Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

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Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:33 am

Role Name: Gunman


Role Alignment: Neutral (Chaos)


Abilities:-Shoot someone at night, or hide yourself.


Attributes: You are able to shoot someone at night to deal a Powerful attack, or hide yourself to gain Basic Defense, Control Immunity, Roleblock Immunity, and role-masking from Consiglieres and Potion Masters. Shooting a Non-Mafia or Non-Coven will result in you unable to attack or hide the next night. Hiding has 4 uses.


Notifications:
"You have decided to shoot John Proctor tonight."
"You instead decided to shoot Mary Warren tonight."
"You have decided to hide yourself from sight tonight."
"You instead decided to hide yourself from sight tonight."
"You have decided to put your gun away for the night for shooting a non-Mafia."
"Someone tried to roleblock you while you were hiding!"
"A witch tried to control you while you were hiding!"
"Someone tried to attack you but they couldn't find you!"


Goal: Live to see the Mafia and/or Coven lose the game.


Win Conditions:
You must kill the Mafia
You must kill the Coven
You win with the Town
You win with Survivors
You win with Serial Killers
You win with Arsonists
You win with the Werewolf
You win with the Gunman
You win with Vampires
You win with the Juggernaut
You win with the Plaguebearer
You win with Pestilence
You may spare anyone else.


Special Attributes:
Unique
Role Block Immune (While Hidden)
Control Immune (While Hidden)
Priority: 5


Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is suspicious!
Investigator - Your target could be a Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Pirate, Ambusher, or Gunman.
Consigliere - Your target seeks revenge on the Mafia. They must be a Gunman. -OR- Your target simply wants to live. They must be a Survivor.

Achievements:

Revenge: Win 1 game as a Gunman. +20 MP
Gunslinger: Win 5 games as a Gunman. +20 MP
Trained Killer: Win 10 games as a Gunman. +40 MP
Gang-Star: Win 25 games as a Gunman. +100 MP
Enemy of the Mafia: Take Down all 4 Mafia in a game. +50 MP
Sorry!: Shoot a Survivor +50 MP
Badass: Single-handedly take out every Mafia and Coven in a game. +200 MP
Gun and Knife: Win with a Serial Killer. +40 MP
Unlikely Duo: Win with Pestilence. +40 MP


Lore:

You are a scarred individual who seeks to end the Mafia.

Please leave any suggestions and feedback in the comments! :D
Last edited by nlove77 on Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby deadlyblack » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:55 am

I like this concept. The hidden ability is unique, and I like the idea that there is a role who is specifically against the mafia/coven (though I think it should just be specifically the mafia, or else it would be too close of a town role).

Will there be a number of shots that the Gunman can shoot?
The consequences for shooting a non-mafia don't seem to be balanced, maybe he should lose the ability to Hide for the night, instead of putting his gun away? This would allow for him to be susceptible to attacks.

So if an invest investigates a Hidden Gunman, they will get results for Survivor, right?
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:03 am

deadlyblack wrote:I like this concept. The hidden ability is unique, and I like the idea that there is a role who is specifically against the mafia/coven (though I think it should just be specifically the mafia, or else it would be too close of a town role).

Will there be a number of shots that the Gunman can shoot?
The consequences for shooting a non-mafia don't seem to be balanced, maybe he should lose the ability to Hide for the night, instead of putting his gun away? This would allow for him to be susceptible to attacks.

So if an invest investigates a Hidden Gunman, they will get results for Survivor, right?


The reason why he puts away his gun is to balance his killing mechanic. technically, he can kill infinitely, but he is punished if he just shoots willy-nilly.
I do like the idea of his hiding mechanic being taken away as puishment for killing randomly.
His detection immunity is for Consiglieres and Potion Masters. He can still be seen by Sheriffs and Investigators.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:35 am

The role seems ok, but detection inmunity only means you appear as innocent to sheriff, it doesnt affects consig or PM
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby CapWarrior2 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:26 pm

what happens if no more coven/maf leftbut lets say still ww left. Does he still win or does he lose if he dies to ww?
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby Paradox12 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:51 pm

CapWarrior2 wrote:what happens if no more coven/maf leftbut lets say still ww left. Does he still win or does he lose if he dies to ww?

