VH Overhaul + Actress (Mafia Support)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Do you think these roles are balanced?

Seeker and Actress are balanced.
1
25%
Seeker is balanced, Actress is not.
3
75%
Actress is balanced, Seeker is not.
0
No votes
Both of these roles are unbalanced.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 4

VH Overhaul + Actress (Mafia Support)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:17 pm

We all know that the Vampire Hunter is busted as it can win in a 4v1 against Vampires. To have it no longer as a major Vampire counter, Vampire Hunter has been renamed to Seeker and has been turned into a regular Town Killing. Like the Vigilante, it can appear without Vampires.
With the Vampire Overhaul we have tested, I think this would be a nice addition, since the Vampire Hunter rework there was turned down.

Seeker - Town (Killing)
Summary: You are a fierce sharpshooter working for the Town.

Attack: Powerful
Defense: None
Unique: No
Priority: 5

Abilities:
    - You may mark a player during the day.
    - You may watch a player's house at night.
Attributes:
    - You may not watch yourself.
    - You will shoot one marked player if they visit your target.
    - If you shoot another Town member you cannot mark or shoot for the next two days.

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: You could not find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.
Investigator: Your target could be a Seeker, Actress, Survivor, Amnesiac, Medusa, or Psychic.
Consigliere: Your target follows their prey. They must be a Seeker.

Notifications:
"You have decided to mark (player)."
"You have decided to watch (player)."
"You shot a marked player visiting your target!"
"You have shot a member of the Town, you cannot shoot for another (#) nights."

"You were shot by a Seeker!"
"They were shot by a Seeker."

Mechanics:
    - Marked players have a symbol next to their name.
    - Marks last two nights.
    - You will not shoot players that have been marked by other Seekers.
    - If multiple marked players visit your target, you will only shoot one.

Priority of who would be shot first:
Spoiler: VK (Vampire Killing), VC (Vampire Conversion), VS (Vampire Support), VM (Vampire Manipulation), MK, NK, CE, TK, MD, NE, TI, NC, MS, TS, TP, NB


Since Seeker would be instantly confirmed by an Investigator in Ranked, I have decided to add a Mafia role with this post.

Actress - Mafia (Support)
Summary: You are a theatre virtuoso working for organized crime.

Attack: None
Defense: None
Unique: No
Priority: 1

Abilities:
    - You may visit someone at night, copying an ability from their visitors.
Attributes:
    - You will learn the roles of the players that visit your target.
    - You will be able to use one ability from one of the players you learn the roles from the next night.
    - You may not use killing abilities.
    - You may not use the same ability twice in a row.

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Your target is suspicious!
Investigator: Your target could be a Seeker, Actress, Survivor, Amnesiac, Medusa, or Psychic.
Consigliere: Your target impersonates others for their own satisfaction. They must be an Actress.

Notifications:
"You have decided to visit (player)."
"Your target was visited by a (role)!"
"Choose an ability to use tonight." [A UI would pop up, listing all of the possible roles it can use that night]

Mechanics:
    - Your regular ability cannot be deceived by Douses or Hexes.
    - You can copy from other Mafia roles.
    - You cannot use the abilities from the following roles: Psychic, all TK, Trapper, Mayor, Medium, Retributionist, all MK, Hex Master, Medusa, Necromancer, Poisoner, all NB, Executioner, Jester, all NC, all NK, all VK, all VC, Pijavica, Nelapsi
    - The following roles can be used but have certain restrictions: Bodyguard (can only use a vest), Crusader (will not kill one visitor), Transporter (cannot transport the Actress), Coven Leader (cannot control someone into the Actress, will not attack their target), Potion Master (can only heal or reveal), Witch (cannot control someone into the Actress)
    - You will gain Roleblock Immunity when using the ability of an Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Witch/Coven Leader.
    - You will gain Control Immunity when using the ability of a Transporter or Potion Master.
    - The other roles not mentioned can be used as normal.
Last edited by WaveAqualei on Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:38 am, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Actress (Mafia Support) + VH Rework

Postby Brilliand » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:33 pm

I could've sworn I saw a role identical to this "Seeker" brought into the rolepoll under a different name.

It doesn't seem Vampire-related at all.
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Re: Actress (Mafia Support) + VH Rework

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:37 pm

Brilliand wrote:I could've sworn I saw a role identical to this "Seeker" brought into the rolepoll under a different name.

It doesn't seem Vampire-related at all.

