Role Idea - Lie Detector (Town Investigative)

[deadlyblack]

Role Name:
Lie Detector

Role Alignment:
Town Investigative

Summary:

The Lie Detector uses his advanced polygraph test to determine whether or not a player is lying.

Abilities:

First Test
-Target a player at night to make them take a polygraph test.
**You have a selection of one of the Town alignments
This gives insight into a player's role's function (support, protective, killing, or investigative).**

Second Test
-Re-targeting a player grants the Lie Detector more precise information
**This gives further insight into a player's role's faction (town, mafia, neutral, coven).**

The Lie Detector will receive a "Yes" or "No" at the end of the night.
The Lie Detector will know if a player is a Deception alignment on the first test.

Immunities:

Attack: None
Defense: None

Special Attributes:

You will not be deceived by deceptions

-If target player was framed, the Lie Detector will see through this.

Ability Stats:

Type = Investigative / Non-Unique
Priority = 4

Notifications:

Lie Detector: You've decided to send [Player] to take the polygraph test tonight.

Lie Detector (1st): The polygraph test came in, the answer was Yes!
Lie Detector (if Deception Alignment): The polygraph test came in, your target is lying!
Lie Detector (1st): incorrect: The polygraph test came in, the answer was No!

Lie Detector (2nd) correct: The polygraph test came in, the answer was Yes!
Lie Detector (2nd) incorrect: The polygraph test came in, the answer was No!

Goal:

Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Win Conditions:

Town / Survivor
Kill everyone else

Investigator Results:

Sheriff - You cannot find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.
Investigator - Lookout, Forger, Witch, or Lie Detector
Consigliere - Your target uses machinery to gather information. They must be the Lie Detector.

Additional Information:

For this role, you would first have to categorize all roles in game into one of the town alignments.

Town Protective / Town Support / Town Investigative / Town Killing

First test:

*TP: Bodyguard, Crusader, Doctor, Trapper, Godfather, Survivor, Guardian Angel, Executioner, Plague bearer

*TS: Transporter, Escort, Mayor, Medium, Retributionist, Consort, Blackmailer, Jester, Amnesiac, Hex Master, Necromancer

*TI: Sheriff, Invest, Spy, Lookout, Tracker, Psychic, Lie Detector, Consigliere, Vampire, Witch, Coven Leader, Potion Master

*TK: Jailor, Vigilante, Veteran, Vampire Hunter, Mafioso, Ambusher, Arsonist, Juggernaut, Serial Killer, Pirate, Pestilence, Medusa, Poisoner

Second Test:

He has a selection from the four factions

Town, Mafia, Neutral, Coven

------------------------------------

Mafia Deception roles will be found on the first Polygraph test.

**MD: Disguiser, Forger, Framer, Hypnotist, Janitor


His special attribute allows him to find deception roles well, since they do not fit into any category (of the town)

[RiceHatMan]

Couple of things. Firstly, change the priority to 4, since that is the normal for investigatives, or else this role would be role block and control immune. Secondly, if this role visits their target, they need to follow transports, or you can make a weird exception. Thirdly, this role contains a large amount of chance, since you can guess without reliable information and get evils for no good reason. Fourthly, this is a worse Sheriff.

[cob709]

This is too powerful, it goes through GF's detection immunity and can literally confirm every player in the town.
Also, Mafia has no way to counter this, it's even more powerful than the investigator.

It could look like this: (I do not know how to paste an image into my post, if anyone could help me <3)

This is how you use the Image tag, it will put the entire image onto your post, so make sure it fits.

Code: Select all

[img](IMAGE URL)[/img]

If it doesn't, try using the simg tag.

Code: Select all

[simg=width,height](IMG URL)[/simg]

Though, I think you need to be a trusted user to use images.

[deadlyblack]

Couple of things. Firstly, change the priority to 4, since that is the normal for investigatives, or else this role would be role block and control immune. Secondly, if this role visits their target, they need to follow transports, or you can make a weird exception. Thirdly, this role contains a large amount of chance, since you can guess without reliable information and get evils for no good reason. Fourthly, this is a worse Sheriff.

1) That is false, the Ambusher is not role block immunity/control immune and they are priority 1. Priority = Which role has the first effect on a player, essentially.
2) If this role visits a target who was transported, I mention, that they follow the player.
3) Yes, it does involve a large amount of chance: chance + claiming a role + in combination with other investigative roles = more accurate results. The chance that an individual finds the exact role very early on is very small, since the town lacks information and people still have not claimed roles. For example, a player claims they're survivor, you can send them to the polygraph test to see if they actually are.
4) I disagree.

