Framer Rework

[EtherealEnder]

You are a skilled counterfeiter who manipulates information.

Alignment: Mafia (Deception)

Attack: None - Defense: None

Unique Role: No

Abilities:
Select one target to frame at night.
Frames last one night.

Attributes:
Framed players appear as the Framer to the Sheriff, Investigator.
Framed players will appear in the Psychic's Evil vision if it is an odd night and will not be in the Good vision if it is an even night.
Framed players appear to visit the same target as the Mafioso to the Lookout and Tracker.
Framed players have their visit(s) appear as a Mafia visit to the Spy.
The Framer's visit is not seen by the Spy.

If there are no kill capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.

-Investigative Results-
Unchanged

Specifications:
Spoiler: For the LO interaction, LO cannot see their real visit. Framer scrubs the real visit and fully replaces it with the visit to Mafia.
For the Spy interaction, the Framed player's REAL visit is seen as an MV. Framer's visit is not. Makes it harder to spot a framed player!
A Framed player is not necessarily The Evil. The Framed player is ALWAYS in the Evil Psychic vision, and NEVER in the Good Psychic vision. The Framed player MAY be The Evil, but not necessarily. When Psychic rolls for an evil player, it includes the Framed player as one of those potential evils. If it ISN'T The Evil, it WILL be one of the other two.

[ak521]

support.

[Dimethyltryptamine99]

Sheriff is already a lot weaker than it should be, especially with Disguiser in the game when it can only find 2/14 people sus. And now if a Sheriff gets targeted it's impossible for him to find any tangible results.

This role does have a lot higher chance to cause a mislynch, which I do like. Seeing as there's a good chance to Frame a Sheriff (especially since they usually claim d2) and make them find someone as sus. And then the next day the town can argue about if hes Exe or not and then potentially lynch a real Sheriff and then his Framed target gets executed at night. This wouldn't happen on Mafiascum or old Epic Mafia, but people on Town of Salem are dumb and don't understand most of the roles anyway.

Although this rework could be useful, I certainly don't like how much it could weaken Sheriff. One of the issues with this game is that Sheriff is just a role that's useless most of the time and is easy for any evildoer to claim.

The Lookout and Spy frames involves too much RNG so huge /no support on those

Psychic still RNG but the role is RNG anyway so it's a decent frame.

Psychic and Spy need overhauls imo and it isn't worth creating or reworking roles that have synergy with Spy/Psychic until they're fixed.

Also the roles useless if it doesn't target an invest role. But I guess seeing as most invest roles claim D2 then that shouldn't be a problem.

[EtherealEnder]

Sheriff is already a lot weaker than it should be, especially with Disguiser in the game when it can only find 2/14 people sus. And now if a Sheriff gets targeted it's impossible for him to find any tangible results.

This role does have a lot higher chance to cause a mislynch, which I do like. Seeing as there's a good chance to Frame a Sheriff (especially since they usually claim d2) and make them find someone as sus. And then the next day the town can argue about if hes Exe or not and then potentially lynch a real Sheriff and then his Framed target gets executed at night. This wouldn't happen on Mafiascum or old Epic Mafia, but people on Town of Salem are dumb and don't understand most of the roles anyway.

Although this rework could be useful, I certainly don't like how much it could weaken Sheriff. One of the issues with this game is that Sheriff is just a role that's useless most of the time and is easy for any evildoer to claim.

The Lookout and Spy frames involves too much RNG so huge /no support on those

Psychic still RNG but the role is RNG anyway so it's a decent frame.

Psychic and Spy need overhauls imo and it isn't worth creating or reworking roles that have synergy with Spy/Psychic until they're fixed.

Also the roles useless if it doesn't target an invest role. But I guess seeing as most invest roles claim D2 then that shouldn't be a problem.

would it be better if the framer could choose which person would be missed/seen? for example they could choose that number 5 specifically would be seen or missed. also framer is already useless if it doesn't target someone else's target, so I guess this rework just makes it so that it might have to do a bit of townreading.

[Lewisfaisal4869]

+1

[syjfwbaobfwl]

the base idea is good but imo it should keep the idea of framing the target instead of the TI, otherwise its super strong

the other option is to give limited uses but I dont like that

[EtherealEnder]

just reworked the rework (hah) so that it is no longer rng dependant. the framer must now decide what they aim for the frame to do and plan accordingly with the mafia.

