Consigliere Buff

[OreCreeper]

- In addition to finding out their target's exact role, consiglieres will also know how many instances of that role, alignment, and faction are currently alive.
- All Neutral roles are considered part of the Neutral 'faction'.

At first, this buff may seem useless, but it can actually be very powerful. It can let you get a very quick idea of what the town's layout is like. Finding a TP means you know how many TP roles there are in the game. If you find a TS, you can easily find out how many TS roles there are. If you find a vigi, you can instantly know if a veteran exists, and the other way around.

The consigliere would get info like this:

<Normal message>
There are <x> instances of your target's role alive currently.
There are <y> instances of your target's alignment alive currently.
There are <z> instances of your target's faction alive currently.

[Soulshade55r]

Seems terrible in something like ranked... What point does this buff even were outside all any where consig is alright

Edit:

Never mind it can find tps ect. I guess that's semi decent

[cob709]

I'm feeling conflicted about this.
On one hand, it's a good buff that will definitely help the Mafia in a positive way without being overpowered or broken.
However, there are roles that are in a much more dire need for a buff, such as Framer and Disguiser.
I feel like we should be trying to bridge the power gap first.

[Soulshade55r]

I'm feeling conflicted about this.
On one hand, it's a good buff that will definitely help the Mafia in a positive way without being overpowered or broken.
However, there are roles that are in a much more dire need for a buff, such as Framer and Disguiser.
I feel like we should be trying to bridge the power gap first.

Currently Disguiser is actually pretty good imo, Disgusing mafia mates as NS and hiding them to Los are great, I will say that spy needs to be reworked as a indirect buff

Framer is shit tier rn

I sound crazy but I think consigilere is actually the second worst Mafia under dizguiser rn
Framer is definitely the wordt mafia

[OreCreeper]

I'm feeling conflicted about this.
On one hand, it's a good buff that will definitely help the Mafia in a positive way without being overpowered or broken.
However, there are roles that are in a much more dire need for a buff, such as Framer and Disguiser.
I feel like we should be trying to bridge the power gap first.

Currently Disguiser is actually pretty good imo, Disgusing mafia mates as NS and hiding them to Los are great, I will say that spy needs to be reworked as a indirect buff

Framer is shit tier rn

I sound crazy but I think consigilere is actually the second worst Mafia under dizguiser rn
Framer is definitely the wordt mafia

Yeah, I'm starting to feel the framer role has no need to exist. I mean disguiser already fools sheriff and investigator and fools a lot of other TI as well so either remove that ability from disguiser and give it to framer and rework disguiser back to something similar to disguiser V2 or just delete framer. Disguiser is really good rn though, I've had games where disguiser got actual TI lynched when they checked a disguised mafia and that mafia member later died. Not to mention having a disguiser means you can kill anyone without having to worry about lookout. Consigliere would probably be like a low B/C tier mafia role because it gathers information way too slowly and games are usually decided by N3 unless a miracle happens. Also the TI claiming d2 meta and vfr means that most of the information you gather will be publicly available anyway.

[Soulshade55r]

I think I posted this before but rn Mafia is like:
S - Consort/Ambusher
A - Forger/Janitor/(Mafioso) *Only counting random spawn mafioso like on the first role list
B - Disguiser/Blackmailer/Hypnotist
C - Consigilere
D - Framer

I was debating on putting hypno in C but I find it can offer a lot at times to help with fake claims but generally is only good at not hard confirming transporters. I dunno I haven't seen hypno do that much currently but I feel like it has potential

Ambusher also seems weird for S tier but I've had really good ambushers and yikes 2 kills is very strong.
Consort easily really good.

Forger/Janitor invalidate a lot of the claim space, to be fair medium games generally just hurt these roles too much.

Bmer gets way more info then consig and has the ability to silence someone like Jailor, Normally I claim Lo after a Lo sees me visit the jailor and posts all results and cause a missexe

Disg already discussed why this is good.

Consig has very niche good situations like finding witches/exe but generally I find that witch finds mafia anyway a lot of the time.

Framer just sucks even with buffs he feels genuinely pretty useless spy invalidates this role too much aswell, tailor/hiding someone is always better imo

[picklepower]

I'm feeling conflicted about this.
On one hand, it's a good buff that will definitely help the Mafia in a positive way without being overpowered or broken.
However, there are roles that are in a much more dire need for a buff, such as Framer and Disguiser.
I feel like we should be trying to bridge the power gap first.

Currently Disguiser is actually pretty good imo, Disgusing mafia mates as NS and hiding them to Los are great, I will say that spy needs to be reworked as a indirect buff

Framer is shit tier rn

I sound crazy but I think consigilere is actually the second worst Mafia under dizguiser rn
Framer is definitely the wordt mafia

Consigliere is my favorite role, and buffing it would be even better

[Soulshade55r]

I'm feeling conflicted about this.
On one hand, it's a good buff that will definitely help the Mafia in a positive way without being overpowered or broken.
However, there are roles that are in a much more dire need for a buff, such as Framer and Disguiser.
I feel like we should be trying to bridge the power gap first.

