Serial Killer (Rework)

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Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:58 am

Role:
Serial Killer

Alignment:
Neutral (Killing)

Changes:
- Normal attacking mechanic is removed
- You now have a day ability, with is to stalk someone home. You will receive their exact role (bypass frame and douse) at the start of the night
- As a night ability, you may also choose to follow through with a murder, dealing a Basic attack to your target. You may only do this once per game before night 5
- After night 5, you may attack as many times as you want
- If you are attacked, you will be forced to attack your target. However, this will be free and won't count to your 1 murder (even if you chose to attack your target in the first place)
- Role blocking and cautious work the exact same way

Additional Notes:
Controlling a Serial Killer to anyone but their target will do nothing, similar to a Jailor's execute. If you control them into their target, they will attack their target if they have their 1 murder left or it is night 5 or later. This will consume the 1 murder. The Serial Killer's auto attacking when they are attacked will have priority over the control.
EDIT: The point of this rework is to make it (and NK) more ranked-friendly.
EDIT2: I'm talking about the old ranked list. Also realize this is more of a Neutral Killing rework than a Serial Killer one.
Last edited by Harryyoshi on Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Cavespider17 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:36 pm

While I think allowing a Serial Killer to stalk would be a good idea in some ways, such as preventing hitting the jester N1, it also doesn't really change things too much. For example, in what cases wouldn't you attack the person you stalked? Since the way it has been described here, it feels like you are Locked-On to that person and cannot change target - but rather simply choose to not attack.

I think the attacking back is a nice idea, but it yields no consequences. The Serial Killer is already considered a fast killing Neutral Killing role, this would increase its speed.

Although, these are just my thoughts.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:43 pm

Cavespider17 wrote:While I think allowing a Serial Killer to stalk would be a good idea in some ways, such as preventing hitting the jester N1, it also doesn't really change things too much. For example, in what cases wouldn't you attack the person you stalked? Since the way it has been described here, it feels like you are Locked-On to that person and cannot change target - but rather simply choose to not attack.

I think the attacking back is a nice idea, but it yields no consequences. The Serial Killer is already considered a fast killing Neutral Killing role, this would increase its speed.

Although, these are just my thoughts.

You can only purposely attack 1 time in the first 4 nights of the game. The attacking back is to make it so the kpn stays the same. I wouldn't call it attacking back, though, it just means Serial Killer gets another attack. Btw yeah you aren't locked on to the person you stalk, it is only for 1 night, sorry for the misconception.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Paradox12 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:05 pm

This is a pretty heavy nerf to SK and SK is supposed to be Neutral Killing not Neutral Investigative. I fail to see how this makes sense either lore-wise or balance-wise.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:07 pm

Paradox12 wrote:This is a pretty heavy nerf to SK and SK is supposed to be Neutral Killing not Neutral Investigative. I fail to see how this makes sense either lore-wise or balance-wise.

Why, exactly, is the nerfing so harsh?
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Descender » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:11 pm

sk doesnt really need a change?
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Paradox12 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:15 pm

My thing lagged so I double-posted accidentally.
Last edited by Paradox12 on Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:24 pm

Paradox12 wrote:This is a pretty heavy nerf to SK and SK is supposed to be Neutral Killing not Neutral Investigative. I fail to see how this makes sense either lore-wise or balance-wise.

Hope this (second) reply wasn't intentional.
EDIT: It's all good.
Last edited by Harryyoshi on Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:24 pm

Helicooler wrote:sk doesnt really need a change?

I mean, Neutral Killing in general need a change.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:44 pm

/no support the only advantage that SK has over the other NK is the kill consistency, this rework removes it and makes it the less kill consistant NK
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:48 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:/no support the only advantage that SK has over the other NK is the kill consistency, this rework removes it and makes it the less kill consistant NK

I like to think of this rework as a Neutral Killing rework as a whole. I'm mainly going off the ToL style while also taking into account that ToS doesn't have conversions, hence knowing the role before you kill to prevent over-killing Town or Mafia. I also took into account Neutral Killing need to be powered late game to have a chance at winning.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby CapWarrior2 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:57 am

Your basically combining a Consigliere, Tracker and Vigialnte with basic defence. I do not like. I prefer current Serial Killer for the reasons already stated, I prefer a Serial Killer that doesn't know their role of their target.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby cob709 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:20 am

SK's most advantageous attribute is that they can kill consistently.
If they cannot kill anyone until Night 5, then that feature is removed.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:39 am

cob709 wrote:SK's most advantageous attribute is that they can kill consistently.
If they cannot kill anyone until Night 5, then that feature is removed.

