback on this role. With that said, I may lock, delete replies to, or delete this thread. I'm not sure how I'm going to format the whole suggestion yet, but it includes at least two new roles (this is the first).

Discuss.


Overall, it's a fine role that would improve the game.

If added, remove whispers from blackmailer, give to this.

As stated time and time again,

Spy gets tracker powers, then Spy/Oss, Arso/BG/BM
Spy doesn't get tracker powers, Spy/BM Oss(NoWhisper)/Lookout/Witch
Spy gets tracker powers and this is not added to the game, BM gets Tracker powers AND blackmailing.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:39 pm
by orangeandblack5
BPsycho2 wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer. uhhh....

memes

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:21 pm
by BPsycho2
Why not make it one button that does both

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:24 pm
by orangeandblack5
I could, but I'm afraid of making it too powerful. A Mafia Lookout alone is quite good. Also tracking seems like a bit much.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:19 pm
by BPsycho2
It's not too powerful. That's like saying the Consigliere is too powerful because he's better than the Investigator.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:30 pm
by Kirize12
I like it, and I like how it's given a more Italian name to fit with the theme of Mafia.

I'd prefer this role to read whispers instead of blackmailed because it's identity cannot be confirmed easily.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:41 am
by orangeandblack5
Kirize12 wrote:I'd prefer this role to read whispers instead of blackmailed because it's identity cannot be confirmed easily.

That's the point. Or at least part of it.

Also added a poll to gather feedback on BPsycho2's suggestion.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:54 am
by WindBlqde
This seems like a fairly good role. I have nothing bad to say about it.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:38 am
by randomguyhavingfun
Wait IGNORES DETECTION IMMUNITY what is that supposed to mean? Detection immunity ( unlesss im seriously wrong ) is a statement that applies to the sheriff it would not affect this role. I dont really think mafia should get a replica of the lookout, it could help but is kinda situatonal as it requiers a consig to unleash its full potential ( that or some hell of a luck or a revealed mayor ). The reading whispers part is a unneeded buff that also makes absolutely no sense.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:01 am
by orangeandblack5
Lookout, Investigayor, Consigliere, and Spy ignore detection immunity. This is no different.

Mafia Lookout is incredibly useful.

It reads whispers because it's better for this role than for Blackmailer and fits in with the rest of my suggestion.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:10 am
by Skulomania
I like it- especially it having tracker and lookout abilities. Most mafia roles are extremely one dimensional and boring, but at the same time a lot of them are usually better versions of town roles- which i believe makes sense because mafia are outnumbered ( example : consigliere). Because of this, i do not see a problem with the mafia lookout being better than its counterpart - and at the same time different. Having a town tracker in its own right seems like a good idea as well that would take nothing out of this role.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:03 pm
by monkeymacman
It would be a decent counter-part to Lookout, however I don't support the Spy change to also be the Stalker role (although it fits with the theme of spy, Spy doesn't need both the ability to read whisper's and the Stalker abilities), so of course I do not support this being able to read whispers and would much rather have Blackmailer be able to read whispers (especially considering his ability has something actually related to whispers). If the town got the "Stalker" Role (not the Spy, as I have said), then this would go good in a category with Lookout and Stalker, as it can claim either of them, which would be useless unless Stalker was a different alignment than Lookout (such as it being town support, but it would seem better for Lookout to be TS and Stalker to be TI). Overall this *could* be a good role, but I don't personally approve of how it's meant to be implemented and of it's passive ability.


Edit (Sort of Off Topic): It is also worth noting that if this was added (and if blackmailer gets his whisper ability which I doubt he won't) then there would be Three Mafia roles with Town Investigative counterparts (Blackmailer/Spy, Consig/Invest, Osservatore/Lookout[/Stalker?]), and only One Mafia role with a Town Support counterpart (Consort/Escort). And because of this it would make no sense for Three Investigative mafia roles to all be considered Support, so mafia Support might need to be renamed Mafia Investigative, and possibly add more Mafia Support roles so that Consort can still be support and Mafia would now have 4 Alignments, Killing, Deception, Investigative, and Support, otherwise make consort investigative (which doesn't really make sense.) I would say that Janitor could be made support as it is the Medium counterpart, buut, it is more deceptive than it is supporting (not that being deceptive doesn't support the mafia). If the Mafia role some people want (Kidnapper, the counterpart to Jailor) was added, that could be Town support (although it's counterpart is Killing, which really wouldn't make sense). This Role creates many possibilities (although they could easily not add any other mafia roles and just make Consort Mafia Investigative because that would be the only alignment with room).

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:30 am
by orangeandblack5
At this point I might change it to one button that both watches and follows a target (Lookout and Tracker powers at the same time). Any strong objections?

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:42 am
by BPsycho2
No





Do it

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:24 am
by Skulomania
BPsycho2 wrote:No





Do it



^ This

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:24 pm
by orangeandblack5
I did it. It now tracks and watches at the same time.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:03 am
by Sman808
Can you watch other mafia members? That could be very useful sometimes.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:52 am
by orangeandblack5
Yes you can.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:21 am
by Sman808
orangeandblack5 wrote:Yes you can.

You might want to add that to the OP, because it is never mentioned.