Executioner Rework

[alex1234321]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

No because after exe wins, they get executed next night meaning that you cant do anything after it, and get a loss if you got your goal but mafia was dumb is lame

[alex1234321]

No because after exe wins, they get executed next night meaning that you cant do anything after it, and get a loss if you got your goal but mafia was dumb is lame

Maybe allow the haunt to go through the Jailor? Also if you’re any other Mafia member and you play well but everyone else is dumb then you’ll probably lose so it’s not that different. TOS is a team game, so the best team should win.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

No because after exe wins, they get executed next night meaning that you cant do anything after it, and get a loss if you got your goal but mafia was dumb is lame

Maybe allow the haunt to go through the Jailor? Also if you’re any other Mafia member and you play well but everyone else is dumb then you’ll probably lose so it’s not that different. TOS is a team game, so the best team should win.

Except that exe isnt part of a team, and shouldnt be part of a team

[alex1234321]

No because after exe wins, they get executed next night meaning that you cant do anything after it, and get a loss if you got your goal but mafia was dumb is lame

Maybe allow the haunt to go through the Jailor? Also if you’re any other Mafia member and you play well but everyone else is dumb then you’ll probably lose so it’s not that different. TOS is a team game, so the best team should win.

Except that exe isnt part of a team, and shouldnt be part of a team

Executioner should be aligned against town since it’s NE and has a goal that is inherently against Town as it is. Since there’s no NK in the current role list, Executioner should be on the same team on Mafia. Even with an NK, the Executioner can pick a side to work with so that they aren’t punished because one team that they aren’t fully part of played badly.

[OreCreeper]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

[alex1234321]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

[cob709]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town.

I agree. Neutral Evils must specifically be against the Town to prevent the game from swinging in favor of the Town.

To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game."

Perhaps instead of forcing them to have their target lynched, they should share the Witch's win condition, but simply have different abilities.

[alex1234321]

To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game."

Perhaps instead of forcing them to have their target lynched, they should share the Witch's win condition, but simply have different abilities.[/quote]
At that point you might as well make a completely new role. I think getting a target lynched is kind of the point of Executioner.

[OreCreeper]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

[alex1234321]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

If exe gets their target hanged and invincible defense it is actually an autoloss for town unless TK kills mafia next night, because you got an extra vote for mafia which you can only kill by lyncing, so a 1 for 1 would only be benefitial if they are lucky enough to hang the scum first and not the townie

[OreCreeper]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

Well 1 for 1s already aren't great for town because all mafia needs is one mislynch to win the game (assuming they pull off all of their night kills). Now, TKs can't even kill the executioner at night so it will most likely be 6v6 by d3 unless vigi/jailor gets a lucky guess.

[alex1234321]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

Well 1 for 1s already aren't great for town because all mafia needs is one mislynch to win the game (assuming they pull off all of their night kills). Now, TKs can't even kill the executioner at night so it will most likely be 6v6 by d3 unless vigi/jailor gets a lucky guess.

This is why the rolelist needs 10 Townies, but that's besides the point. What about keeping Executioner's basic defense but allowing it to haunt even if it's roleblocked/Jailed?

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

Well 1 for 1s already aren't great for town because all mafia needs is one mislynch to win the game (assuming they pull off all of their night kills). Now, TKs can't even kill the executioner at night so it will most likely be 6v6 by d3 unless vigi/jailor gets a lucky guess.

This is why the rolelist needs 10 Townies, but that's besides the point. What about keeping Executioner's basic defense but allowing it to haunt even if it's roleblocked/Jailed?

It wont work, jester haunting a townie doesnt always mean town loses, jester haunting maf doesnt always means mafia loses, exe shouldnt be part of a team if their goal is something that they must do alone in mid game (not the case with witch)

[alex1234321]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

Well 1 for 1s already aren't great for town because all mafia needs is one mislynch to win the game (assuming they pull off all of their night kills). Now, TKs can't even kill the executioner at night so it will most likely be 6v6 by d3 unless vigi/jailor gets a lucky guess.

This is why the rolelist needs 10 Townies, but that's besides the point. What about keeping Executioner's basic defense but allowing it to haunt even if it's roleblocked/Jailed?

It wont work, jester haunting a townie doesnt always mean town loses, jester haunting maf doesnt always means mafia loses, exe shouldnt be part of a team if their goal is something that they must do alone in mid game (not the case with witch)

I don't get what your saying. Yes, Exe has a goal that's different from other scum roles, but there are very few situations where the Mafia wouldn't want it to achieve its goal, and requiring it to go against Town makes conflicts or interest even less likely. Exe has an incentive to try to haunt Town. If they get Mafia, the Mafia (and the exe by extension) will be seriously handicapped, just like if a Witch controls a vig into shooting a Mafia member. If exe gets Town, it helps scum like if Witch controls a vig into shooting itself (not as good as controlling a vig into another Townie, but still good).

