Auditor (Neutral Evil)

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Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:21 am

Role Name: Auditor

Role Alignment: Neutral Evil

Attributes: May only use ability 3 times, not charged a use if an audit fails for any reason.

Abilities: If you target any role with a limited use ability, you will drop their usage to 0. Examples include: Self-heals, self-vests, executions, revives, Vigi bullets, alerts (this will work even during an alert, you will still die), cleans, disguises and forges, Mayor's votes will drop to 1 if targeted after revealing. Target is roleblocked, regardless of the success of the audit, this can be done even after using all 3 audits.

Goal: Survive to see the Town lose the game

Wins with: Everyone that isn't Town

Special Attributes: Conversion Immune, Audit Immune, Roleblock Immune, Auto-Vest, Unique

Investigative Results: Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious
Investigator: Your target is manipulating, they must be an Escort, Consort or Auditor
Consigliere: Your target has immense wealth, they must an Auditor

Additional Information (comments): While this role has dependency, it nerfs the 4 most powerful town roles (Jailor, Veteran, Retri and Mayor). It also makes people rush their actions (a Retri fearing an audit would use his revive early, Vigi is more likely to make a bad kill if he fears an audit).

The Original Auditor:
Spoiler: This role is named after the role of the same name from SC2 Mafia, which this game branched off of. The role turned any Town into Citizens (a Town role with no abilities), Mafia into Mafiosos (which are the same here, except they aren't unique) and Neutral Benigns and Evils into Survs with Witch win cons. Auditing yourself would turn you into a Citizen that couldn't vote and didn't count for majority. The role obviously wouldn't fit with the other roles found so it was dropped, along with other high-risk, high-reward roles, such as Transporter and Witch. Unfortunately, the lack of Citizen, the addition of Retributionist and the buff Jailor and the dropping of many of those high-power scum roles in this version increased Town's win rates to the point of imbalance. Auditor would discourage public claims, while being easier to use than Witch. This addition of this role will nerf Town considerably, which is a much needed balance.
Last edited by Megalomancer on Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:41 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Jerme » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:28 am

This suggestiosn seems interesting, I like it. I have a few questions:
- Does a survivor lose also their vests or is this the only role which does not lose their charges?
- Does a Mayor regain their votes when the Auditor dies?
- What do you think about this Consigliere result: "Your target removes items when visiting. They must be an Auditor"?
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:30 am

Jerme wrote:This suggestiosn seems interesting, I like it. I have a few questions:
- Does a survivor lose also their vests or is this the only role which does not lose their charges?
- Does a Mayor regain their votes when the Auditor dies?
- What do you think about this Consigliere result: "Your target removes items when visiting. They must be an Auditor"?


-I'll make a poll for that
-No, it's supposed to mimic a converted Mayor, which allows claimspace (if both Auditor and Vampire are in game). All audits are permanent.
-Sure
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby lucas8411 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:08 pm

This role is really good, the only negative thing about this if there are no limited roles (and Mayor). The ability is useless but besides that you did a good job
IF YOU'RE READING THIS, I WANT TO SAY THAT I LEFT THE FORUMS.

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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:43 pm

lucas8411 wrote:This role is really good, the only negative thing about this if there are no limited roles (and Mayor). The ability is useless but besides that you did a good job


I might as well:

Doctor
BG
Vig
Vet
VH
Jailor
Mayor
Retri
Janitor
Forger
Disguiser
Survivor

With that many roles, and the entirety of TK, TProt and MD roles, except Framer (and TPower if that catches on), there's going to be at least one available role, and at least 3 in Ranked.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby lucas8411 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:05 pm

I'm not talking about ranked, I'm talking about custom mode/rapid mode. Well come to think of it, it can always be usefull to side someone so maybe I don't have to complain that much.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby oliy » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:32 am

It doesn't do anything to VH :\
Oh no, not the Disguiser!
TBH this role has too few downsides for it's upsides.
Also, at least Witch can somewhat protect itself from killers, this cannot.
Finally, you just need to roleblock specific roles, so you're useless near the end of the game.
It's eh.

