Investigator Results Re-Tool

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Investigator Results Re-Tool

Postby Cookazoo2 » Sun May 02, 2021 4:45 pm

TL;DR, invest is nigh impossible to balance but without it there's no town-sided rolefinder.

I attempted to make Investigator's results balanced. Whether or not I succeeded is up to you.
When creating these rebalanced results I followed several rules:
  • Every result has the same number of roles per result within the context of Ranked and without it.

    By doing this we at the very least ensure no roles are screwed for claims entirely.

    .
  • At least in Coven, every Neutral Killing role is paired with a Town Protective role.

    SK with Doctor, WW with BG, Arsonist with Crusader, and Jugg with Trapper.
    Arsonist was the odd man out here and I chose for Arsonist to not have a Classic TP to go with them as Arsons can claim they were doused.

    .
  • Every result has at least one Town and one non-Town player in it.

    Framer/Vampire/Jester/HM was certainly a result. With this rework they all now have Town claims to play off as and also introduces a level of entropy into the list -– it's possible someone claiming Medium could in fact be framed.

I will not pretend that these results are balanced. If I come up with better ones or people start yelling at me because I put Investigator with three nontown in the Ranked results, I am willing to change them.

Classic Ranked Results
Spoiler: Mayor, Medium, Framer, Janitor
Jailor, Retri, Mafioso, Forger
Escort, Transporter, Consort, Hypnotist
Doctor, Spy, Disguiser, Blackmailer
Invest, Consigliere, Witch, Jester
Lookout, Bodyguard, Vigilante, Ambusher
Sheriff, Veteran, Godfather, Executioner


Full Classic Results
Spoiler: Mayor, Medium, Framer, Janitor, Vampire
Jailor, Retri, Mafioso, Forger, Amnesiac
Escort, Transporter, Consort, Hypnotist, Vampire Hunter
Doctor, Spy, Disguiser, Blackmailer, Serial Killer
Invest, Consigliere, Witch, Jester, Survivor
Lookout, Bodyguard, Vigilante, Ambusher, Werewolf
Sheriff, Veteran, Godfather, Executioner, Arsonist


Full Coven Results
Spoiler: Mayor, Medium, Framer, Janitor, Vampire, Hex Master
Jailor, Retri, Mafioso, Forger, Amnesiac, Necromancer
Escort, Transporter, Consort, Hypnotist, Vampire Hunter, Pirate
Doctor, Spy, Disguiser, Blackmailer, Serial Killer, Tracker
Invest, Consigliere, Coven Leader, Jester, Survivor, Guardian Angel
Lookout, Bodyguard, Vigilante, Ambusher, Werewolf, Medusa
Sheriff, Veteran, Godfather, Executioner, Arsonist, Crusader
Trapper, Psychic, Potion Master, Poisoner, Plaguebearer, Juggernaut


Non-Results Changes
Spoiler: Investigator's results only return roles that are possible in the current role list.
(as each result is stored separately in the xml, this might not work for custom)

The Framer/Hex Master and Arsonist results also inform the Investigator the possibility their target was framed or hexed or doused.
This will not change based on context, the results merely read:

Your target could be a Mayor, Medium, Framer, Janitor, Vampire, Hex Master, or could be Framed or Hexed.

Your target could be a Sheriff, Veteran, Godfather, Executioner, Arsonist, Crusader, or could be Doused.


With this rework I'd also like to suggest Retributionist I and Mafioso I from this rework list and my TMK proposal go hand-in-hand with this.
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Re: Investigator Results Re-Tool

Postby SilverCruz » Sun May 02, 2021 5:03 pm

I'd like to point out that the existence of the Bad Bucket (Framer/Vampire/Jester/Hex Master) only exists to facilitate the Framer being able to suggest that anyone they frame is unilaterally bad (since it existed before the Hex Master).

So removing the Bad Bucket would probably work best if the Framer were also made able to choose any Investigative bracket for their target to appear as. Would also be a hell of a lot more useful for Jesters, that's for sure, since (excluding roles not found in normal Ranked) using Body/God would be way more discreet than Framer/Jester.

Since Hex Master echoes Arsonist more than Framer, they probably don't need to be adjusted since they're actually doing something other than changing results.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Investigator Results Re-Tool

Postby alex1234321 » Sun May 02, 2021 5:21 pm

I mostly looked at the Classic results, which seem pretty good. The biggest issue that I see is the LO/BG/Vig/Amb resut since Ambusher isn't nearly enough pressure for those other roles. I would either swap Ambusher for Godfather/Maf it give that result a guaranteed scum in the game or switch Jester and Lookout, which would make it only two Town and make the 3 scum result a little better. Of course Townies don't want to lynch Jesters but they're still a scum role that Town doesn't want in the game.
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Re: Investigator Results Re-Tool

Postby OreCreeper » Sun May 02, 2021 6:59 pm

Mayor, Medium, Framer, Janitor
Sure, let's make framer even more trash! Framer fooling invest is useless now because framer's result is no longer all evil and if it gets caught trying to fake TP with its visit by invest, it won't even have the "I was framed" excuse.
Jailor, Retri, Mafioso, Forger
Rip mafioso and forger I guess. Can't wait to have my ret claim hard cc'ed :D
Escort, Transporter, Consort, Hypnotist
Original result, which makes sense because it was fine
Doctor, Spy, Disguiser, Blackmailer
Pretty much just the disg/bmer results merged, I'm fine with that
Invest, Consigliere, Witch, Jester
No real problem with this other than that jester feels kinda out of place
Lookout, Bodyguard, Vigilante, Ambusher
Pretty much a confirmed LO, BG, or vig, due to ambusher being a fairly rare spawn, and also being unique, so if the amb dies, all of those roles would be confirmed and they are all powerful yet hard to confirm town roles
Sheriff, Veteran, Godfather, Executioner
Feels kind of unfair to squeeze sheriff in with godfather, which is a guaranteed spawn in most balanced classic rolelists. The role is already super sus, at least give it a decent result.
My proposal:
Med, Jani, Ret, Forger
Esc, Trans, Cons, Hypno
Doc, Spy, Disg, BMer
LO, Inv, Consig, Witch
Sheriff, BG, Exe, Amb
Vig, Vet, Mafioso, GF
Framer, Jest, Jailor, Mayor
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Re: Investigator Results Re-Tool

Postby alex1234321 » Sun May 02, 2021 7:17 pm

OreCreeper wrote:My proposal:
Med, Jani, Ret, Forger
Esc, Trans, Cons, Hypno
Doc, Spy, Disg, BMer
LO, Inv, Consig, Witch
Sheriff, BG, Exe, Amb
Vig, Vet, Mafioso, GF
Framer, Jest, Jailor, Mayor


My only issue with this is the Vig/Vet/Maf/GF result. You're lumping two confirmed spawn scum roles in with a unique TK and another TK that can often confirm itself. I would never put Godfather and Mafioso together in the current Ranked rolelist or most balanced rolelists for that matter. Switching GF and Amb would give the original Vig result. Sher/BG/Exe/GF is scummy but it gives Godfather two easy fakeclaims and even lets it claim Exe to explain its immunity.
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