Associate (Mafia Support)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

How is this role? (Please explain your answer)

Great as is!
6
46%
Good but needs tweaking.
5
38%
Bad, needs major changes.
0
No votes
Terrible, scrap the idea.
2
15%
 
Total votes : 13

Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Wed May 12, 2021 9:00 pm

Role Name:
-Associate

Role Alignment:
-Mafia(Support)

Abilities:
-Choose a mafia member to accompany during the day.

Attributes:
-When you accompany a mafia member their abilities will be enhanced for the night
-You can choose between three different enhancements: Alibi, Efficiency, or Stealth
-You can accompany a member multiple times but you cannot use the same enhancement on them more than once
-You will visit the same target as the member you accompany
-You may instead select yourself during the day to become detection immune for the night
-If there are no kill capable mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso

Notifications:
-You have decided to accompany [member] tonight.
-You have instead decided to accompany [member] tonight.
-You decided to enhance them with [Alibi/Efficiency/Stealth].
-An Associate is accompanying you for the night. Your abilities have been enhanced!

Goal:
-Kill anyone who will not submit to the mafia.

Win Conditions:
-Same as mafia

Special Attributes:
-Unique

Investigator Results:
Sheriff -Your target is suspicious.
Investigator -Your target could be a Spy/Blackmailer/Jailor/Associate
Consigliere -Your target works closely with the mafia. They must be an Associate.

Additional Information:
The different enhancements work as follows:
-Alibi: That mafia member becomes detection immune for the night and their visit is hidden from spies.
-Efficiency: That mafia member can select two targets to perform their action on that night. Cannot be used on any Mafia(Killing) role.
-Feedback: That mafia member will receive any feedback that their target received, similar to a witch.
-Stealth: That mafia member's visit becomes astral that night.
(As the Associate visits the same target as the member they accompany, if they choose the Alibi enhancement their visit will also be hidden from spies. Otherwise that ability would be pointless)
-The Associate needs to visit the same target as the member that they buffed in order for the effect to go through. They will auto target the same person at night, so the only way for this to be changed is to be jailed/rbd/witched. If this happens, or the buffed member is prevented from visiting, the given buff is still used up and cannot be used again.

I was thinking about how there are only a few Mafia Support roles so I wanted to try to create a new one. I figured the best way to support the mafia would be to buff their abilities so I threw this together.
Thanks runningwiththepower for the suggestions! Also added some suggestions from the TG discord.

Edit: Removed the Feedback ability as after hearing some critiques I agree that this role should buff mafia members but not give them whole new abilities.
Last edited by superdog551 on Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 11 times in total.
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
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Associate

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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed May 12, 2021 9:27 pm

Seems good but

Potential 3 astral attacks its way too strong, as only a doctor can prevent that, and it encourages mafia chain attacking the vet to run them out of alerts and things like that, when its obviusly a bad thing

Blackmailer support is objectively broken, as scum roles affecting voting is as bad as an omniscient TK (a tk which cannot kill town), because it cannot mess up

Forger one is also bad because thats basically what keeps forger from being objectively better than janitor in everything, not to mention that it encourages even more the lazyness of forging as ambusher with no will
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Wed May 12, 2021 9:41 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Seems good but

Potential 3 astral attacks its way too strong, as only a doctor can prevent that, and it encourages mafia chain attacking the vet to run them out of alerts and things like that, when its obviusly a bad thing

Blackmailer support is objectively broken, as scum roles affecting voting is as bad as an omniscient TK (a tk which cannot kill town), because it cannot mess up

Forger one is also bad because thats basically what keeps forger from being objectively better than janitor in everything, not to mention that it encourages even more the lazyness of forging as ambusher with no will


I agree, 3 potential astral attacks is a lot. Perhaps instead the Mafioso/Gf become hidden from LOs instead of gaining full astral abilities? Or maybe even roleblock immunity for the night?

I was thinking that the Blackmailers ability would be meant to hide the fact that someone is bmed from the town but I see what you mean with that being very strong. What if the person can still vote but their vote is hidden from the town until the verdict?