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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:10 am

oliy wrote:It doesn't do anything to VH :\
Oh no, not the Disguiser!
TBH this role has too few downsides for it's upsides.
Also, at least Witch can somewhat protect itself from killers, this cannot.
Finally, you just need to roleblock specific roles, so you're useless near the end of the game.
It's eh.

matthew8367 wrote:(Potentially: Roleblock on audit, Demotes VH to Vigi with a bullet)


Now what do you think?
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Mroz4k » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:18 am

Actually not a bad role.

Its a Neutral Evil role, thats for sure. I mean, it screws everyone but the Neutrals (well, it does screw over Survivor too, which is not such a bad idea). And it has the Witch´s win conditions, so it encourages to work against the Town. Can put a hurt on Mafia, same as Witch.

Sure, the abilities are limited and the role has the role dependency on the rolelist, but it can still win, just played like a Goon. And its existence is putting some balance to the game, actually making the Neutral Killing a little bit more likely to win as well... I am all up for this role.

Just the name is weird. I mean, the description has nothing to do with auditors, makes me wonder if you even know what Auditors are and what they do. Anyways thats kind of besides the point.

Also should most definitedly be a Unique role.

One thing where it doesnt make much sense in general is Mayor. I dont see the point to take away that powers. I mean, in this way, the role is kind of a hard-counter to Mayor abilities, and those abilities are not even such a problem for the game... its more of a confirmability thats the problem.
I´d say that there should be no effect on the Mayor, or if, it should make Mayor unable to reveal. Maybe tie them down in a way that Mayor cannot reveal for as long as the Auditor is still alive, or something like that. Would be better way to go about that.

Survivors SHOULD lose all the Vests. Puts something to worry into the mind of a Survivor, makes them think twice before revealing. That makes winning as Survivor more challenging, and gives more space to evil roles as whole.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:33 am

Mroz4k wrote:Actually not a bad role.

Its a Neutral Evil role, thats for sure. I mean, it screws everyone but the Neutrals (well, it does screw over Survivor too, which is not such a bad idea). And it has the Witch´s win conditions, so it encourages to work against the Town. Can put a hurt on Mafia, same as Witch.

Sure, the abilities are limited and the role has the role dependency on the rolelist, but it can still win, just played like a Goon. And its existence is putting some balance to the game, actually making the Neutral Killing a little bit more likely to win as well... I am all up for this role.

Just the name is weird. I mean, the description has nothing to do with auditors, makes me wonder if you even know what Auditors are and what they do. Anyways thats kind of besides the point.

Also should most definitedly be a Unique role.

One thing where it doesnt make much sense in general is Mayor. I dont see the point to take away that powers. I mean, in this way, the role is kind of a hard-counter to Mayor abilities, and those abilities are not even such a problem for the game... its more of a confirmability thats the problem.
I´d say that there should be no effect on the Mayor, or if, it should make Mayor unable to reveal. Maybe tie them down in a way that Mayor cannot reveal for as long as the Auditor is still alive, or something like that. Would be better way to go about that.

Survivors SHOULD lose all the Vests. Puts something to worry into the mind of a Survivor, makes them think twice before revealing. That makes winning as Survivor more challenging, and gives more space to evil roles as whole.


It's based on the role from SC2Mafia with the same name, which turns any Town into Citizens, Mafia into Goons and Neutral Benigns into Survs with Witch win cons. Also, if I made it unique, RBing on audit would be needed, at least in my opinion. The Mayor thing now allows for Disguisers and Vampires to get away with not having 3 votes when they change the Mayor, it gives it claim space (it also nerfs Jailor and Vigi further, as audited Mayor will do the Auditors job for them in that cause, plus kill the Mayor)
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby oliy » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:03 pm

matthew8367 wrote:
oliy wrote:It doesn't do anything to VH :\
Oh no, not the Disguiser!
TBH this role has too few downsides for it's upsides.
Also, at least Witch can somewhat protect itself from killers, this cannot.
Finally, you just need to roleblock specific roles, so you're useless near the end of the game.
It's eh.

matthew8367 wrote:(Potentially: Roleblock on audit, Demotes VH to Vigi with a bullet)


Now what do you think?

Makes it worse

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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby BPsycho2 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:41 pm

I personally think the Audit should only affect town roles because auditing is a financial evaluation, and the Mafia have the money to prevent being Audited.