It's not really related to them anymore, you're right. I disagree with heavy counters (such as Doctor screwing over Poisoner, or Vampire Hunter in general). I made Seeker have Vampires at the top of the kill-priority list, that way it's a small counter but not one that would be too unbalanced.
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Re: Actress (Mafia Support) + VH Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:53 pm

I dont see seeker as a VH rework but rather as its own role (also its a TK version of duelist but that doesnt matters)

Actress does seem intresting but I have some problems
1. It would suck hard in rank because very little town roles do have benefit as mafia roles
2. It has rb immunity because....idk


Rb immunity shouldnt be given just because, but to prevent nonsensical results
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Re: Actress (Mafia Support) + VH Rework

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:57 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:I dont see seeker as a VH rework but rather as its own role (also its a TK version of duelist but that doesnt matters)
I renamed the post to "VH Overhaul", but I'm assuming you think it's fine other than that?

Actress does seem intresting but I have some problems
1. It would suck hard in rank because very little town roles do have benefit as mafia roles
2. It has rb immunity because....idk


Rb immunity shouldnt be given just because, but to prevent nonsensical results

Actress can still use the abilities of Mafia Deception and other Mafia Support roles, along with the Witch. It can also protect itself with the Doctor/Bodyguard abilities, along with using the Doctor/Crusader abilities to protect other Mafia.
I gave it Roleblock immunity because it can use the abilities of an Escort/Transporter/Consort/Witch/Coven Leader.
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Re: Actress (Mafia Support) + VH Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:08 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:I dont see seeker as a VH rework but rather as its own role (also its a TK version of duelist but that doesnt matters)
I renamed the post to "VH Overhaul", but I'm assuming you think it's fine other than that?

Actress does seem intresting but I have some problems
1. It would suck hard in rank because very little town roles do have benefit as mafia roles
2. It has rb immunity because....idk


Rb immunity shouldnt be given just because, but to prevent nonsensical results

Actress can still use the abilities of Mafia Deception and other Mafia Support roles, along with the Witch. It can also protect itself with the Doctor/Bodyguard abilities, along with using the Doctor/Crusader abilities to protect other Mafia.
I gave it Roleblock immunity because it can use the abilities of an Escort/Transporter/Consort/Witch/Coven Leader.


It still feels to reliant on the setup, which is exactly the same problem that current retri has

Also about the immunity, just give it the immunities of the role it copies (except of maye detection immunity)
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Re: Actress (Mafia Support) + VH Overhaul

Postby Brilliand » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:22 pm

I like to separate immunities into "action immunities" and "passive immunities". Roleblock immunity would be an "action immunity", i.e. an immunity that the Escort night action has, while basic defense would be a "passive immunity" i.e. an immunity you have regardless of what ability you're using or whether you're even doing anything.
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Re: Actress (Mafia Support) + VH Overhaul

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:52 pm

Brilliand wrote:I like to separate immunities into "action immunities" and "passive immunities". Roleblock immunity would be an "action immunity", i.e. an immunity that the Escort night action has, while basic defense would be a "passive immunity" i.e. an immunity you have regardless of what ability you're using or whether you're even doing anything.

Makes sense, I’ll edit that.
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Re: VH Overhaul + Actress (Mafia Support)

Postby MR60G0LD » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:46 am

I like the seeker role, it requires actual skill to use effectively and can confirm suspicions. I don't see it as too weak or too strong, in the right hands it can be hell for killing roles but there is clear counterplay so I'd say it is a well balanced role, really nice job.

The actress on the other hand is a bit iffy for me, I like the idea but I feel they are too weak, their ability makes it a gamble, not only with getting something useful but also not dying in the process and that is for a 1 time use ability that you aren't even guaranteed to get as someone else needs to visit that target. Maybe if they weren't suspicious to sheriff (as they are an actress) it would give a small buff but currently for me it is a bit too weak, satisfying to pull off but weak.
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Re: VH Overhaul + Actress (Mafia Support)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:35 pm

MR60G0LD wrote:I like the seeker role, it requires actual skill to use effectively and can confirm suspicions. I don't see it as too weak or too strong, in the right hands it can be hell for killing roles but there is clear counterplay so I'd say it is a well balanced role, really nice job.

The actress on the other hand is a bit iffy for me, I like the idea but I feel they are too weak, their ability makes it a gamble, not only with getting something useful but also not dying in the process and that is for a 1 time use ability that you aren't even guaranteed to get as someone else needs to visit that target. Maybe if they weren't suspicious to sheriff (as they are an actress) it would give a small buff but currently for me it is a bit too weak, satisfying to pull off but weak.

Actress is able be act like other Mafia roles at half the speed, making it more of a JOAT role than anything. I think it might be a bit too weak but with testing I believe others might have ideas to buff it.
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Florae Faction
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