Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

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Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

Postby Obituary » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:20 am

Role Name: Retributionist


Role Alignment: Town Support


Abilities:
-You may raise a dead Town member and use their ability on a player.
-You may perform a cleanse on a evildoers corpse converting him into a town counterpart


Attributes:
-Create zombie from dead-true hearted Town players
-Use their abilities on your second target
-Each zombie can be used once before it rots


Additional Information:
Retributionist can now use all town roles as has always been stated in their role abilities and attributes "Create zombie from dead-true hearted Town players"
-Veteran can be sent onto a player and will shoot anyone who visits that player
-Mayor can be used to cast a single vote onto a player which will be shown at the start of the following day
-Medium can be used to senace a single dead player and talk to them the following night
-Transporter can be used by selecting the Transporter and simply selecting two players as the Transporter would
-You may select a Jailor and target a player, that player will be jailed the following night. The ability will fail if that player dies.

Retributionist now has an ability to convert an evildoers' role into their town equivalents, their abilities will then be able to be used the following night.

Serial Killer, Arsonist, Juggernaut, Mafioso, Godfather etc etc can all be converted into either a Vigilante or Veteran
Consigliere into an Investigator
Blackmailer into a Spy
Potion Master into a Doctor
Executioner into a Sheriff



Role Name: Jailor


Role Alignment: Town Killing


Abilities:
-At night prepare a Jail cell
-During the day select one person to Jail


Attributes:
-You may anonymously talk with your prisoner
-You can choose to execute your prisoner
-You may execute twice
-The jailed target can't perform their night ability

Additional Information:
-Removal of Jailor armour.
-Jailed targets can be targeted. No more "Your ability failed because your target was jailed"
-Removal of guilt. Don't punish Jailors for making one mistake, instead nerf the other aspects of Jailor and make Jailor a useful killing role instead.
-Limited to two executions. Jailor should be on par with his town equivalents, the Veteran and Vigilante. Make Vigilante the impactful killing role by removing guilt and allowing Vigilante to shoot thrice and reduce how often the Jailor can kill, making them a weaker killing role compared to Vigilante.

Role Name: Vigilante


Role Alignment: Town Killing


Abilities:
-Choose to take justice into your own hands and shoot someone.



Attributes:
-You may shoot three times



Additional Information:
Complete removal of guilt. Guilt is a bullshit concept which was mostly implemented to deal with trolls and gamethrowers. Don't punish players for making one mistake, allow Vigilante to be a useful role which can deal with those scummy players. Vigilantes should be on par with other Town killings. Why should Jailor be able to escort/doctor/execute someone and never die of guilt. Vigilantes should be the dominant TK role that helps town. Theres a terrible meta in the current game where all TK games Vigilante gets lynched because of Witch. Witch should not be a guaranteed role
Last edited by Obituary on Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

Postby ak521 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:51 pm

I disagree with all of these. Jailor is meant to be powerful and the head of town. Vigi should have stake instead of rando shooting. Retri doesn't need a buff
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Re: Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

Postby Benn3 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:40 pm

I like a lot of these changes, although there's some I don't.

Retributionist:

-You may restore a cleaned players corpse


Medium should be the one to do something like this, not Retri. I think a better change is to allow them to use Cleaned corpses, however they will not know what their ability is until they receive results that night. This also hard counters Janitor too much, which Medium also already does.

-You may perform a cleanse on a evildoers corpse converting him into a town counterpart


I actually really like this, but it should definitely take a night to do so.

-Veteran can be sent onto a player and will shoot anyone who visits that player


I support this, but it'd be more balanced if you could only put the Veteran on yourself.

-Mayor can be used to cast a single vote onto a player which will be shown at the start of the following day


DEFINITE no. This hard confirms the Retributionist which is not a good addition at all.

-Medium can be used to senace a single dead player and talk to them the following night


I like this but would you be able to raise another corpse while using the Medium's ability? Using a Medium wouldn't take place until the following night due to the nature of the role which is why I'm asking this.

-Transporter can be used by selecting the Transporter and simply selecting two players as the Transporter would


Fully support this, there's no reason why Retri shouldn't be able to use Transporter.

-You may select a Jailor and target a player, that player will be jailed the following night. The ability will fail if that player dies.


Definite no. This not only hard confirms the Retri but is also overpowered in general.

