Meet the Engineer

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Meet the Engineer

Postby Blasterus » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:27 pm

Role Name:
Engineer

Role Alignment:
Town (Protective)

Abilities:

Every night, you can choose to deploy a robot to protect your target, giving them Basic Defense.
If you choose to protect no one, your robot will upgrade permanently.
Version 2.0: The robot's shield has been upgraded and will now provide Powerful Defense.
Version 3.0: The robot has been equipped with a camera, will now tell you who was the attacker.
Version 4.0: The robot has been equipped with weapons and will now kill the attacker, dealing a Powerful blow.

Attributes:

You may only defend yourself once, with the current upgrades.
You will know if your target is attacked.

Goal:

Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Win Conditions:
You must kill the Mafia
You must kill Serial Killers
You must kill Arsonists
You must kill Werewolves
You must kill Witches
You win with the Town
You win with Survivors
You may spare anyone else.

Open to any feedback!
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Re: Meet the Engineer

Postby ak521 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:58 pm

In scope of the Ranked Role list, this is a buffed Doctor. Powerful attacks are uncommon except by the WW of course which is not prevalent in ranked. Hence, this behaves just like a Doctor till Version 3.0 -- again, in scope of the Ranked role list.
Regarding lore, the game takes place in the late 1600's / early 1700's, so robots are non existent. This is something I feel is important to keep up with.
This role is easy to understand and has good potential as I like the idea of waiting to heal or powering up. I believe this is in fact a better version of TPs, and so should even replace a role like Doctor or Bodyguard. However there's no "real" problem with either of those roles, and this role as explained above behaves like a buffed Doctor.
Regarding Version 3.0, I don't like this. I also don't like how this will protect against all attackers, that is really strong.

I think there's some work that you can do to fix up this role OR instead propose a complete overhaul of Doctor or Bodyguard.
Regardless I love the idea.
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Re: Meet the Engineer

Postby runningwiththepower » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:14 pm

I also really love this idea for the reasons AK stated above

I think its a good balance---do you stay on 1 person for the whole game or do you try to move around? its an interesting dilemma for the Engineer and forces them to think strategically :D

/support
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Re: Meet the Engineer

Postby alex1234321 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:20 am

I think this role could work well but needs some fleshing out.

In a Ranked environment there aren't many powerful attacks so versions 1 and 2 are almost the same. You can argue that version 1 is actually stronger since the only powerful attacks are Bodyguard and Veteran, which tend to kill evils more often than not. Both versions 1 and 2 will normally save 1 Town with a successful protection.

Version 3 also protects the attacker, but it also makes it likely that they will be lynched the next day. This is weaker than directly killing the attacker since it wastes lynches, which are an important resource for Town. Mafia games are generally designed so that half of lynches are scum, but ToS is different since it has TKs. I'm going to assume that 75% of lynches are scum, but if someone more familiar with Ranked has a better number I'll change it. If you treat a scum kill as the same as 1.5 Town saves (since there are 1.5 times as many scum), an average lynch will lead to 0.75*1.5 - 0.25*1 = 0.875 Town saves. Overall, a successful V3 protection leads to 1 + (1.5-0.875) = 1.625 Town saves.

Version 4 kills the attacker while saving the target, so a successful protection results in 1 + 1.5 = 2.5 Town saves.

The game lasts around 6 nights, and each night that is spent upgrading the robot is one less night protecting. Ideally, you want each tier of protection to be similar in power to each other and to a Doctor. That way, there isn't one dominating strategy and the role isn't OP/UP. Here are the total number of Town saves per game for each level assuming perfect protections:

V1: 1 * 6 = 6
V2: 1 * 5 = 5
V3: 1.625 * 4 = 6.5
V4: 2.5 * 3 = 7.5
Doctor: 1 * 6 = 6

In reality the later versions are going to be weaker because the outcome of the game will likely be decided at that point. Plus, there's a chance that the Engineer dies at any point in the game. Assuming 2 deaths per cycle, the power level would be as follows:

V1: 15/15 + 13/15 + 11/15 + 9/15 + 7/15 + 5/15 = 4 (same as Doctor)
V2: 13/15 + 11/15 + 9/15 + 7/15 + 5/15 = 3
V3: 1.625 * (11/15 + 9/15 + 7/15 + 5/15) = 3.47
V4: 2.5 * (9/15 + 7/15 + 5/15) = 3.5

So the strength of the protection does seem to decline as the game continues. Overall these numbers aren't too bad, but a slight increasing trend above 4 would be preferable imo to make the role used less like a Doctor. Maybe you can give it a self heal that it can use once while upgrading the robot. That would increase all protection values by one. V1 would still be the strongest version, so maybe it can be nerfed to encourage players to upgrade the robot at least once. This could be dying in place of the target, which would be very weak but would encourage players to upgrade. So here's my suggestion and the power levels of each version:

V1: Die in place of the target (PL = 0 because you can't use a self-heal without upgrading)
V2: Doctor heal (PL = 1 + 3 = 4)
V3: Find attacker identity (PL = 1 + 3.47 = 4.47)
V4: Kill attacker (PL = 1 + 3.5 = 4.5)

It's slightly stronger than Doctor but acceptable imo since it is slow to upgrade. V2 is slightly weaker than Doctor since you would have to self heal N1, and the strength of V3 and V4 is approximate since the value of lynches and scum kills is somewhat subjective. Since the power levels increase slightly from V2 onward, players are encouraged to upgrade and play the role differently from Doctor.
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