I don't think that it's too broken for a Forger to gain this ability as the Forger only has two uses compared to a janitor's three, and I don't see how it would encourage them to be lazy because nothing is really different other than seeing their will the next day? I could change it so they only see the target's original role instead of their will, or if you have a different suggestion I would be glad to edit it.
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
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Associate

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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby runningwiththepower » Thu May 13, 2021 1:06 am

Oooooo I like this idea!!!!

Only thing is--I think it would really hard to remember all the specific things The Associate does per each role.
It might be easier if the Associate gives the same buff for each role---you could do:
1. make that Mafia's action Astral
2. give that Mafia Defense
3. "receive any feedback that your target obtained that night, similar to a witch"
4. that Mafia can target 2 people instead of one

also, maybe something that could help balance this role out is you could have it be like it can only support each member of mafia Once
and if wants to support the same Mafia member, then it needs to wait a day---so if the Associate helps the Consort RB 2 people N2, they cant help the Consort specifically again till N4

just brainstorming

i think this role could be really good, useful, calculating & balanced with some edits here and there :D
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Thu May 13, 2021 2:34 pm

runningwiththepower wrote:Oooooo I like this idea!!!!

Only thing is--I think it would really hard to remember all the specific things The Associate does per each role.
It might be easier if the Associate gives the same buff for each role---you could do:
1. make that Mafia's action Astral
2. give that Mafia Defense
3. "receive any feedback that your target obtained that night, similar to a witch"
4. that Mafia can target 2 people instead of one

also, maybe something that could help balance this role out is you could have it be like it can only support each member of mafia Once
and if wants to support the same Mafia member, then it needs to wait a day---so if the Associate helps the Consort RB 2 people N2, they cant help the Consort specifically again till N4

just brainstorming

i think this role could be really good, useful, calculating & balanced with some edits here and there :D


Actually I like the versatility that would bring to the role! I probably wouldn't include giving a mafia night defense though, maybe I would change that with detection immunity instead. Also the two targets suggestion definitely needs to not be usable on Mafia Killing for obvious reasons :P

I'll revamp the role to give it the ability to choose which buff it gives!
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
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Associate

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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby Ezradekezra » Thu May 13, 2021 2:38 pm

I like the idea. I might limit its use to once per teammate, though.
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Thu May 13, 2021 2:51 pm

Ezradekezra wrote:I like the idea. I might limit its use to once per teammate, though.


What do you think of the changes I just made?

Also I was thinking about limiting it that way but I felt that would make it too weak because say two members happen to die early in the game, then it can only be useful one more time if it hasn't already supported the living member or it no longer has an ability other than hiding itself until it is out of charges. Also since the Godfather doesn't really have an ability until the mafioso is dead then this role could support the mafioso and other rm but then have to wait until the mafioso dies to be useful again for the Godfather. That's why I made it unable to support two nights in a row while still allowing it to target the same member.

Edit: Maybe you can only use a specific enhancement once per teammate, because as of now I'm sure people would only give mafioso astral attacks. If you could only give them that buff once do you think that would balance out the role?
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby runningwiththepower » Thu May 13, 2021 4:53 pm

/support this seems like a Mafia PM, i absolutely love it. and each of the abilities are so useful :D
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby Ezradekezra » Thu May 13, 2021 4:56 pm

I think the changed version is neat too
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby runningwiththepower » Thu May 13, 2021 6:23 pm

Looking over it now,


I actually kinda wonder if maybe you should cut off the "Efficiency" ability effect & make that its own Separate role???
just because i think the 3 OG abilities Associate have are pretty strong as is already, esp Surveillance. and efficiency seems the most primed to be something new entirely of the bunch IMO

ur call just theorizin lol
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Thu May 13, 2021 6:32 pm

runningwiththepower wrote:Looking over it now,


I actually kinda wonder if maybe you should cut off the "Efficiency" ability effect & make that its own Separate role???
just because i think the 3 OG abilities Associate have are pretty strong as is already, esp Surveillance. and efficiency seems the most primed to be something new entirely of the bunch IMO

ur call just theorizin lol


Do you mean make a separate role that gives mafia two visits? Idk I feel like it would be better to keep it all together under this role
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby runningwiththepower » Thu May 13, 2021 8:06 pm

