Benn3 wrote:As we know, the current Mafia faction is very flawed. Mafioso is a duplicate of the Godfather, that only exists so that if one or the other gets role blocked, the other can kill. Framer and Disguiser are also roles that the community complains about constantly. Here are many reworks/buffs for most of the roles along with some overall changes to the faction. I should also give credit to This Post as I used a decent amount of ideas from there.
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Overall Changes
Spoiler:
Ambusher
Spoiler:
The point of the message is to prevent this, going into obviusly protected targets isnt a thing you should allow
Disguiser
Spoiler:
the only people who complain about disg are people who dont know how the role works and/or are bad at playing it
Framer
Spoiler:
Forger
Spoiler:
Sure
Janitor
Spoiler:
Sure
Hypnotist
Spoiler:
Benn3 wrote:As we know, the current Mafia faction is very flawed. Mafioso is a duplicate of the Godfather, that only exists so that if one or the other gets role blocked, the other can kill. Framer and Disguiser are also roles that the community complains about constantly. Here are many reworks/buffs for most of the roles along with some overall changes to the faction. I should also give credit to This Post as I used a decent amount of ideas from there.
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Overall Changes
Spoiler:
Ambusher
Spoiler:
Disguiser
Spoiler:
Framer
Spoiler:
Forger
Spoiler:
Janitor
Spoiler:
Hypnotist
Spoiler:
SilverCruz wrote:"The only people who complain about Disguiser are the people who don't know how it works."
Oh, I know how it works.
Godfather declares an attack against William Phips.
Mafioso echoes the attack against William Phips.
Consigliere decides to check William Hobbs.
Disguiser chooses to disguise Consigliere as Cotton Mathers.
A member of the Mafia visited William Phips last night!
A member of the Mafia visited William Hobbs last night!
A member of the Mafia visited Consigliere last night!
A member of the Mafia visited Cotton Mathers last night!
Now Spy instantly knows that there is a Disguiser because four visits is impossible without one, and furthermore that one of the visits, excluding Phips if he was knocked out, must be a member of the Mafia so the Disguiser has succeeded in giving the Spy a night of being a Psychic.
Disguiser is broken. It can be partly fixed with no effort by making it completely invisible to Spies. That way even if a Spy deducts that there is a Disguiser by the Mafia never appearing to visit more than one target per night, they can't look through the previous visits to see who it is. It's still a hard counter that relies on other roles to exist in order to do literally anything, but it's not as bad as Framer in that respect.
And regarding Ambusher, the problem is that the Town is already chock-full of overpowered roles. Jailor is outright overpowered, Bodyguard is outright overpowered, Transporter is outright overpowered, Doctor is also pretty damn unfair by extension of the Jailor Meta giving it an obvious target with no possible way for it to be punished without the Mafia immediately losing a head unless they just get lucky and all the Doctors, Bodyguards, and Lookouts decided "Well the Jailor claim is too obvious so I'll do something else", which you can't rely on. It's fine for Ambusher to be overtuned as long as the Town stays overtuned because it's more important to stop the Jailor Meta than it is to try to keep the Mafia balanced, nevermind that it's not because it gets four faction members, two of which do the same thing and only exist to stall deadlocks, and of those four the Framer, Hypnotist, and Disguiser exist, with Framer being famous for being an ineffective jobber and Hypnotist and Disguiser sharing the common trait of being able to sell themselves out by just doing what they're apparently supposed to be doing. The Mafia has garbage roles that severely impact them. A Medium in a scenario where everyone immediately leaves as soon as they get knocked out is a garbage role too, but the Town has a thick enough roster that it can deal with that more easily than the Mafia can deal with having two damn Framers.
Benn3 wrote:Ok, I nerfed the Ambusher so that they only see who visits if they go on Cautious, instead of them seeing 2 people even when they are deciding to ambush anybody.
But besides, they aren't as OP as it seems. Take Ranked as we have it right now. Jailor comes out D1, and every LO and Town Protective is on them. Ambusher is the only one that can really stop this, or until the Town Protective and Lookouts are revealed, but in that case, the Town Protects will start chaining together, one going on the Jailor, and another on them, etc. Plus, there's no way you'll consistently get 2 kills per night unless you get very lucky, and the role is hard countered by Mediums and in the reworked version's case, Lookouts. The reason why I made them immune to Veterans, Medusas, etc, is because logically, the Ambusher is supposed to sneak around their house and target visitors, not directly walk up to their door like a Mafioso. In the case of a Trapper, I meant that the traps wouldn't be able to be triggered by Ambushers(in the case of a Trapper seeing that they visited, not because it kills them) since again, logically it doesn't really make sense. Maybe though, Trappers would be able to see an Ambusher ambush somebody that went on their trapped target with a hypothetical camera in the trap? Trapper isn't in Classic ranked though so they don't really have much relevance here anyways.
As for the Hypnotist, I've edited it so that your ability fails on jailed targets instead of giving the "somebody tried to roleblock/transport you" message.
SilverCruz wrote:All I know is that I once had a round as a Spy where I saw more Mafia visits than is normally possible and that meant that there was a Disguiser.
SilverCruz wrote:Oh, that explains it.
Still stupid that this can occur at all, and still stupid that if you do anything as a Disguiser and there is a Spy to see your visits then you will sell out any other Mafia members that you've visted the moment you drop, though. Also still stupid that it's a role that relies on other roles existing to do anything.
SilverCruz wrote:I'm inclined to figure that "bug" wasn't a bug, and instead was one of the EXCEEDINGLY RARE CASES of an Escort actually doing something useful that isn't straight deadlocking.
As for the other post...
Consort - Roles which can be targeted are guaranteed and varied.
Blackmailer - If there are no talkative players, the Town has bigger problems than a Blackmailer.
Janitor/Forger - The Mafia makes dead people all the time.
Consigliere - What the hell does "hidden" even mean in this case?
And as for it being the Spy, sure! But how would it be harmful to just make the Disguiser totally invisible to Spies as a short-term solution?
SilverCruz wrote:I mean Hypnotist is broken as-is anyway because it can instantly sell itself out through conflicting feedback. I don't think too strongly on the two visits at once, I guess broadly I favor it to piss on Transporter's shoes, but it needs to at least cancel its visit if completing it would cause a feedback conflict.
Cabohhh wrote:Um, the Disguiser thing is inside the Ambusher spoiler.
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