Some Buffs and Nerfs

[Benn3]

Jailor:

Nerfs:

-Can't jail the same person twice in a row. This is an obvious one.
-Can't jail somebody N1


Ambusher:

Buffs:

-Only the person you attack will see your name
-You will get a list of up to 3 people who visit
-Investigative results changed to (LO, Forger, Jugg, Coven Leader, Ambusher)


Amnesiac:

Buff:
-Remembering now has a higher priority - you will immediately gain the defense that role has once remembering it, so you cannot die as you remember a role with defense

Hypnotist:

Buffs:

-Can now target 2 people each night, making it harder for Transporters to get confirmed, this will also help with claiming Doctor
-Fix the damn poisoned message so that people don't immediately realize it's a Hypnotist

Nerfs:

-Remove the "You triggered a trap!". It's completely useless as it'll only make sense if used on another evil, but since they won't die, it'll be obviously a Hypnotist.

Framer:

Buffs:

-Allow them to choose the investigative result their target appears as, as long as it has a Mafia member in it(doc, disg, sk, pm) (bg, gf, arso, crus) etc

Full Reworks Needed:

Disguiser
Vampire
Framer(?)
Survivor(?)

[SilverCruz]

Jailor
If jailing a Serial Killer Night 1 is a consistent problem for you, then you probably play too much Classic. That said, in that situation you need to just hang out and out them to the Medium the next night since them not ticking that Cautious box will be a death sentence for them unless the Medium quits or gets sacked the same night as you and either doesn't stick around to use their Seance or waits too long for it.

As for the nerf, I used to speak in favor of that one, but ended up coming around to the idea of just not letting the Jailor roleblock unless it successfully executes and completely removing Jail Armor instead. That way if the Jailor calls on Day 1, Witch has effective Execution Immunity and Consorts become a bigger sticking point for them since if they get roleblocked they can't damage the Mafia's APN anymore, on top of the main reason of removing its ability to deadlock.

Ambusher
I feel like Ambusher only getting called out to its target would be sufficient, possibly more than sufficient. Restricting its visits would make it more cumbersome than it already is, though, so I don't know my stance on that.

Amnesiac
No comment, completely reasonable.

Hypnotist
The baseline Hypnotist needs to be less self-destructive is to cancel its visit on its own if its Hypnotism would contradict the target's feedback (I.E. Sheriff getting "Innocent" and "Roleblocked" at the same time).

Framer
Strike the restriction. Framing someone as an Sheriff/Executioner/Werewolf could have its use cases if they're pushing someone really hard.

Trapper
No comment.

Disguiser
Just make all of its visits invisible to the Spy so it doesn't give the Town information. It's still a stupid Framer 2.0 role, but at least then it can't actively sabotage its own interest just by acting within reason for its role. People need to remember that you can use a Disguiser to press an attack on a Jailor claim after the Doctor/Bodyguard is knocked out with less risk (not "no risk" because there might be three RT Bodyguards or something stupid like that) since it can screw with Lookouts too.

[Dimethyltryptamine99]

Jailor:

[b]Buff:
Jailing a Serial Killer night one. You can't execute, and so you can't do anything to stop them from killing you. All I simply want is for roles that kill the Jailor while jailed not to be able to kill them if jailed N1.

Oh boo fucking hoo. You say that Jailor is obviously the most powerful role in the game and then you suggest a buff for it. THe role needs buffs not nerfs. And just because you think you're Hitler when you're Jailor and that you should be protected by all means; is that a fair enough reason to remove Serial Killer being able to kill Jailor night 1. Honestly, that's one of the best mechanics in this game and if they nerfed SK in that way then the devs can go shove this game up their ass

[Soulshade55r]

Jailor:

Buff:
Obviously, Jailor is the strongest role in the game. But there's one thing that's actually been a problem for me, ironically many times. Jailing a Serial Killer night one. You can't execute, and so you can't do anything to stop them from killing you. All I simply want is for roles that kill the Jailor while jailed not to be able to kill them if jailed N1.
Sure?
Nerf:
-Can't jail the same person twice in a row. This is an obvious one.
Not enough but a start at fixing jailor

Ambusher:

Buffs:

-Only the person you attack will see your name
-You will get a list of up to 3 people who visit
-Investigative results changed to (LO, Forger, Jugg, Coven Leader, Ambusher)
Those are some pretty bad invest results only one town and the rest are scum, already not a fan of the current set, learning who visits is fine the person you attack seeing your name but no one else is kinda bad because it's only purpose is if medium exists.
Nerfs:

-You can only visit a house 3 times
sure?
^^^ Very up for debate, but I feel like Ambusher shouldn't be as vulnerable as it is. The limited use of visiting houses should help balance the buffs though.