[EtherealEnder]

update 11/1/21. now affects psy

[Salocin481]

Why does SK appear sus to Sheriff if the SK is framed?

I'm not understanding why the Sheriff wouldn't be flipped to see SK as inno

[EtherealEnder]

Why does SK appear sus to Sheriff if the SK is framed?

I'm not understanding why the Sheriff wouldn't be flipped to see SK as inno

oh it seems im incapable of typing. i meant to change that example so that framer cant target maf but it SEEMS i wrote it wrong. fixed

[EtherealEnder]

instead of flipping sheriff results, it just makes the framed look sus just like current framer

[Crona111]

Why wouldn't the framer want to make SK look sus? It's not like SK wins with mafia

[EtherealEnder]

Why wouldn't the framer want to make SK look sus? It's not like SK wins with mafia

this is why I changed it yes

[mustiboi999]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

[Crona111]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

Not everyone owns Coven. Framer and Hex Master are two different roles from different factions. Removing Framer is a dumb idea because Mafia just loses a role.

[mustiboi999]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

Not everyone owns Coven. Framer and Hex Master are two different roles from different factions. Removing Framer is a dumb idea because Mafia just loses a role.

Like maybe make a rolle similar to Hex Master that can kill and frame

[EtherealEnder]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

Not everyone owns Coven. Framer and Hex Master are two different roles from different factions. Removing Framer is a dumb idea because Mafia just loses a role.

Like maybe make a rolle similar to Hex Master that can kill and frame

mafia doesn't need another killing role.

[mustiboi999]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

Not everyone owns Coven. Framer and Hex Master are two different roles from different factions. Removing Framer is a dumb idea because Mafia just loses a role.

Like maybe make a rolle similar to Hex Master that can kill and frame

mafia doesn't need another killing role.

Like it could help it make it more powerful
Coven has a a few killing roles like PM, Posioner and Medusa killing roles so why not Mafia

[EtherealEnder]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

Not everyone owns Coven. Framer and Hex Master are two different roles from different factions. Removing Framer is a dumb idea because Mafia just loses a role.

Like maybe make a rolle similar to Hex Master that can kill and frame

mafia doesn't need another killing role.

Like it could help it make it more powerful
Coven has a a few killing roles like PM, Posioner and Medusa killing roles so why not Mafia

rvery single coven role can kill. thats their quirk. they are a killing faction. mafia focuses more on deception and lies than pure firepower

[mustiboi999]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

Not everyone owns Coven. Framer and Hex Master are two different roles from different factions. Removing Framer is a dumb idea because Mafia just loses a role.

Like maybe make a rolle similar to Hex Master that can kill and frame

mafia doesn't need another killing role.

Like it could help it make it more powerful
Coven has a a few killing roles like PM, Posioner and Medusa killing roles so why not Mafia

rvery single coven role can kill. thats their quirk. they are a killing faction. mafia focuses more on deception and lies than pure firepower

But a new Mafia killing role wouldn’t hurt now would it

[mustiboi999]

Honestly it’s better to just remove Framer
Hex Master is way better

Not everyone owns Coven. Framer and Hex Master are two different roles from different factions. Removing Framer is a dumb idea because Mafia just loses a role.

Like maybe make a rolle similar to Hex Master that can kill and frame

mafia doesn't need another killing role.

Like it could help it make it more powerful
Coven has a a few killing roles like PM, Posioner and Medusa killing roles so why not Mafia

rvery single coven role can kill. thats their quirk. they are a killing faction. mafia focuses more on deception and lies than pure firepower

Honestly maybe your right
I think your framer buff is the best idea

[Crona111]

Mafia doesn't need a hexmaster. Coven, while being a faction that can kill, has a lot of trouble doing so without the necronomicon. Mafia should be able to consistently kill, but without any "special" abilities. As for Framer, it is a very good role on paper, but it's issue lies in the fact that it only affects 2/5 Town Investigatives, which is a horrible percentage. Also, it relies on luck to frame the same person a sheriff/investigator is investigating a lot of the time. It doesn't need to kill to be more powerful, it just needs to be able to consistently frame.

[EtherealEnder]

4/5/22: heavily edited and simplified as per the TG's Balancer Team decisions

[WaveAqualei]

Bumping this, but it would be nice if Framer also fooled CL and PM.

[MysticMismagius]

Bumping this, but it would be nice if Framer also fooled CL and PM.

wait what
so HM fools Consig but Framer doesn't fool PM?
That is cursed