He would probably win cuz it doesn't say anything about anyone else other than maf/coven.

Anyway this is literally just a buffed vigilante.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:32 am

Paradox12 wrote:
CapWarrior2 wrote:what happens if no more coven/maf leftbut lets say still ww left. Does he still win or does he lose if he dies to ww?

He would probably win cuz it doesn't say anything about anyone else other than maf/coven.

Anyway this is literally just a buffed vigilante.


is there any way i can improve this role?
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:35 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:The role seems ok, but detection inmunity only means you appear as innocent to sheriff, it doesnt affects consig or PM


changed it to be more on-point. thank you.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Sat May 08, 2021 11:10 pm

Nerfed Hiding.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby alex1234321 » Sun May 09, 2021 7:13 am

Seems like an objectively buffed Vigilante to me. The only difference in its wincon compared to Town is that it can win with NKs, which don't exist in Ranked atm and rarely win anyway. So in practice, it's far more likely to side with Town. From what I see, it has unlimited shots with a much smaller punishment than Vigilante. The basic defense that hiding gives makes it even more powerful.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby CloverPlayah » Sun May 09, 2021 12:32 pm

The role idea is interesting, and makes Mafia extra careful for this type of business, despite Town's numbers and info gathering roles.. it seems a little stressful to tag the Gunman against the Mafia/Coven only with the added effects of Town hunting them down too, which can be more than enough.

So to prevent it from being a town-sided, buffed neutral Vigilante, perhaps it's presence can have a rather crushing disadvantage on the Town? This would make it apparent that a Gunman exists. The Gunman should also be marked as suspicious to Town investigatives, forcing the Gunman to decide whether to fakeclaim and risk getting his lie outted, or reveal himself as Gunman and maybe survive a lynch, but have Mafia after their head. Mafia can also fakeclaim Gunman to survive lynches, even though the real Gunman can shoot them, it still has strategy with correct pulls.

But this would make it rather similar to Vampires and the Vampire Hunter, and since the VH is Townie they just leave him alone usually and the Vampires can't deal with their counter.. unlike Gunman, which refers to my suggestion on them having a disadvantage on Town with his existence. Something like all votes are hidden as the Gunman remains alive (for accusations and trial results). This gives Mafia the ability to sway different votes, and usually forces town leaders (Mayor, Jailor) to come out to lead pushes, but the Mafia themselves can not be incriminated by the voting log, so it severly hurts Town by cutting away information, despite the fact it's goal is to kill the Mafia.

This is just my suggestion though with roles that are designed against a specific faction, to always have drawbacks on the side they would theoretically help with their abilities.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby runningwiththepower » Tue May 11, 2021 1:11 am

CloverPlayah wrote:The role idea is interesting, and makes Mafia extra careful for this type of business, despite Town's numbers and info gathering roles.. it seems a little stressful to tag the Gunman against the Mafia/Coven only with the added effects of Town hunting them down too, which can be more than enough.

So to prevent it from being a town-sided, buffed neutral Vigilante, perhaps it's presence can have a rather crushing disadvantage on the Town? This would make it apparent that a Gunman exists. The Gunman should also be marked as suspicious to Town investigatives, forcing the Gunman to decide whether to fakeclaim and risk getting his lie outted, or reveal himself as Gunman and maybe survive a lynch, but have Mafia after their head. Mafia can also fakeclaim Gunman to survive lynches, even though the real Gunman can shoot them, it still has strategy with correct pulls.