[deadlyblack]

This is too powerful, it goes through GF's detection immunity and can literally confirm every player in the town.
Also, Mafia has no way to counter this, it's even more powerful than the investigator.

It could look like this: (I do not know how to paste an image into my post, if anyone could help me <3)

This is how you use the Image tag, it will put the entire image onto your post, so make sure it fits.

Code: Select all

[img](IMAGE URL)[/img]

If it doesn't, try using the simg tag.

Code: Select all

[simg=width,height](IMG URL)[/simg]

Though, I think you need to be a trusted user to use images.

Read my post above (3), I don't think it's OP.

And thank you, I'll try that.

[cob709]

3) Yes, it does involve a large amount of chance: chance + claiming a role + in combination with other investigative roles = more accurate results. The chance that an individual finds the exact role very early on is very small, since the town lacks information and people still have not claimed roles. For example, a player claims they're survivor, you can send them to the polygraph test to see if they actually are.

This role can check anyone that has claimed and observe if they're the role that they claim or not.
If No -> 100% Certainty they're lying, and thus evil.
If Yes -> 100% Certainty they're truthful, and thus town.

Come on, there can't be absolute certainty. There needs to be reasonable doubt.

[deadlyblack]

This role can check anyone that has claimed and observe if they're the role that they claim or not.
If No -> 100% Certainty they're lying, and thus evil.
If Yes -> 100% Certainty they're truthful, and thus town.

Come on, there can't be absolute certainty. There needs to be reasonable doubt.

I understand what you're saying, but I think it won't be that simple. There's 14 people in the game (not including yourself) and of those 14 people only some of them will claim a role early on. Lets say someone claims they're a spy day one, you make them do the test n1 and it comes out that yeah, he was a spy. The game can take any direction from there. The spy claim can die n1 then you waste your results on a dead spy... By the time you try to figure out if a guy is a towny or not, they could be dead, or worse, you could die in the process. Ofc, there's trolls as well and all these other variables that influence the direction of the game.

[RiceHatMan]

1) That is false, the Ambusher is not role block immunity/control immune and they are priority 1. Priority = Which role has the first effect on a player, essentially.

What... Ambusher doesn't have a priority of 1. It gets a bit complicated when you include Transporter, but Ambusher doesn't have a priority of 1. Priority is the order in which the actions are done.

[deadlyblack]

1) That is false, the Ambusher is not role block immunity/control immune and they are priority 1. Priority = Which role has the first effect on a player, essentially.

What... Ambusher doesn't have a priority of 1. It gets a bit complicated when you include Transporter, but Ambusher doesn't have a priority of 1. Priority is the order in which the actions are done.

Scroll down to Priority https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/Attribute

[RiceHatMan]

Scroll down to Priority https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/Attribute

Well, prove it. Show me where the information came from.
EDIT: Here is the first edit to add it: https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/A ... did=213241

It was just some random person, so they might have just added it as a guess or something. Keep in mind they also added Pirate to priority 1, so the information about Ambusher could definitely be wrong. Don't assume all the wiki is correct.

[deadlyblack]

Scroll down to Priority https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/Attribute

Well, prove it. Show me where the information came from.
EDIT: Here is the first edit to add it: https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/A ... did=213241

It was just some random person, so they might have just added it as a guess or something. Keep in mind they also added Pirate to priority 1, so the information about Ambusher could definitely be wrong. Don't assume all the wiki is correct.

Anyway, my point was that the Ambusher does not have role block or control immunity, and so leaving the priority as 1 makes sense for this role, and does not grant him role block or control immunity.

Since the Lie Detector is not deceived by deception (framers), that puts them above a priority 4.
Since the Lie Detector is not deceived by transportations, that puts them a priority above transporters.

-- This is because the action of the Lie Detector is an astral one.

[RiceHatMan]

Anyway, my point was that the Ambusher does not have role block or control immunity, and so leaving the priority as 1 makes sense for this role, and does not grant him role block or control immunity.

Since the Lie Detector is not deceived by deception (framers), that puts them above a priority 4.
Since the Lie Detector is not deceived by transportations, that puts them a priority above transporters.

-- This is because the action of the Lie Detector is an astral one.

Being role block and control immune doesn't mean you have to be at a higher priority. Going through frames doesn't mean you have to have a higher priority either, it just means you go through frames. Astral visits are affected by transports, but you can just make this an indirect visit and it will be fine. Going through transports doesn't mean you have to have a higher priority, it just means you have an indirect ability (as seen by Guardian Angel).

[deadlyblack]

Couple of things. Firstly, change the priority to 4, since that is the normal for investigatives, or else this role would be role block and control immune. Secondly, if this role visits their target, they need to follow transports, or you can make a weird exception. Thirdly, this role contains a large amount of chance, since you can guess without reliable information and get evils for no good reason. Fourthly, this is a worse Sheriff.