Yea that's what I mean. Like I said, i think the 3 OG abilities are p strong as is but w/ Efficiency, it really takes it over da edge ^^
maybe smthing like:
New!Associate: Give 1 any Mafia the ability to target 2 people. Can't do the same Mafia member twice in a row (unless they're only Maf member left). Needs a day to recharge. Only 3 uses.

idk just brainstorming ^^
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Thu May 13, 2021 8:11 pm

runningwiththepower wrote:Yea that's what I mean. Like I said, i think the 3 OG abilities are p strong as is but w/ Efficiency, it really takes it over da edge ^^
maybe smthing like:
New!Associate: Give 1 any Mafia the ability to target 2 people. Can't do the same Mafia member twice in a row (unless they're only Maf member left). Needs a day to recharge. Only 3 uses.

idk just brainstorming ^^


Oh! You mean it's too strong with all four abilities, I see. I probably wont make a separate role for just the Efficiency enhancement because on it's own I don't think it's as fun, I like the options that the current Associate provides. Do you think I should just remove the Efficiency ability and keep the other 3 to make this role more balanced?
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby runningwiththepower » Thu May 13, 2021 9:11 pm

I think some other people should weigh in before you make any changes :P

Or you could ask in the Discord too, people might be more snappy with their responses & quick to reply
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Thu May 13, 2021 9:15 pm

runningwiththepower wrote:I think some other people should weigh in before you make any changes :P

Or you could ask in the Discord too, people might be more snappy with their responses & quick to reply


I think I'll do that!
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby alex1234321 » Fri May 14, 2021 6:28 am

Generally I don't like JoaT roles since they're hard to balance and implement. This one isn't too bad since its abilities have a cohesive theme and affect each role somewhat equally. I don't think it should have limited uses since each ability is comparable if not slightly weaker than a standalone Mafia role, but the Associate shouldn't be able to use the same ability in consecutive nights to prevent it from abusing one ability.
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Fri May 14, 2021 10:31 am

alex1234321 wrote:Generally I don't like JoaT roles since they're hard to balance and implement. This one isn't too bad since its abilities have a cohesive theme and affect each role somewhat equally. I don't think it should have limited uses since each ability is comparable if not slightly weaker than a standalone Mafia role, but the Associate shouldn't be able to use the same ability in consecutive nights to prevent it from abusing one ability.


Thanks for the feedback! I was worried it would be too strong if it had more than three uses since I feel the buffs it can give to the mafia are pretty useful but it seems most people think that it's not strong enough. If I give it unlimited uses should I keep the fact that it can only give each member a certain boost once or do you think your idea of non consecutive nights would be better?
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby alex1234321 » Fri May 14, 2021 10:56 am

superdog551 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:Generally I don't like JoaT roles since they're hard to balance and implement. This one isn't too bad since its abilities have a cohesive theme and affect each role somewhat equally. I don't think it should have limited uses since each ability is comparable if not slightly weaker than a standalone Mafia role, but the Associate shouldn't be able to use the same ability in consecutive nights to prevent it from abusing one ability.


Thanks for the feedback! I was worried it would be too strong if it had more than three uses since I feel the buffs it can give to the mafia are pretty useful but it seems most people think that it's not strong enough. If I give it unlimited uses should I keep the fact that it can only give each member a certain boost once or do you think your idea of non consecutive nights would be better?


Your idea is better imo. The problem is you don't want someone using the role to give Mafioso permanent astral visits or anything like that. Both ideas address that problem but yours allows for more versatility since it can give the same boost two two different players in consecutive nights.
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Fri May 14, 2021 7:47 pm

Edited the role to have unlimited uses. The Associate can only give each individual mafia member one of each buff.
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby Benn3 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:16 pm

This is honestly a really solid idea, best out of all the roles suggested in this vote in my opinion. One thing I think should be removed is the 'Feedback' ability, as that's granting the mafia member a whole new ability in itself, and it'll essentially turn them into a Consigliere, which would be too OP and isn't necessary. However, maybe you can add an ability that grants the target Basic defense for the night? This still might be OP but I think it makes more sense than the Feedback ability. Other than that, I don't see this role having much issue being added.
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby superdog551 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:22 pm

Benn3 wrote:This is honestly a really solid idea, best out of all the roles suggested in this vote in my opinion. One thing I think should be removed is the 'Feedback' ability, as that's granting the mafia member a whole new ability in itself, and it'll essentially turn them into a Consigliere, which would be too OP and isn't necessary. However, maybe you can add an ability that grants the target Basic defense for the night? This still might be OP but I think it makes more sense than the Feedback ability. Other than that, I don't see this role having much issue being added.