Also, Survivors aren't a part of the town that is BEING audited. Same thing goes.

Auditor is a part of the IRS (likely) and the town can't pay it off (If the Mayor can't pay the Doctor enough, then everybody's poor) So that's why he's not on their team, and taking people's things is something the IRS tends to do if you can't pay them.

If the Mafia realizes that there are 4 Vamps, 1GF and 1 Janitor, a bunch of investigators, and one claims to know who the GF and Janitor are, they're going to kill you so that they don't have to worry about losing the cleans.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:03 pm

@oliy Can you explain please?

@BPsycho That is in no way balanced. Witch can also deal damage to Mafia, more than Auditor can.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby oliy » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:05 pm

oliy wrote:It doesn't do anything to VH :\
Oh no, not the Disguiser!
TBH this role has too few downsides for it's upsides.
Also, at least Witch can somewhat protect itself from killers, this cannot.
Finally, you just need to roleblock specific roles, so you're useless near the end of the game.
It's eh.

That's why it makes it worse.

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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby BPsycho2 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:44 pm

matthew8367 wrote:@oliy Can you explain please?

@BPsycho That is in no way balanced. Witch can also deal damage to Mafia, more than Auditor can.


Wouldn't it make sense in that The Auditor works with money?
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:03 pm

BPsycho2 wrote:
matthew8367 wrote:@oliy Can you explain please?

@BPsycho That is in no way balanced. Witch can also deal damage to Mafia, more than Auditor can.


Wouldn't it make sense in that The Auditor works with money?


I'm going to have to say it. Balance>Lore
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby BPsycho2 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:14 pm

I know that, but

(I'm not gonna win this, am I?)
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Kirize12 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:22 pm

Still very situational and I dont like it.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:29 pm

BPsycho2 wrote:I know that, but

(I'm not gonna win this, am I?)


No, because a role needs to affect more than just Town.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby BPsycho2 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:34 pm

But why audit the survivor? He has enough to worry about.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby TehLonelyNinja » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:45 pm

I like this role, it definitely adds another challenge for the town. For a Consig result, it could be "Your target is a corrupt tax agent. They must be an Auditor!" and for Invests, it could be "Your target seeks justice. They could be a Sheriff, Executioner, or Auditor." (Ret would be coupled with Medium)
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Truecore » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:24 pm

Since you guys were talking about survivors being audited...
___________________________________

Role Name: Scumbag

Role Alignment: Neutral Chaos

Attributes: None

Abilities: None

Goal: Survive to see the Town lose the game

Wins with: Everyone that isn't Town

Special Attributes: None

Investigative Results: ??

Additional Information (comments): Cannot be randomed. Can only appear as a result of a neutral role being audited. (In sc2 mafia, if a neutral role gets audited, it becomes a scumbag. Usually, being a scumbag is REALLY REALLY BAD.)
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:30 pm

Truecore wrote:Since you guys were talking about survivors being audited...
___________________________________

Role Name: Scumbag

Role Alignment: Neutral Chaos

Attributes: None

Abilities: None

Goal: Survive to see the Town lose the game

Wins with: Everyone that isn't Town

Special Attributes: None

Investigative Results: ??

Additional Information (comments): Cannot be randomed. Can only appear as a result of a neutral role being audited. (In sc2 mafia, if a neutral role gets audited, it becomes a scumbag. Usually, being a scumbag is REALLY REALLY BAD.)


Um, please no. This Auditor is different from the SC2Mafia one. An audited Surv merely loses its vests, it doesn't become... that.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Shastaa » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:47 pm

I like this idea. Town of Salem needs more subversive-type roles with easier winning conditions but lesser impact than the NK's + Mafia.
I'm seconding the roleblock on audit; the role needs to be a potential nuisance to the NK's + Mafia, just like the SC2 role.

Also, I'd suggest changing the color of the Auditor to something like this, since it's business suit color.
The investigation result should be
-Your target works with documents, they could be a Framer, Forger, or Auditor.
Alternatively:
-Your target has secret information, they could be a Spy, Blackmailer, or Auditor.
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Re: Auditor (Neutral Evil)

Postby Megalomancer » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:48 pm

What are thoughts on this potential change: An audited role can not activate any day abilities. This would likely replace the votedrop on Mayor.
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