Executioner Rework

Old Role Ideas

Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:18 pm

Reworking Executioner to make it so that it doesn't mechanically favor one side over the other, thus allowing it to be an NB that's actually good. (this also used to be a role back when i was terribad with balance)

Role: Executioner

Alignment: Neutral Benign

Summary: You are a retired judge and a fanatic for public execution.

Goal: Get your target lynched at any cost.

Win Conditions: As long as you achieve your goal:
You win with the Town.
You win with the Mafia.
You win with Survivors.
You win with Witches.
You win with Serial Killers.
You win with Arsonists.
You win with Werewolves.
You win with Electricians.
You may spare anyone else.

Has Night Ability: Yes

Has Night Immunity: Yes

Abilities: Rule on a target at night.

Attributes:
•You are unkillable at night.
•If your target was lynched the day after you ruled on them, you have won the game.
•If your target was killed at night the night you ruled on them, you lose your night immunity for that night and the next. •You may not pick the same target twice.
•If everyone left alive has been picked, you will commit suicide.

Special Attributes: Night Immune, Detection Immune, Redirection Immune

Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious.

Investigator: Your target is full of themselves. They must be a Sheriff, Godfather, or Executioner.

Consigliere: Your target is obsessed with lynching. They must be an Executioner!

Notifications: "You have decided to pass a rule on Kirize12 tonight." - Executioner choosing a target.
"You have successfully gotten your target lynched!" - Executioner lynching their target.
"Your target was killed. You lie in shame, awaiting the end." - Executioner target gets killed and Executioner loses night immunity.
"Determination fills your body with a driving force that gives you form! You can no longer be killed!" - Executioner regaining their night immunity.
"You lie in shame, awaiting the bitter end for eternity. Nothing can save you now." - Executioner targeting everyone alive and getting no one lynched.
"You cannot live like this anymore. You have hung yourself on the gallows! You have died!" - Executioner losing and suiciding at the end of the night.

Backstory: The Town of Salem is known for it's love of organized lynches. Every day, 15 villagers come out of their houses, greet each other, and attempt to find the mafia and other evildoers. (will finish later)

Achievements:

Hangman - Win one game as Executioner

Guillotine - Win five games as Executioner

Firing Squad - Win ten games as Executioner

Whore of Babylon - Win twenty-five games as executioner

Quick and Painless - get your target lynched the first lynching day

Hung Jury - have every living player vote guilty on your target

Last of Us - have your target lynched in the final three (not sure about this one)

Should it be changed so that it has to lynch two people to win?
Last edited by Kirize12 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:33 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Lynchpin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Totes » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:42 pm

"A slightly modified executioner."
My main problem is summed up in this one statement straight from you. It's too similar to the Executioner for me to see it in ToS.
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Re: Lynchpin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:55 pm

Totes wrote:"A slightly modified executioner."
My main problem is summed up in this one statement straight from you. It's too similar to the Executioner for me to see it in ToS.


Not really TBH.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Lynchpin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Totes » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:00 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
Totes wrote:"A slightly modified executioner."
My main problem is summed up in this one statement straight from you. It's too similar to the Executioner for me to see it in ToS.


Not really TBH.

I really need to read things more than once...

Now that I have read it again, I can say this is a pretty unique and well balanced role, like most of your roles tend to be. Your Electrician even got a shout-out on oliy's PSA on how to make good roles for being balanced and unique.
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Re: Lynchpin (Neutral Evil)

Postby kookeekwisp » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:39 pm

no.

just no
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Kirize wrote:
kookeekwisp wrote:Dont single out Arso cause it kills slower!
I didnt know you could contradict yourself in one sentence
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Re: Lynchpin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:42 pm

kookeekwisp wrote:no.

just no


Why no?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:23 am

And so I have turned this abomination into a rework so Executioner can be NB with Survivor, Amnesiac, and Jester. I'm bad with theoretical balance so I have no idea how this would work in practice but it's a start.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby kookeekwisp » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:36 am

Kirize12 wrote:And so I have turned this abomination into a rework so Executioner can be NB with Survivor, Amnesiac, and Jester. I'm bad with theoretical balance so I have no idea how this would work in practice but it's a start.