But this would make it rather similar to Vampires and the Vampire Hunter, and since the VH is Townie they just leave him alone usually and the Vampires can't deal with their counter.. unlike Gunman, which refers to my suggestion on them having a disadvantage on Town with his existence. Something like all votes are hidden as the Gunman remains alive (for accusations and trial results). This gives Mafia the ability to sway different votes, and usually forces town leaders (Mayor, Jailor) to come out to lead pushes, but the Mafia themselves can not be incriminated by the voting log, so it severly hurts Town by cutting away information, despite the fact it's goal is to kill the Mafia.

This is just my suggestion though with roles that are designed against a specific faction, to always have drawbacks on the side they would theoretically help with their abilities.


I definitely like the idea of having Gunman (i dont really like the name tho lol) being Sus to TI. And the fact that its hiding gives it Basic Defense (usually a dead giveaway of an Evil role to Townies) would make it a bit more complex.

I like the role though! I think with those ^ changes, it could really work. I especially really like how it Wins by seeing the Major Evil Factions lose, that is a unique twist! :D
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Wed May 12, 2021 3:10 am

I've read everyone's replies, and I will try to revise Gunman to the best of my ability.

Most seem to say that Gunman will most likely side with town, or that they are a buffed Vigilante.

I will make sure to address these problems.

Thank you.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Wed May 12, 2021 3:17 am

CloverPlayah wrote:The role idea is interesting, and makes Mafia extra careful for this type of business, despite Town's numbers and info gathering roles.. it seems a little stressful to tag the Gunman against the Mafia/Coven only with the added effects of Town hunting them down too, which can be more than enough.

So to prevent it from being a town-sided, buffed neutral Vigilante, perhaps it's presence can have a rather crushing disadvantage on the Town? This would make it apparent that a Gunman exists. The Gunman should also be marked as suspicious to Town investigatives, forcing the Gunman to decide whether to fakeclaim and risk getting his lie outted, or reveal himself as Gunman and maybe survive a lynch, but have Mafia after their head. Mafia can also fakeclaim Gunman to survive lynches, even though the real Gunman can shoot them, it still has strategy with correct pulls.

But this would make it rather similar to Vampires and the Vampire Hunter, and since the VH is Townie they just leave him alone usually and the Vampires can't deal with their counter.. unlike Gunman, which refers to my suggestion on them having a disadvantage on Town with his existence. Something like all votes are hidden as the Gunman remains alive (for accusations and trial results). This gives Mafia the ability to sway different votes, and usually forces town leaders (Mayor, Jailor) to come out to lead pushes, but the Mafia themselves can not be incriminated by the voting log, so it severly hurts Town by cutting away information, despite the fact it's goal is to kill the Mafia.

This is just my suggestion though with roles that are designed against a specific faction, to always have drawbacks on the side they would theoretically help with their abilities.


In my opinion, having the Gunman passively interfere with town just doesn't sound right, Why would the Gunman, trying to hunt down the mafia, mess with the town? it just feels weird. So, I'll change the sheriff results to make Gunman claims more fake-able.
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby nlove77 » Wed May 12, 2021 3:19 am

Updated Sheriff results
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby CloverPlayah » Wed May 12, 2021 6:56 pm

In my opinion, having the Gunman passively interfere with town just doesn't sound right, Why would the Gunman, trying to hunt down the mafia, mess with the town? it just feels weird. So, I'll change the sheriff results to make Gunman claims more fake-able.


I said this cuz I personally didn't wanna see it be a neutral buffed self defending Vigilante, as some people will commonly say and just disregard your idea simply because of that.. it sucks.

Added that disadvantage so there was also some type of difference in gameplay, it's Neutral Chaos after all?
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby MarsGodofWar » Thu May 13, 2021 4:56 am

Shouldn't win with Town that's just broken as fuck, basically an overpowered Vigilante
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Re: Gunman - Neutral (Chaos)

Postby ak521 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:17 pm

Win Condition must be a typo. Should not win with town or it's a town role.
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