dolphina wrote:ok i hate to burst your bubble bud but the lookout was originally like the change you suggested, people said it was too overpowered so the devs nerfed it for the sake of boosting evils
dolphina wrote:also why are you comparing this ToS godfather with don corleone from the godfather just what
dolphina wrote:and why are you making it realistic? the point is that if the transporter isn’t roleblock immune there could be this weird thing that happens called
“people get really fucking mad about it and the devs revert the change”
most of these would probably receive extreme community backlash
dolphina wrote:this game isn’t supposed to be realistic
MarsGodofWar wrote:Transporter: (1) Can now be roleblocked
Absolutely no reason why they should be roleblocked immune. Role blocking should have priority over their transporting. So if they try to transport themselves with someone else they will be roleblocked. Come on, you think a Taxi Driver or Chauffeur is to disciplined to sleep with Hookers? Bonkers, whoever idea it was to make a Transporter immune to roleblocking is an idiot
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
(2) Transporting a Vet
The way that transport works with Veteran right now doesn't make any sense. A veteran is meant to shoot anyone who visits them. It makes no sense for the Veteran to be transported whilst on alert and for people visiting the player Vet is transported with to be killed instead.
Instead, if a Transporter chooses to transport a Veteran first. The Transporter will be killed by the Veteran and the 2nd person won't be transported. If the transporter transports someone else first and then chooses to transport the Veteran, the transporter, the player transported first and the players originally visiting the Veteran will be killed instead.
Veteran doesnt stops actions, so no, an arso will still douse a vet, so a second arso will be able to ignite them
Lookout: Sees all targets
RNG shouldn't exist in this game and needs to be fixed. Lookout isn't overpowered, the Jailor meta just sucks. Fix the Jailor meta, you fix Lookout. I got lynched the other game as Bodyguard because a Framer, Spy & some other fucker appeared on the Lookout will but I didn't. So basically, I was lynched because of RNG.
Situations werw RNG is involved with this role are very little, and even with 3 visits its still overpowered
Veteran: No longer unique
No reason for a Veteran to be unique, it isn't a super important town power role like Mayor or Jailor and removing it from being Unique would open up claim space for evils. Having 4 Veterans would be insane, but 4 Vigilantes and 4 Escorts is also very insane and unbalanced. I'd like to see 2 Maximum Veterans possible.
I didnt see this change at first; and yeah this one is good
Vigilante: No longer suicides if they shoot a town member.
Unrealistic and very swingy in ranked. Vigilante should in no way suicide after they shoot a town member. PERIOD. Honestly, they should still be able to shoot afterwards as well. They're a Vigilante afterwards and sometimes Vigilantes kill Innocents. I know this was implemented to stop trolls and game throws, but that is what the report system is for.
Yeah, like everyone seems to agree with, 2 bullets, no suicide
Trapper: Add to the standard game please and make this role less slow.
In its current state, this role would be a disaster if added to Mafia ranked. Possibilities: 2 Traps out at a time and/or able to set traps every night without having to wait to build one.
yeah, trapper needs a buff, but not one like that, because it would be OP, Orecreeper and me have suggested a few reworks before
Consort: Can detect roleblock immune targets
Mafia counterparts to town roles are meant to be more powerful and have that edge. Power in numbers after all. Consigliere detects the exact role whilst Investigator gets a possibility of roles. I suggest that a Consort is notified if they roleblock someone who is immune.
Consort is stronger than escort solely for the fact that its part of an informed minority, so it cannot roleblock a teammate in normal situations, consort is already the strongest RM (along with forger) so it doesnt needs buffs
Retributionist: Allow to use all roles with active night time abilities.
Currently, Retributionist is either useless or useful depending on which roles spawn. A very terrible rework and an unbalanced an swingy role. Retributionist should now be able to use transporter and veteran. The Veteran would work as a defence role for whoever the Retributionist sends the Vet to.
Reason of this is that retri has priority lower than trans, and also that trans is a 2 target role, so having a 3 targeting system would be wierd, also vet is not a visiting role, so dont send it to other houses
Mayor: Can be whispered to once revealed
It's annoying and unrealistic that a Mayor cannot be whispered to. A Mayor should be able to get the help from tp/investigators once they have revealed like a Jailor can. There should still always be a risk to the Mayor revealing early, but once they've revealed... I see no reason people shouldn't be able to whisper and claim to them.
Mayor is the second/third strongest townie, no buffs needed, specially if its the point of mayor; revealing should have its downsides
Witch: All non-visiting targets can be made to visit.