Currently Disguiser is actually pretty good imo, Disgusing mafia mates as NS and hiding them to Los are great, I will say that spy needs to be reworked as a indirect buff

Framer is shit tier rn

I sound crazy but I think consigilere is actually the second worst Mafia under dizguiser rn
Framer is definitely the wordt mafia

Consigliere is my favorite role, and buffing it would be even better

I like playing consig especially compared to framer but it's definitely not that useful imo

[ThePainIsReal]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

[cookies4you]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

[ThePainIsReal]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

Not in game modes like All Any.
Especially in coven all any, Consigliere is extraordinarily valuable. In Coven All Any, there's usually anywhere from 3 to 8 actual townies. Lets assume that of these 15 townies, 6 are town. 4 are mafia. The rest are evils. So, lets assume 3 people die n1. 1 is mafia, the other 2 are town. 4 town, 3 mafia, 5 evils. That means that consig can have great value to the mafia, as after a couple nights pass mafia will have lots of info and getting it quickly.
With this new buff, consig in all any will be EXTREMELY overpowered.

[OreCreeper]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

Not in game modes like All Any.
Especially in coven all any, Consigliere is extraordinarily valuable. In Coven All Any, there's usually anywhere from 3 to 8 actual townies. Lets assume that of these 15 townies, 6 are town. 4 are mafia. The rest are evils. So, lets assume 3 people die n1. 1 is mafia, the other 2 are town. 4 town, 3 mafia, 5 evils. That means that consig can have great value to the mafia, as after a couple nights pass mafia will have lots of info and getting it quickly.
With this new buff, consig in all any will be EXTREMELY overpowered.

Yeah all any also happens to have a random number of opposing evil factions, or all 11 other players could be townies. You could be in a game with 2 arsonists or 3 SKs. Does consig still seem OP in that scenario? Mafia is still extremely weak in all any because every role except GF can be easily killed, and even GF is also in danger due to the sheer number of killers that have powerful attack or higher, especially in CAA. Mafia getting a bit of extra info in AA/CAA is not OP at all, it just makes mafia slightly better at combatting the unpredictability of those gamemodes. Even with this consig buff, it's easy as shit to have your entire team die n2 from multi-arsonist or SK games.

[cookies4you]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

Not in game modes like All Any.
Especially in coven all any, Consigliere is extraordinarily valuable. In Coven All Any, there's usually anywhere from 3 to 8 actual townies. Lets assume that of these 15 townies, 6 are town. 4 are mafia. The rest are evils. So, lets assume 3 people die n1. 1 is mafia, the other 2 are town. 4 town, 3 mafia, 5 evils. That means that consig can have great value to the mafia, as after a couple nights pass mafia will have lots of info and getting it quickly.
With this new buff, consig in all any will be EXTREMELY overpowered.

All Any is an inherently imbalanced game mode that has zero relevance to serious game balance discussions.

[OreCreeper]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

Not in game modes like All Any.
Especially in coven all any, Consigliere is extraordinarily valuable. In Coven All Any, there's usually anywhere from 3 to 8 actual townies. Lets assume that of these 15 townies, 6 are town. 4 are mafia. The rest are evils. So, lets assume 3 people die n1. 1 is mafia, the other 2 are town. 4 town, 3 mafia, 5 evils. That means that consig can have great value to the mafia, as after a couple nights pass mafia will have lots of info and getting it quickly.
With this new buff, consig in all any will be EXTREMELY overpowered.

All Any is an inherently imbalanced game mode that has zero relevance to serious game balance discussions.

that too

[ThePainIsReal]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

Not in game modes like All Any.
Especially in coven all any, Consigliere is extraordinarily valuable. In Coven All Any, there's usually anywhere from 3 to 8 actual townies. Lets assume that of these 15 townies, 6 are town. 4 are mafia. The rest are evils. So, lets assume 3 people die n1. 1 is mafia, the other 2 are town. 4 town, 3 mafia, 5 evils. That means that consig can have great value to the mafia, as after a couple nights pass mafia will have lots of info and getting it quickly.
With this new buff, consig in all any will be EXTREMELY overpowered.

All Any is an inherently imbalanced game mode that has zero relevance to serious game balance discussions.

ruining two of the most popular game modes to buff a single role isn't great for the game

[JCRFM]

I like being “confirmed” as consig. Everyone trusts me. Then they lynch me because they find out I’m consig.

[cookies4you]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

Not in game modes like All Any.
Especially in coven all any, Consigliere is extraordinarily valuable. In Coven All Any, there's usually anywhere from 3 to 8 actual townies. Lets assume that of these 15 townies, 6 are town. 4 are mafia. The rest are evils. So, lets assume 3 people die n1. 1 is mafia, the other 2 are town. 4 town, 3 mafia, 5 evils. That means that consig can have great value to the mafia, as after a couple nights pass mafia will have lots of info and getting it quickly.
With this new buff, consig in all any will be EXTREMELY overpowered.

All Any is an inherently imbalanced game mode that has zero relevance to serious game balance discussions.

ruining two of the most popular game modes to buff a single role isn't great for the game

Abandoning Town of Salem's core game mode just because you didn't want to make an unbalanced meme mode slightly less fun isn't great for the game.