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

Well 1 for 1s already aren't great for town because all mafia needs is one mislynch to win the game (assuming they pull off all of their night kills). Now, TKs can't even kill the executioner at night so it will most likely be 6v6 by d3 unless vigi/jailor gets a lucky guess.

This is why the rolelist needs 10 Townies, but that's besides the point. What about keeping Executioner's basic defense but allowing it to haunt even if it's roleblocked/Jailed?

It wont work, jester haunting a townie doesnt always mean town loses, jester haunting maf doesnt always means mafia loses, exe shouldnt be part of a team if their goal is something that they must do alone in mid game (not the case with witch)

I don't get what your saying. Yes, Exe has a goal that's different from other scum roles, but there are very few situations where the Mafia wouldn't want it to achieve its goal, and requiring it to go against Town makes conflicts or interest even less likely. Exe has an incentive to try to haunt Town. If they get Mafia, the Mafia (and the exe by extension) will be seriously handicapped, just like if a Witch controls a vig into shooting a Mafia member. If exe gets Town, it helps scum like if Witch controls a vig into shooting itself (not as good as controlling a vig into another Townie, but still good).

I though that the haunt thing included changing its goal to "lynch your target and see town lose"

[alex1234321]

I though that the haunt thing included changing its goal to "lynch your target and see town lose"

Yeah it does

[OreCreeper]

Right now, Executioner is not a true NE role because it can work against Mafia after winning and help the Town. To fix this, Executioner's win condition should be changed to "Get your target lynched and see the Town lose the game." In order to compensate for the fact that it would be harder to win as, the Executioner should have the option to haunt one player who either voted guilty or abstained. It should be similar to a Jester haunt but not required. Even though NEs that can kill are frowned upon, this is a single shot and would have even less of an impact than an extra TK. In addition to helping the Mafia, this change would increase the punishment for Townies who mislynch an Executioner's target. This is fair imo since the Townies not only made a mislynch but got tricked by a role whose explicit goal is to mislynch that player.

The reason why witch has to see town lose to win is because they should be staying alive, and as long as they are alive, they can influence the game in the favor of evils. Executioners usually get executed the night after they get their target lynched, at which point they will be unable to affect the progression of the game. This doesn't really seem fair at all in my opinion. Maybe if you give exes invincible defense after winning as well as that goal, it might be fair because town would have to waste a lynch on the executioner as well to get rid of them. In that case the "haunt" wouldn't really be needed.

Without the haunt if Executioner is strictly aligned with evils the Town might intentionally lynch exectutioner targets to get a 1 for 1 which is beneficial for town. The haunt makes it 2 for 1 so that the Town is punished for lynching an exe target even if they catch the executioner.

1 for 1s aren't beneficial for town, especially with tight rolelists like ranked where one mislynch means you lose. If the executioner has invincible defense, it would also mean you can't kill them at night, which means you'd have to waste a lynch the next day on the exe which might buy a day for other mafia members.

The Town is the majority, so doing a 1 for 1 gives scum less time to make the same number of mislynches, which can only be beneficial for Town. As a Townie, would you rather be in a 3v1 situation or a 6v4? In a 3v1 you can usually find the last Mafia fairly easily but 6v4 is very chaotic and you have to find four scum roles who are probably helping each other. If Executioner has invincible defense and a true NE wincon, it would be a full-blown scum role and lynching it would count as a scum lynch. So lynching an Executioner's target would be a 1 for 1 without a haunt (which is good for Town) and a 2 for 1 with it (which is bad for Town), so I think the haunt is necessary.

Even if Executioner doesn't have a strong ability, it would still be a vote for scum and that's more important than anything else.

Well 1 for 1s already aren't great for town because all mafia needs is one mislynch to win the game (assuming they pull off all of their night kills). Now, TKs can't even kill the executioner at night so it will most likely be 6v6 by d3 unless vigi/jailor gets a lucky guess.

This is why the rolelist needs 10 Townies, but that's besides the point. What about keeping Executioner's basic defense but allowing it to haunt even if it's roleblocked/Jailed?

A rolelist with 10 townies wouldn't be a good idea because it would be too OP for town, and even if you nerf the roles to the point where 10 townies is balanced, games would still take forever (average games might take 9/10 days), and this would make the game require less skill to play.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

I though that the haunt thing included changing its goal to "lynch your target and see town lose"

Yeah it does

Then its a bad idea, now as exe you have to be worring about whos evil, without any abilities to actually do it

And like I said, even if you haunt a townie, town can still win and you shouldnt get a loss for that

[alex1234321]

I though that the haunt thing included changing its goal to "lynch your target and see town lose"

Yeah it does

Then its a bad idea, now as exe you have to be worring about whos evil, without any abilities to actually do it

And like I said, even if you haunt a townie, town can still win and you shouldnt get a loss for that

Maybe they can get a consig ability too so that they can more easily find and team up with Mafia. Also with this change an Executioner whose target dies at night should stay as an executioner but not be able to haunt. If you and the other scum play badly, you deserve the loss even if your target is lynched. The haunt is more of a bonus than anything.