And? I'm trying to fix Neutral Killing in a whole, since people dislike the role of Neutral Killing in ranked right now.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Soulshade55r » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:03 am

Harryyoshi wrote:
cob709 wrote:SK's most advantageous attribute is that they can kill consistently.
If they cannot kill anyone until Night 5, then that feature is removed.

And? I'm trying to fix Neutral Killing in a whole, since people dislike the role of Neutral Killing in ranked right now.

So making it a day consig mixed with current werewolf?

No thanks... Investigative nk sounds cool I also think that nks really lack any creative aspects to play as.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Paradox12 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:43 pm

Harryyoshi wrote:
Paradox12 wrote:This is a pretty heavy nerf to SK and SK is supposed to be Neutral Killing not Neutral Investigative. I fail to see how this makes sense either lore-wise or balance-wise.

Why, exactly, is the nerfing so harsh?

Because you stopped SK's killing ability for 3 nights, which gives it the lowest Kpn out of all 4 NKs and the weakest attack power, and since NKs only spawn in all any and rainbow, SK just gets screwed even further.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Brilliand » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:04 pm

Harryyoshi wrote:And? I'm trying to fix Neutral Killing in a whole, since people dislike the role of Neutral Killing in ranked right now.


You're reducing its power to swing between the other factions, but also reducing its chance to win. Overall, this version wouldn't be any better for Ranked than the current version.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:31 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Harryyoshi wrote:And? I'm trying to fix Neutral Killing in a whole, since people dislike the role of Neutral Killing in ranked right now.


You're reducing its power to swing between the other factions, but also reducing its chance to win. Overall, this version wouldn't be any better for Ranked than the current version.

The kpn goes back to normal after night 4. I really don't get why it is a big nerf. As long as a NK gets the kpn when it needs the kpn to win (late game), then it shouldn't be that much of a nerf. Not being able to attack for the first 2 days or something doesn't lower your chances of winning at all, it just lowers the kpn, not to mention 1 kill during the first 4 nights to balance the sides is already satisfactory, and I might change it to the first 3 if it isn't.
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:59 pm

Harryyoshi wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Harryyoshi wrote:And? I'm trying to fix Neutral Killing in a whole, since people dislike the role of Neutral Killing in ranked right now.


You're reducing its power to swing between the other factions, but also reducing its chance to win. Overall, this version wouldn't be any better for Ranked than the current version.

The kpn goes back to normal after night 4. I really don't get why it is a big nerf. As long as a NK gets the kpn when it needs the kpn to win (late game), then it shouldn't be that much of a nerf. Not being able to attack for the first 2 days or something doesn't lower your chances of winning at all, it just lowers the kpn, not to mention 1 kill during the first 4 nights to balance the sides is already satisfactory, and I might change it to the first 3 if it isn't.


Reducing kpn is detrimental for you most of times, maybe you could avoid killing in night one to avoid hitting a mafia but besides that there is not much benefit you can get from a reduced KPN
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Re: Serial Killer (Rework)

Postby Harryyoshi » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:33 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:
Harryyoshi wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Harryyoshi wrote:And? I'm trying to fix Neutral Killing in a whole, since people dislike the role of Neutral Killing in ranked right now.


You're reducing its power to swing between the other factions, but also reducing its chance to win. Overall, this version wouldn't be any better for Ranked than the current version.

The kpn goes back to normal after night 4. I really don't get why it is a big nerf. As long as a NK gets the kpn when it needs the kpn to win (late game), then it shouldn't be that much of a nerf. Not being able to attack for the first 2 days or something doesn't lower your chances of winning at all, it just lowers the kpn, not to mention 1 kill during the first 4 nights to balance the sides is already satisfactory, and I might change it to the first 3 if it isn't.


Reducing kpn is detrimental for you most of times, maybe you could avoid killing in night one to avoid hitting a mafia but besides that there is not much benefit you can get from a reduced KPN

Detrimental could be an overstatement though. I admit it's a nerf, and it's negative in general, but it doesn't nerf it that much.
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