[OreCreeper]

this is way too overpowered in my opinion, consig is already really powerful as it is, if consig had these buffs we'd have to make consig a neutral benign role to make it not ruin the game

Consigliere is the second-weakest Mafia role in the game. It's actually the worst Mafia role with a functional ability because Framer is clearly a joke.

Figuring out exact roles simply does not matter to the Mafia. The Town doesn't need to lie about their roles outside of fringe cases like finding the Mayor, a Doctor, or a Vigilante. Sure you can find the Witch, but the Mafioso can also find the Witch and the Witch can also find the Mafia. You are better off with literally any other Random Mafia (not Framer, Framer is irredeemable) because they can at least do something at Night.

Not in game modes like All Any.
Especially in coven all any, Consigliere is extraordinarily valuable. In Coven All Any, there's usually anywhere from 3 to 8 actual townies. Lets assume that of these 15 townies, 6 are town. 4 are mafia. The rest are evils. So, lets assume 3 people die n1. 1 is mafia, the other 2 are town. 4 town, 3 mafia, 5 evils. That means that consig can have great value to the mafia, as after a couple nights pass mafia will have lots of info and getting it quickly.
With this new buff, consig in all any will be EXTREMELY overpowered.

All Any is an inherently imbalanced game mode that has zero relevance to serious game balance discussions.

ruining two of the most popular game modes to buff a single role isn't great for the game

Please read what I wrote before.

Mafia can easily be obliterated in all any by random spawning NKs and shit like that. This version of consig isn't even as OP as you think in all any. Yes, there might be games where consig would be OP but there are also other games where consig is not as powerful. It's swing, yes, and if all any were considered a competitive gamemode, this version of consig would suck for it. But the swing is an inherent part of all any, so I find it funny that you're complaining about it here. If you desire the kind of "ranked-style balance" but want a more casual gamemode, I suggest something like Town Traitor. All Any is inherently swing-based.

[OreCreeper]

Bump cuz consig really needs a buff atm. After the buffs to RM it's probably one of the worst RMs in the game, probably next in line to framer in terms of how useless it is. Even hypno (which is situational af) is like 10x better than this role.

Also, framer can be fixed by making frames hide people from being seen by the lookout (which can be helpful to excuse why your GF claiming BG didn't visit the tp/lo request N1). Also, whoever the framed person visited should show up as a mafia visit to the spy. This can be helpful for a number of purposes, including tricking town into thinking a TI's target was framed by framing that TI. If this was implemented, I believe framer should either have their frames revert back to only one-night frames or have their frames become fully-permanent for the sake of consistency.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Bump cuz consig really needs a buff atm. After the buffs to RM it's probably one of the worst RMs in the game, probably next in line to framer in terms of how useless it is. Even hypno (which is situational af) is like 10x better than this role.

Also, framer can be fixed by making frames hide people from being seen by the lookout (which can be helpful to excuse why your GF claiming BG didn't visit the tp/lo request N1). Also, whoever the framed person visited should show up as a mafia visit to the spy. This can be helpful for a number of purposes, including tricking town into thinking a TI's target was framed by framing that TI. If this was implemented, I believe framer should either have their frames revert back to only one-night frames or have their frames become fully-permanent for the sake of consistency.

I just suggested that consig ability should be a day ability and all the mafia is notified of the results

[OreCreeper]

Bump cuz consig really needs a buff atm. After the buffs to RM it's probably one of the worst RMs in the game, probably next in line to framer in terms of how useless it is. Even hypno (which is situational af) is like 10x better than this role.

Also, framer can be fixed by making frames hide people from being seen by the lookout (which can be helpful to excuse why your GF claiming BG didn't visit the tp/lo request N1). Also, whoever the framed person visited should show up as a mafia visit to the spy. This can be helpful for a number of purposes, including tricking town into thinking a TI's target was framed by framing that TI. If this was implemented, I believe framer should either have their frames revert back to only one-night frames or have their frames become fully-permanent for the sake of consistency.

I just suggested that consig ability should be a day ability and all the mafia is notified of the results

That won't do anything since it doesn't change the fact that it gathers information too slowly to be of any real use to the mafia. It still suffers from most of the problems the role currently suffers from.

[Paradox12]

This feels like a good suggestion.

[CapWarrior2]

There are <x> instances of your target's role alive currently.

Seems too OP.

There are <z> instances of your target's faction alive currently.

Seems Pointless in Ranked.

There are <y> instances of your target's alignment alive currently.

Seems Perfect, not too OP or UP

[Paradox12]

There are <x> instances of your target's role alive currently.

Seems too OP.

There are <z> instances of your target's faction alive currently.

Seems Pointless in Ranked.

There are <y> instances of your target's alignment alive currently.

Seems Perfect, not too OP or UP

In ranked it's pretty balanced, considering every visit carries the downside of confirming your target as non-mafia to the spy. This just makes it so checking a sheriff or something actually yields some fruitful info instead of confirming an otherwise suspicious claim to the spy and getting no useful info since they will be claiming anyway.