Jailor:

-At night prepare a Jail cell
-During the day select one person to Jail


There's already been a rework that delays jailing by a night, but I don't really think that's necessary. Just remove Jail Armor and only make them role block if they execute.

-You may execute twice


Idk how I feel about Jailor only having 2 executes. I'd rather Vigi have 2 with no guilt.

-Removal of Jailor armour.
-Jailed targets can be targeted. No more "Your ability failed because your target was jailed"


I agree with this but it'd have to be tested for me to form a more full opinion on it.

-Removal of guilt. Don't punish Jailors for making one mistake, instead nerf the other aspects of Jailor and make Jailor a useful killing role instead.


Eh, not sure how I feel about this. 2 executes + removal of guilt could be a fine combo but it works better with Vigilante.

-Limited to two executions. Jailor should be on par with his town equivalents, the Veteran and Vigilante. Make Vigilante the impactful killing role by removing guilt and allowing Vigilante to shoot twice and reduce how often the Jailor can kill, making them a weaker killing role compared to Vigilante.


I agree that Vigilante should only have 2 bullets but no guilt(will still throw his gun away but will not die), and like I said earlier, 2 exes + no guilt at all for Jailor could be fine ig.

Vigilante:

-You may shoot three times


You said earlier in the Jailor rework that Vigi should only have 2 bullets + no guilt, so why does he have 3? Remove a bullet, but also remove the committing suicide factor and give him the current Jailor guilt.

Complete removal of guilt. Guilt is a bullshit concept which was mostly implemented to deal with trolls and gamethrowers. Don't punish players for making one mistake, allow Vigilante to be a useful role which can deal with those scummy players. Vigilantes should be on par with other Town killings. Why should Jailor be able to escort/doctor/execute someone and never die of guilt. Vigilantes should be the dominant TK role that helps town. Theres a terrible meta in the current game where all TK games Vigilante gets lynched because of Witch. Witch should not be a guaranteed role


There shouldn't be a COMPLETE removal of guilt. Just make it so they can't use their gun anymore, but remove the committing suicide. If you FULLY remove guilt, it'd BUFF the Witch and they'd be able to use every bullet he has. Also, that "terrible meta" doesn't exist, only when there's only a Witch and Vigilante alive, so they lynch the Vigi to end the game. Vigi's shouldn't outright claim vigi, they should claim TK. That usually keeps witches off of them because they may be a Vet, unless they find them on accident. Witch being a guaranteed role is an issue with the Ranked list though, not Vigilante themselves.
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Re: Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

Postby Obituary » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:27 am

Medium should be the one to do something like this, not Retri. I think a better change is to allow them to use Cleaned corpses, however they will not know what their ability is until they receive results that night. This also hard counters Janitor too much, which Medium also already does.


Good point, removing it. I don't know about using cleaned corpses though it could make things chaotic and unbalanced, especially if they use a cleaned Vigilante.

The ability to convert an evildoer into a town counterpart should be enough


Idk how I feel about Jailor only having 2 executes. I'd rather Vigi have 2 with no guilt.


Jailor and Vigilante are apart of the same subcategory - Town Killing. They should be equally balanced and to do that, Vigilante needs to have more kills than Jailor. Vigilante should be the dominant force-full killer and by that they need to be able to shoot thrice and not die of guilt when they make an error or get Witched.

You said earlier in the Jailor rework that Vigi should only have 2 bullets + no guilt, so why does he have 3? Remove a bullet, but also remove the committing suicide factor and give him the current Jailor guilt.

Ah that was an honest mistake, I did mean 3 bullets.

ak521 wrote:I disagree with all of these. Jailor is meant to be powerful and the head of town. Vigi should have stake instead of rando shooting. Retri doesn't need a buff


Retri is useless most games, enough said

Jailor should not be powerful and head of the town. Most people don't like the Jailor meta. It's terrible to balance a game around one role, can't you see that?
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Re: Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

Postby Obituary » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:25 am

bump this, thoughts guys?
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Re: Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:05 pm

Removal of guilt is a bad idea, it is there to punish bad plays (and also to reduce the impact of throwers I think)

Vigilante should not suicide after shooting town, but they shouldnt be able to keep shooting either
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Re: Retributionist Buff + Jailor Nerf

Postby Obituary » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:13 pm

G
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