Completely unrealistic that a powerful Witch cannot make a Medium or a Mayor etc visit anyone. This is a simple buff for the Witch, but would make the game more realistic and balanced. Witch should be able to control anyone and make them visit. They can control Jailor, Medium, Mayor etc. These roles will appear to visit on Lookout and Tracker wills and will also be able to visit a Veteran.
this is already a thing, more or less, an Lo can see certain non visitung roles visiting if they get witched, but those roles wont be shot by vet or rampages, its a super wierd interaction which I think got changed, but im not sure
Godfather: Roleblock immune
Do you really think Don Corleone would abandon his responsibilities and be swayed by a hooker? No. The Godfather is the leader of the Mafia for a reason. Giving the Godfather roleblock immunity would else reduce the chance of an Escort deadlock.
The solution for this is tactical mafia kills
Blackmailer: Players can now talk during their last words once they've been voted guilty.
You've been blackmailed, but are you not gonna say anything after you've been sentenced to death?
Yeah, its a good start
Jailor: Targets can be targetted (besides from protection roles)
Once Jailed targets have left their Jailed cells, there's no reason why players should not be able to target them. What I suggest is that investigative roles can now invest targets that are jailed and jailed targets can be killed once they left Jail. If the Jailor executes, the target will still not be able to be protected in anyway.
Could be
Plaguebearer: No longer reveals to town when it becomes Pestilence.
I love this role and believe it is near perfect in design. But how often does it win? 5%? Somewhat understandable, Neutral Killing roles require more skill and should never have a super high win rate like Town or Mafia. But, I believe the Plaguebearer needs that extra day and it should not be instantly revealed to the town that Pestilence has come. Often when this is announced, Pestilence doesn't have any time to do anything and the town gets desperate to lynch Pestilence. Most of the time, by the time you've become Pestilence, you're doom. "5 claimed Survivor, he's Pestilence" and then you instantly get lynched. The town shouldn't find out about Pestilence until Pestilence has killed. This would also stop people from saying "DON'T VISIT ANYMORE WE NEED TO CATCH PESTILENCE" Giving Pestilence an extra day would make this role way more balanced and winnable.
No
Hex Master: Can Hex an additional player with the Necronomicon, but the 2nd hex isn't lethal
How often do you see a Hex Master perform their unstoppable attack? Never. Exactly, so this role needs a buff. I suggest that on nights the Hex Master has the Necronomicon that they are able to Hex a 2nd player, but this player will not be attacked. Would this make Sheriff & Investigators useless? Idk, prehaps stop the Hex Master from framing their target. I think this one is very much up to debate.
Secondly. I'm allowed 2 accounts. I created a new account to improve my Elo in ranked. I have never used this 2nd account to boost my own ideas. I only ever comment on my posts if someone else has commented. Boosting my own ideas would mean that I'm going on another account and commenting positive things on my own posts, which I have never ever done.
MarsGodofWar wrote:How often do you see a Hex Master perform their unstoppable attack? Never.
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Veteran doesn't stops actions, so no, an arso will still douse a vet, so a second arso will be able to ignite them
Situations werw RNG is involved with this role are very little, and even with 3 visits its still overpowered
Reason of this is that retri has priority lower than trans, and also that trans is a 2 target role, so having a 3 targeting system would be wierd, also vet is not a visiting role, so dont send it to other houses
this is already a thing, more or less, an Lo can see certain non visitung roles visiting if they get witched, but those roles wont be shot by vet or rampages, its a super wierd interaction which I think got changed, but im not sure
The solution for this is tactical mafia kills
MarsGodofWar wrote:Plaguebearer: No longer reveals to town when it becomes Pestilence.
I love this role and believe it is near perfect in design. But how often does it win? 5%? Somewhat understandable, Neutral Killing roles require more skill and should never have a super high win rate like Town or Mafia. But, I believe the Plaguebearer needs that extra day and it should not be instantly revealed to the town that Pestilence has come. Often when this is announced, Pestilence doesn't have any time to do anything and the town gets desperate to lynch Pestilence. Most of the time, by the time you've become Pestilence, you're doom. "5 claimed Survivor, he's Pestilence" and then you instantly get lynched. The town shouldn't find out about Pestilence until Pestilence has killed. This would also stop people from saying "DON'T VISIT ANYMORE WE NEED TO CATCH PESTILENCE" Giving Pestilence an extra day would make this role way more balanced and winnable.Swyshfjdsayfs wrote:No
Coven faction is severely overpowered, it needs nerfs and not buffs
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Secondly. I'm allowed 2 accounts. I created a new account to improve my Elo in ranked. I have never used this 2nd account to boost my own ideas. I only ever comment on my posts if someone else has commented. Boosting my own ideas would mean that I'm going on another account and commenting positive things on my own posts, which I have never ever done.
oh really? Then how would you explain that?
dolphina wrote:guys i just think this guy won’t listen to us so
let’s head out
MarsGodofWar wrote:because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.
cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.