Being role block and control immune doesn't mean you have to be at a higher priority. Going through frames doesn't mean you have to have a higher priority either, it just means you go through frames. Astral visits are affected by transports, but you can just make this an indirect visit and it will be fine. Going through transports doesn't mean you have to have a higher priority, it just means you have an indirect ability (as seen by Guardian Angel).

Astral visits are indirect visits. The priority of this will remain one because it will get an answer from a target BEFORE they are framed, and BEFORE they are transported.

[KAKERMAN23]

1. this role is overpowered since it can literally confirm roles and isnt even affected by transports (and, as has already been said, can't be countered by any of mafia's roles)
2. polygraph tests irl arent even that good, let alone foolproof, so the accuracy of this role's results doesnt make sense (yes, i know "balance over lore" but there isn't balance here so)
3. why does it have astral visits? that doesn't make sense and only makes the role even more overpowered.

[deadlyblack]

1. this role is overpowered since it can literally confirm roles and isnt even affected by transports (and, as has already been said, can't be countered by any of mafia's roles)
2. polygraph tests irl arent even that good, let alone foolproof, so the accuracy of this role's results doesnt make sense (yes, i know "balance over lore" but there isn't balance here so)
3. why does it have astral visits? that doesn't make sense and only makes the role even more overpowered.

1) He can be controlled, he can be roleblocked, he can be killed.
2) Ik that, but he has an "advanced" one lol.. it's also a game.
3) Astral visits because he makes the target take the test, and he receives the results at home. I could change it I guess to make him susceptible to Ambushers.

[KAKERMAN23]

1. i never said he couldn't, im just saying that mafia can't deceive him or anything, the best they can do is rb him if they have a consort and kill him. he's overpowered because he can confirm if someone is lying and can bypass transporting
2. idk why i even brought this up lol
3. this role is already powerful enough, he should be susceptible to any visit related events, so yeah def make it not an astral visit

[RiceHatMan]

Astral visits are indirect visits. The priority of this will remain one because it will get an answer from a target BEFORE they are framed, and BEFORE they are transported.

Astral visits are different, they are still affected by jail and transports. Indirect ones are not. If you want it to have a priority of 1, then go for it.

[Soulshade55r]

Not a fan of this don't think it's a good idea or is needed.

[Brilliand]

This is almost the same as Kikigiri's Investigator rework, which was awesome... so I don't get why this is getting such negative feedback.

Kirigiri's version was better, though.

[deadlyblack]

This is almost the same as Kikigiri's Investigator rework, which was awesome... so I don't get why this is getting such negative feedback.

Kirigiri's version was better, though.

That is an interesting mechanic they introduce to the invest, and would make the invest equivalent to the consig, except it takes slightly longer to find their role.

What differentiates my concept and with Kirigiri's version is that the Lie Detector has a special attribute, which stops it from obtaining false information. There is a larger chance aspect to this role that I am introducing, and the individual needs to be paying attention to who to investigate and who not to.

[KAKERMAN23]

but creating false information is, like, the mafia's main thing. having a role that automatically prevents false info from being sent to you takes out a lot of skill, since being able to tell if the info you got was made by a framer or a disg or what have you is an important skill to have in order to be good at the game.

[Brilliand]

Yep; Kikigiri explicitly made sure that her Investigator rework could be deceived, and that's part of what makes it good. Having an attribute "cannot be deceived by false information" is a bad idea for a Town role.

[deadlyblack]

but creating false information is, like, the mafia's main thing. having a role that automatically prevents false info from being sent to you takes out a lot of skill, since being able to tell if the info you got was made by a framer or a disg or what have you is an important skill to have in order to be good at the game.

Deception is a large part of the mafia's "thing" I agree. When I made this role, the intention was to not receive false info from framers and transports, and not disguisers. Disguiser can be a hard counter to the lie detector.

[KAKERMAN23]

but why should there be a ti role that isnt deceived by framers and isnt affected by transports? it just doesnt seem balanced

[syjfwbaobfwl]

but why should there be a ti role that isnt deceived by framers and isnt affected by transports? it just doesnt seem balanced

Yeah this role is very unbalanced, a TI not being afected by trans (one of the only trans weakneses) just doesnt makes sense, you CANT have higher priority than escort and witch without being rb and control inmune, otherwise you would get results before the rb and would visit two people if you are controlled

Astral visits are just not needed, they make the role more OP than it aleady is, you can do whatever you want without having fear to crus, vet, ambusher, medusa, etc

Not being decieved by fake info is just stupid, it ruins the point of like half of the mafia roles