I agree about the feedback, and someone else in the role poll made me realize it's adding an ability rather than enhancing. So for that reason I am going to just remove it from the role and have there only be the other three abilities for now. I like the idea about night defense but I also think that would be too powerful as a mafia aligned doc just seems like too big of a support. Thanks for the feedback!
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: Associate (Mafia Support)

Postby MarsGodofWar » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:27 am

Benn3 wrote:This is honestly a really solid idea, best out of all the roles suggested in this vote in my opinion. One thing I think should be removed is the 'Feedback' ability, as that's granting the mafia member a whole new ability in itself, and it'll essentially turn them into a Consigliere, which would be too OP and isn't necessary. However, maybe you can add an ability that grants the target Basic defense for the night? This still might be OP but I think it makes more sense than the Feedback ability. Other than that, I don't see this role having much issue being added.


Are we all looking at the same role here? Most of the roles suggested in the last few months in the polls are absolute jokes, this one included.

So this role has three abilities?

-Alibi which is just an ability which would make Sheriff more useless then it already is. Sheriff needs a buff not a nerf. It is also just an enhanced version of Disguisers normal abillity. So an alibi hides a visit from the Spy and makes your target detection immune, but not only that it hides your visit and makes yourself detection immune for the night. So two members of the Mafia are completely undetectable to Sheriff for one night. Do you not see how bad this would be for the game? It makes the Sheriff the most useless role in the game.

Disguiser currently hides a visit from the spy, but can be deciphered as the Disguised target will also appear as visited. But at least the Disguiser can only make one player immune to Sheriff. Disguiser is a bad role lets get that straight and it is a terrible concept, but the solution is not to give an enhanced version of the disguisers ability to another role.

-Efficiency allows a mafia member to target twice. Really really bad concept. No role should be allowed to target twice. And besides, most Mafia roles are not useful enough that allowing them to target twice would be helpful. This abillity is practically only useful for three Mafia roles (which may not occur). Blackmailer, Consigliere, & Hypnotist. Blackmailer is fine being able to silent one person a night, they don't need the abillity to silence two people. Even though it would be useful, its not enough to justify having a role to enhance this. Same goes for Consigliere. It would make it eaiser to fake claim transporter as hypno, but thats not enough to justify it either.

Efficiency doesn't sound really efficient at all, seeing as its mostly useless if used against a Forger, Janitor, Framer. Framer isn't powerful enough that targetting twice a night would be game changing. Forger and Janitor would only be useful on the nights that you somehow get lucky and target a player that died by other means.

-Stealth: (That mafia member's visit becomes astral that night.) Very pathetic and lazy suggestion, defiantly the worse of the three suggested. It's like you just chucked it in to bring this role up to three abillitys which seems to be the magically number for multiuse roles. So an associate (who is a mortal I assume) is able to make a simple Mafia member with a gun travel from the astral realm (spirit realm) and kill someone. No just stop. Astral is a Coven ability not Mafia.

Mostly just an abillity to bypass a Lookout. Just straight bad, we don't need abilitys to counter one Town Investigative role. There are other ways to fix Lookout, namely nerfing the tp/lo meta. And no Mafia role should be able to bypass a Bodyguard period

Summary: Really just a bad role, period. Complete and utterly boring and unoriginal concept. I don't know how to kindly say that. I can't believe this role has actually been seconded and voted for multiple times. And the amount of people that actually think this role is a good idea is mind boggling. I guess most of the people who voted are the same people who voted for Klepto (Witch/Consigliere daytime morph) on the last poll
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