What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.
MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.
What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.
You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.
Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that
MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.
What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.
You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.
Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that
No, transporter is rb inmune because the devs decided to put higher priority than esc and cons, is not hard to understand, but you are making it look like a bad decition which is game breaking and blah blah blah
Transpirter is fine being rb inmune, transporter is fine with its interaction with vet
Also almost all your changes are because of lore things, when balance>lore
cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.
What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.
You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.
Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that
But if they transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would not transport themselves into the roleblock because they were roleblocked. But this contradicts itself, because if they didn't transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would transport themselves into the roleblock because they weren't roleblocked. What would happen? Who gets roleblocked?
MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.
What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.
You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.
Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that
But if they transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would not transport themselves into the roleblock because they were roleblocked. But this contradicts itself, because if they didn't transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would transport themselves into the roleblock because they weren't roleblocked. What would happen? Who gets roleblocked?
You're just repeating yourself again. Are you dumb? Honestly, its not that bloody hard to understand. There's no paradox to it, so stop making it out like there is. ITS A FUCKING TAXI DRIVER!!! You're not going back in time and killing your grandparents. The role block would only occur IF YOU WERE DIRECTLY targeted. Nothing about what I've suggested contradicts itself in any way, you just seem to have trouble understanding more advanced mechanics.
cob709 wrote:So instead of Transporter being Escort immune, the Escort becomes Transporter immune?
MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:cob709 wrote:MarsGodofWar wrote:because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed
Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.
What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.
You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.
Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that
But if they transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would not transport themselves into the roleblock because they were roleblocked. But this contradicts itself, because if they didn't transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would transport themselves into the roleblock because they weren't roleblocked. What would happen? Who gets roleblocked?
You're just repeating yourself again. Are you dumb? Honestly, its not that bloody hard to understand. There's no paradox to it, so stop making it out like there is. ITS A FUCKING TAXI DRIVER!!! You're not going back in time and killing your grandparents. The role block would only occur IF YOU WERE DIRECTLY targeted. Nothing about what I've suggested contradicts itself in any way, you just seem to have trouble understanding more advanced mechanics.
So instead of Transporter being Escort immune, the Escort becomes Transporter immune?
Bro can you fuck off? You are absolutely fucking stupid. Stop putting words into my mouth. Not once did I say that an Escort would be immune to Transports, so I don't understand how you pulled that idea out of your ass.
dolphina wrote:because of how the game is coded, the transport has priority over the roleblock, so a roleblock to a transporter would occur. Here’s the sequence of events, played out with a few explanations:
SEQUENCE:
Game is coded so transport > roleblock.
Escort/Consort roleblocks [X].
Transporter transports [X] and themself. Transporter doesn’t have roleblock immunity.
Escort roleblocks Transporter. But if a roleblock prevents the transport from occurring, then how could you even get roleblocked in the first place? Like I said 5 times already. If a transporter gets directly roleblocked, then they would be role blocked. So if they are transporting themself and they get DIRECTLY targetted or if they get roleblocked and they are transporting two other players. The roleblock wouldn't have any effect if the Transporter is indirectly targetted by transing himself into the roleblock.
It’s really not that hard to understand. Please calm down, I get that you’re getting a little heated over this, but it isn’t really that big of an issue. A paradox like this in coding would probably crash your game or something.
Besides, that’d change priority, which makes it impossible for Transporters to transport roleblock targets.
I understand perfectly, I'm the one who keeps having to explain myself after all. It's cob who doesn't seem to understand and keeps making shit up like this is a time travel paradox we are discussing.
Also, it wouldn't crash the game at all, works fine in SC2Mafia. Like I said this game has really lazy mechanics.
If you were directly targeted, sure, this wouldn’t be an issue, but it’s because of caveats like this that Transporter has roleblock immunity. Besides, it’s probably easier for the devs to code an umbrella roleblock immunity rather than just take away Transporter’s immunity when it’s directly roleblocked by the escort.
Besides, that’d change priority, which makes it impossible for Transporters to transport roleblock targets. OMG. You're fucking stupid. There's nothing to imply that Transporter wouldn't be able to transport roleblocked targets. So stop pulling random delusions outta your ass.
cob709 wrote:
This change would be difficult and confusing to implement and understand. Players will get confused.
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