Amnesiac:

Buff:
-Remembering now has a higher priority - you will immediately gain the defense that role has once remembering it, so you cannot die as you remember a role with defense
Agreed
Hypnotist:

Buffs:

-Can now target 2 people each night, making it harder for Transporters to get confirmed, this will also help with claiming Doctor
-Fix the damn poisoned message so that people don't immediately realize it's a Hypnotist
Agreed
Nerfs:

-Remove the "You triggered a trap!". It's completely useless as it'll only make sense if used on another evil, but since they won't die, it'll be obviously a Hypnotist.
-Remove the "Someone occupied your night. You were roleblocked!" message. It's completely useless, because almost every role in the game gets results at night, and so if they're hypnotized into being RBD, they'll still get results and immediately know it's a Hypnotist.
-Have a limit of 3-4(up for debate) hypnotizes

Disagreed 3-4 uses of a already weak ability in comparison to every mafia role (heck even framer lol). is just bruh. Also removing roleblock message is bad, Mainly only Ti's get feedback and not "almost every role" Doctor, BG, Vig, Jailor, Mayor, Retri, Medium, LO (when no one visits), Crusader, Tracker (when target doesn't visit). Maybe more..? all don't get messages, maybe we can buff this for roles such as escort/trans to see it as someone tried to roleblock you but you were immune other then that the ability to fake Rb's are fine
Framer:

Buffs:

-Allow them to choose the investigative result their target appears as, as long as it has a Mafia member in it(doc, disg, sk, pm) (bg, gf, arso, crus) etc
That seems fine

Trapper:

Buff:
-No longer has to spend a night building after a previous trap has been broken. They should be able to place another trap the next night immediately. (this is up for debate, i just think that it would make trapper less slow, which is the main complaint about the role.)

No? the roles meant to be slow but powerful... Imo trappers fine and pretty strong

Full Reworks Needed:

Disguiser No? current disguiser is alright imo
Vampire Sure, I rather vampires be a separate faction
Framer(?) I can agree
Survivor(?) Nah survivor is fine imo, not even used enough in actual roles lists to be worried about

[ak521]

Jailor:

Buff:
Obviously, Jailor is the strongest role in the game. But there's one thing that's actually been a problem for me, ironically many times. Jailing a Serial Killer night one. You can't execute, and so you can't do anything to stop them from killing you. All I simply want is for roles that kill the Jailor while jailed not to be able to kill them if jailed N1.
Instead, I suggest the Jailor should not be able to jail N1. The nerf below will also then not be as necessary even though I understand the reason for it.

Nerf:
-Can't jail the same person twice in a row. This is an obvious one.

Ambusher:

Buffs:

-Only the person you attack will see your name
-You will get a list of up to 3 people who visit
-Investigative results changed to (LO, Forger, Jugg, Coven Leader, Ambusher)

Nerfs:

-You can only visit a house 3 times

I don't like how this gets so Powerful. I made a thread about Ambusher changes that I believe have better potential to keep the Ambusher not as vulnerable. I do like the idea of only the person attacked being notified of your name.
^^^ Very up for debate, but I feel like Ambusher shouldn't be as vulnerable as it is. The limited use of visiting houses should help balance the buffs though.

Amnesiac:

Buff:
-Remembering now has a higher priority - you will immediately gain the defense that role has once remembering it, so you cannot die as you remember a role with defense

No comments as I really only play Ranked

Hypnotist:

Buffs:

-Can now target 2 people each night, making it harder for Transporters to get confirmed, this will also help with claiming Doctor
-Fix the damn poisoned message so that people don't immediately realize it's a Hypnotist

Nerfs:

-Remove the "You triggered a trap!". It's completely useless as it'll only make sense if used on another evil, but since they won't die, it'll be obviously a Hypnotist.
-Remove the "Someone occupied your night. You were roleblocked!" message. It's completely useless, because almost every role in the game gets results at night, and so if they're hypnotized into being RBD, they'll still get results and immediately know it's a Hypnotist.
-Have a limit of 3-4(up for debate) hypnotizes

I don't like these changes although the fixes I have no comment on

Framer:

Buffs:

-Allow them to choose the investigative result their target appears as, as long as it has a Mafia member in it(doc, disg, sk, pm) (bg, gf, arso, crus) etc

I like this but the Framer's already been buffed. This is a big buff imo that is not as necessary as some of the others.
No comments on below except I definitely think Disguiser needs work done as it's really confusing as is right now.


Trapper:

Buff:
-No longer has to spend a night building after a previous trap has been broken. They should be able to place another trap the next night immediately. (this is up for debate, i just think that it would make trapper less slow, which is the main complaint about the role.)


Full Reworks Needed:

Disguiser
Vampire
Framer(?)
Survivor(?)

[Benn3]

Edit:

- Edited Hypnotist nerfs and buffs a bit
- Removed the Jailor buff and just made it so they can't jail N1
- Removed Trapper from the list