Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:13 pm

Let xe who is without sin cast the first stone, shall we?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby YamiChan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:35 pm

You're not making any sense...
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby Kirize12 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:02 am

I don't make sense, I make dollars. 8-)

You can't really chide me for going off topic when you started it.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby destruction5033 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:05 am

This role is good but why make it read whispers instead of the bmer? It's one of the worst roles with out this ability and this role is one of the best with it.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby Kirize12 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:37 am

Remove Blackmailer tbh.

A mafia role should read whispers though, and blackmailer is easily identifiable unless it makes like a mafia citizen.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby orangeandblack5 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:58 am

Met, as per usual, brings up some valid points.

I say go through with it and if necessary nerf it. Both TP roles are really good and most Mafia roles are pretty bad, so.
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby Kirize12 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:56 am

TBH there's still WIFOM. Maybe protectives won't target the Jailor, which forces Osservatore to hunt for shitty players while prots actually get the jackpot Jailor.

Also, town's PR's should not be able to act freely. There should be a counter.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby YamiChan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:08 pm

I didn't, though...

Any Mafia role reading whispers is a pain, because it just makes it so no one bothers whispering, making the ability pointless. This was already close to the case once they weakened the Mayor.

Why not just stick with the role's basic ability and leave it at that?
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:11 pm

Whispering doesn't happen in the games I play. Not because of the fear that a Blackmailer exists, but because "Whispering is suspicious"
If the whisper notification were removed, I can guarantee it would happen more often.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:39 pm

Bumping because Jailor/Lookout meta
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby swagmm23 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:33 am

Kirize12 wrote:Remove Blackmailer tbh.

A mafia role should read whispers though, and blackmailer is easily identifiable unless it makes like a mafia citizen.


Yea , no.Just remove his ability to read whispers , i don't think the developers will ever remove blackmailer or any role.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby BeastlyMC956 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:08 am

Spoiler:
orangeandblack5 wrote:Osservatore

Alignment: Mafia Support

Abilities: Watch one person at night to see who visits them and who they visit. Fair

Attributes:
-You can hear private messages. In my opinion it should only be the target you select.
-If there are no kill capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.
-You can talk with the other Mafia at night.

Special Attributes: Ignores Detection Immunity Nothing to say really

Goal: Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Win Conditions:
Wins with the Mafia
Wins with Witches
Wins with Survivors
Must kill the Town
Must kill Serial Killers
Must kill Arsonists
Must kill Werewolves
Must kill Vampires

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Your target is a member of the Mafia.
Investigator: Your target has an extremely keen eye for detail. They must be a Spy or an Osservatore. Only two results?
Consigliere: Your target is a master at stalking people. They must be an Osservatore.

Additional Notes:
The Osservatore can watch other Mafia members and itself.

F.A.Q.
Woah, did orange just make a role?
Yeah, sure, kinda. Not like a Mafia Lookout is the world's newest concept though. Plus, this is a role idea driven by a suggestion to improve game balance.
A Mafia Lookout? That doesn't seem very useful.
That's where you're wrong. A Mafia Lookout has many practical applications, such as watching a Mayor to find out who is protecting him, watching a likely investigation target to find the Sheriff or Investigator, and watching a Jester to find a Vigilante or Jailor, to name a few of its uses. And that's not even mentioning tracking people or reading whispers.
Why is this paired with Spy when investigated and given the ability to read whispers?
This role assumes that Spy will gain the ability to follow somebody and see who they visit. It also assumes that Blackmailer is not given the ability to read whispers.
Why isn't this role paired with Spy and Witch then?
In order for this to work Witch would need to be able to read whispers. A whisper-reading Witch seems a bit over the top. So it's not paired up with the Spy and Osservatore.
What is the main purpose of this role?
A Mafia Lookout is a good idea, and giving a Mafia member with the ability to track people the ability to read whispers allows Spy to retain whisper-reading AND gain the ability to track people, as well as making the Mafia role that can read whispers able to use its night ability without letting the Town know it exists. It all works out nicely.
What is this suggestion that the role is a part of?
My Whisper System Overhaul.
orangeandblack5 wrote:-Town roles can no longer whisper.
So with this only evils can send whisper or am I understanding this wrong. Cause then this roles attribute to read whispers will become a useless feature to add.

Can this role stand on its own, apart from the Whisper System Overhaul?
As it is a solid and balanced Mafia Support role with many uses, yes it can.

Discuss.


Overall it is a decent role.
Favorite Roles: Framer, Amnesiac, Necromancer, Tracker
Least Favorite Roles: Survivor, Executioner, Mafioso, Vigilante

My Roles:
Spoiler: Town:
Witch Doctor - Town (Support)

Mafia:
Luminary - Mafia (Support)

Coven:
N/A

Neutral:
N/A

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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:31 am

Why is this a buffed Watcher?
RNG is never good for any strategy based game. Please learn the definition of what that means, especially if you're one of the people constantly defending it.

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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:09 am

Mafia doesn't need a Lookout with Blackmailers ability to read whipsers.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:05 am

BasicFourLife wrote:Why is this a buffed Watcher?

Good question, and if I was familiar with the Watcher off of the top of my head I'd tell you.

Soulshade55r wrote:Mafia doesn't need a Lookout with Blackmailers ability to read whipsers.

Counter-point

Mafia doesn't want Blackmailer to read whispers.
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Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby ManateeDude » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:55 am

Hmm, the problem with watcher is that it is as 1 sided as LO. I think Mafia Investigators should have some buff over Town Investigators ex: Consig > Investigator... compared to.. Watcher=Lookout.... or Osservatore > Lookout
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:55 am

That's one of the reasons why it can read whispers.
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Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby ManateeDude » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:56 am

orangeandblack5 wrote:That's one of the reasons why it can read whispers.

???
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:02 am

Osservatore is a Mafia-aligned Lookout, that can also read whispers.

That's what makes it better than Lookout.
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Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby Mystoc » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:38 am

its tracker and LO and blackmailer all in one role, why
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:41 am

orangeandblack5 wrote:Osservatore is a Mafia-aligned Lookout, that can also read whispers.

That's what makes it better than Lookout.

There is zero reason for it to read whispers, also the Tracker buff is random
RNG is never good for any strategy based game. Please learn the definition of what that means, especially if you're one of the people constantly defending it.

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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:58 am

I mentioned in the Role Idea Discord thread that I wanted the Watcher in the game because it would counter the Jailor/Lookout meta. Obviously, the Osservatore would be even better at that. The only problem (the only role that's ever a problem when it comes to Mafia roles): Spy. It will reveal that a Mafia member visited the Jailor. Any Lookout that was watching them will reveal who visited and the Osservatore will be quickly lynched. We still need that rework for Spy and then we need this role in game. But I don't think this role should be able to watch itself.
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby ManateeDude » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:00 am

Fm's agent and watcher/osservatore would do a good job at countering D1 Jailor. But we need to get rid of spy, it is unbalanced and easily confirms non-mafs.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:11 am

I agree with removing Spy

I always wanted it to be a tracker, but they just added that to Coven

Next best thing is probably Exacerbated's Scientist (parity cop)
Last edited by orangeandblack5 on Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Osservatore (Mafia Support)

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:49 pm

Exacerbated's* and fuck parity cop. No reason for it to be in the game when sheriff is.

Current Spy, with the mafia visiting ability removed, is fine.

IMO, I don't think any role should be reading whispers.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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