I didn't say no because it's an Executioner ripoff, it's because you made it too easy to win as! Now it's a Survivor with infinite vests & can just choose accused people to win instantly. There's a reason your target is chosen for you.

The only changes Exe needs is knowing the targets role, and losing if target dies. (all other neutrals lose instantly when they die anyways, so why do you get 2 chances?)
Favorite roles: Framer Survivor Trapper VampireHunter Consigliere Mafioso Escort Lookout Mayor Arsonist Disguiser Veteran Bodyguard Plaguebearer Medusa Blackmailer Executioner Doctor Crusader Vigilante Vampire PotionMaster Poisoner Transporter Jester Jailor Consort Ambusher Werewolf SerialKiller Hypnotist CovenLeader Pirate Godfather Sheriff Forger ??? Retributionist Amnesiac Investigator Necromancer Spy GuardianAngel Tracker Psychic HexMaster.

Kirize wrote:
kookeekwisp wrote:Dont single out Arso cause it kills slower!
I didnt know you could contradict yourself in one sentence
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:37 am

Executioner is too scum-biased for NB but not anti-town so it can't be NE.

Exe gets that fallback because it's a lot harder to keep someone else alive than to keep yourself alive.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby kookeekwisp » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:27 pm

Kirize12 wrote:Executioner is too scum-biased for NB but not anti-town so it can't be NE.

Exe gets that fallback because it's a lot harder to keep someone else alive than to keep yourself alive.

It's super easy when you know how. Make them act crazy, and call them Jester. When the time's right, investigate them when NE dies & give town 2 reasons to Lynch them.

Also, HOW is it not anti-town? It can prove one innocent, and wants them dead at all costs!
Favorite roles: Framer Survivor Trapper VampireHunter Consigliere Mafioso Escort Lookout Mayor Arsonist Disguiser Veteran Bodyguard Plaguebearer Medusa Blackmailer Executioner Doctor Crusader Vigilante Vampire PotionMaster Poisoner Transporter Jester Jailor Consort Ambusher Werewolf SerialKiller Hypnotist CovenLeader Pirate Godfather Sheriff Forger ??? Retributionist Amnesiac Investigator Necromancer Spy GuardianAngel Tracker Psychic HexMaster.

Kirize wrote:
kookeekwisp wrote:Dont single out Arso cause it kills slower!
I didnt know you could contradict yourself in one sentence
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby BS4125 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:55 pm

kookeekwisp wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Executioner is too scum-biased for NB but not anti-town so it can't be NE.

Exe gets that fallback because it's a lot harder to keep someone else alive than to keep yourself alive.

It's super easy when you know how. Make them act crazy, and call them Jester. When the time's right, investigate them when NE dies & give town 2 reasons to Lynch them.

Also, HOW is it not anti-town? It can prove one innocent, and wants them dead at all costs!

It's not anti-town it only kills 1 town member and it's not the only one that is responsible for lying the target, it is usually the Exeuctioner and a bunch of other town members who vote guilty. Jester is also not anti-town and more with town than the Executioner, the Jester kills himself not another townsfolk and doesn't do town any harm at all but can't go into NB because it persuades the town to do wrongdoings.

If you were to categorise these two roles they'd fit into an alignment like Neutral Mischief

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:00 pm

Jester most certainly can go into NB, and should be in NB.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby BS4125 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:08 pm

I like your interpretation on a Neutral Benign Executioner, it's very balanced with the 'need to pick someone who is going to get lynched but not killed' however I noticed something, if you find a killer then you could target them because:

1) It can't be killed at night (unless Mafioso)
2) It will most likely be lynched by town during the game

However it is unlikely that an Executioner will know about this anyway

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:10 pm

If it wins, then it won't be lynched. Plus you can only target each person once.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby BlazinIce » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:21 pm

Great an easier undertaker.
Is ruling on a target one use?
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Spotte » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:26 pm

The point of Neutral Evils are to be generally against the majority to give the Minorities the upper hand during gameplay, while Neutral Benigns are there to balance things out and side with whichever party is more likely to assist them in their own goals, evening the playing field.
This rework doesn't work purely because the Executioner like the Witch is written to be AGAINST the town, however it doesn't stop them from working with the town if the town agrees to lynch their target. While the Jester is a wild card Evil that can side with anyone or no one.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby WindBlqde » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:36 pm

I like how you add Electrician and remove Vampire from the who you win and lose with thingymabober every time.
Pretty cool idea, though. Creative and I think it'll work.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:37 pm

BlazinIce wrote:Great an easier undertaker.
Is ruling on a target one use?

You may only rule on each target once.

This is different than Undertaker. Your target must be lynched.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:38 pm

Spotte wrote:The point of Neutral Evils are to be generally against the majority to give the Minorities the upper hand during gameplay, while Neutral Benigns are there to balance things out and side with whichever party is more likely to assist them in their own goals, evening the playing field.
This rework doesn't work purely because the Executioner like the Witch is written to be AGAINST the town, however it doesn't stop them from working with the town if the town agrees to lynch their target. While the Jester is a wild card Evil that can side with anyone or no one.

The point of Neutral Evil is to be scum support. All NE's should have the goal "Survive to see town lose the game."

Executioner is not completely anti-town, but is also a terrible neutral benign.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby kookeekwisp » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:22 pm

Kirize12 wrote:This is different than Undertaker. Your target must be lynched.

lol
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Kirize wrote:
kookeekwisp wrote:Dont single out Arso cause it kills slower!
I didnt know you could contradict yourself in one sentence
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby BlazinIce » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:47 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
BlazinIce wrote:Great an easier undertaker.
Is ruling on a target one use?

You may only rule on each target once.

This is different than Undertaker. Your target must be lynched.

It's the same for Undertaker, except:
A: The death of your target counts as a loss
B: You don't bury
C: You can select targets once
D: Undertaker is harder
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:14 pm

BlazinIce wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:
BlazinIce wrote:Great an easier undertaker.
Is ruling on a target one use?

You may only rule on each target once.

This is different than Undertaker. Your target must be lynched.

It's the same for Undertaker, except:
A: The death of your target counts as a loss
B: You don't bury
C: You can select targets once
D: Undertaker is harder

A. It's not a loss, it's a setback.
B. Bury is not a status effect.
C. And that's what makes this equal to Undertaker. Undertaker can afford to slip up. If this messes up, it won't get another chance.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Seruth » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:48 am

Kirize12 wrote:
Spotte wrote:The point of Neutral Evils are to be generally against the majority to give the Minorities the upper hand during gameplay, while Neutral Benigns are there to balance things out and side with whichever party is more likely to assist them in their own goals, evening the playing field.
This rework doesn't work purely because the Executioner like the Witch is written to be AGAINST the town, however it doesn't stop them from working with the town if the town agrees to lynch their target. While the Jester is a wild card Evil that can side with anyone or no one.

The point of Neutral Evil is to be scum support. All NE's should have the goal "Survive to see town lose the game."

Executioner is not completely anti-town, but is also a terrible neutral benign.

That is why there are rumors(the devs said something like this, btw) about a new witch faction. The Witch faction would get Survive to see town lose the game, and NE would be mostly, but not completely, not town-sided.(exe, jester)
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:33 am

If a witch faction gets added BMG is screwed up the ass.

And if you think Town-sides neutrals are a good thing then IDK what to say. Why don't we just balance those roles properly and lump them all into NB?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Executioner Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:39 pm

Friendly reminder that doing this along with making Jester NB allows us to make NE purely anti-town, and until more anti-Town roles are added the NE in Ranked can be replaced with a confirmed Witch.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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