The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own members!

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The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own members!

Postby SomeCatchyName9 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:08 am

The Cult is a very unique faction which has to sacrifice its own members to become more and more powerful. I know people here usually hate conversion roles but please at least read the Summary (and preferably the role cards as well) before commenting.

Summary:
  • If there is only one living Cultist, they can convert someone into a Cultist in the same way as a Vampire (with the same roles immune to conversion). Vampires and Cultists are immune to being converted by each other.
  • If there are two (or more) living Cultists, they do not have any night actions. In most games, there will only ever be a maximum of two living Cultists for this reason, unless an Amnesiac remembers they are a Cultist.
  • Cultists can communicate with each other at night, whether they are alive or dead.
  • When a Cultist is lynched during the day, they will become one of the Ghost, Seer or Demon, which all have abilities that can be used while dead, to help the Cultists win. There is a set order in which these roles are given to lynched Cultists - it is not random. The first Cultist to be lynched becomes a Ghost, the second becomes a Seer and the third a Demon. The abilities and attributes of each of these roles are explained below.
  • After three Cultists have been lynched, any more lynched Cultists will be able to haunt any one non-Cultist player (no matter how they voted) the night after they are lynched, dealing an Unstoppable attack like the Jester.
  • Lynched Cultists cannot be targeted by any other roles, as they are dead. This means they cannot be roleblocked, witched or tracked by a Tracker for example. They also cannot be killed by any roles such as the Veteran or Bodyguard - for example, if a Bodyguard protects a player against the Ghost's Basic attack, the Bodyguard will die while the Ghost isn't affected. Note that their visits aren't Astral, they are just already dead so they can't die again, but they can be seen by Lookouts.
  • Any lynched Cultists can continue to use their ability until all Cultists have died. Once the last Cultist dies, they will all lose their abilities, and will not get it back even if an Amnesiac later remembers they are a Cultist. It is therefore not a good idea for an Amnesiac to remember Cultist if all the Cultists are dead, as there is no way for the dead Cultists to regain their powers.
The lore of the Cult is that they are normal people without any supernatural abilities (no consistent attack and no defense). Cultists try to convert players into joining the Cult, and if the player refuses (i.e. they are immune to conversions), the Cultist kills them instead. When a Cultist is lynched, they are sacrificed and gain special powers that they can use while dead. Once the Cult is eliminated, they lose these powers as they have failed to take over the town.

Role:
Cultist

Alignment:
Neutral Chaos

Role Card:
Summary:
A follower of the Cult who is willing to be sacrificed
Abilities:
Convert a player to the Cult.
Attributes:
You may only convert a player if you are the only living Cultist.
If your target is immune to conversions, you will deal a Basic attack against them.
If you are lynched, you will gain a night ability, able to aid the Cult to victory from the grave.
Goal:
Kill all who would oppose the Cult.

Win Conditions:
You win with Cultists.
You win with Survivors.
You win with Witches.
You must kill the Town.
You must kill the Mafia.
You must kill the Coven.
You must kill Dictators.
You must kill Vampires.
You must kill Serial Killers.
You must kill Arsonists.
You must kill Werewolves.
You must kill Plaguebringers.
You must kill Pestilence.
You must kill Juggernauts.
You may spare anyone else.

Special Attributes:
Attack:
None
Defense:
None

Investigative results:
Sheriff: Your target is suspicious!
Investigator: Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, Poisoner or Cultist
(Alternatively: Framer, Vampire, Jester, Hex Master, Dictator or Cultist)
Consigliere: Your target wants to be sacrificed. They must be a Cultist.

Ghost:
Abilities:
Haunt a player each night
Attributes:
Haunted players will be roleblocked and dealt a Basic attack.

Explanation:
When the first Cultist is lynched, the Cult unlocks their factional kill. Since Cultists themselves have no night actions (and it may take them a few days to unlock this role), their killing role needs to be stronger than the killing roles of other factions. For that reason I've allowed the Ghost to roleblock their target as well. It also fits with the lore as the target is probably too scared to leave their home.

Seer:
Abilities:
Watch a player each night
Attributes:
You will know your target's role and who they visited that night.

Explanation:
After the second Cultist is lynched, the Cult gains an investigative role. Since players will be wary of Cultists after the first lynch, it will be a lot harder for the Cult to get this role, so I've made it quite powerful - a combination of the Consigliere and Tracker. This can give Cultists claim space (although they often don't need any as they want to be lynched) and also allow them to efficiently convert players as they can see whether a player has a role that is immune to conversions.

Demon:
Abilities:
Possess a player into joining the Cult each night
Attributes:
You will attempt to convert your target to the Cult.
If your target is immune to conversions, you will deal a Powerful attack against them.

Explanation:
If the town lynches three Cultists, they deserve to lose. This is the most powerful Cult role as they can convert players each night, and there is no limit to how large the Cult can become. It is overpowered, but it is supposed to be overpowered because getting three Cultists lynched should be very difficult as all the players will become more cautious after every lynch. It will take the Cultists at least 3 days to get three of their members lynched, and it will usually take more as it's unlikely that three Cultists will be lynched in a row. It will probably take at least 5 or 6 days for the Cult to reach this point, so I think it's acceptable to make them extremely powerful at that point, like how the Plaguebringer and Juggernaut become very powerful in the endgame.

Notifications:
A member of the Cult has been sacrificed! They have become a Ghost/Seer/Demon! - When a Cultist is lynched
A member of the Cult has been sacrificed! They will take their revenge tonight! - When a Cultist is lynched after 3 or more Cultists have already been lynched
They were sacrificed by a Cultist. - When a Cultist tries to convert someone who is immune but has no defense, like a Mafioso.
They were haunted by a Ghost. - When the Ghost kills someone
They were possessed by a Demon. - When a Demon tries to convert someone who is immune but has no defense or only Basic defense.
They were haunted by a sacrificed Cultist. - When the fourth or later Cultist is lynched and they haunt someone.
The Cult has collapsed. You have lost your powers. - The night after the final living Cultist dies.

Questions people will probably ask:
Why can Cultists only convert players if they are the only living Cultist?
The Cult is not supposed to win by numbers, otherwise they would be too similar to the Vampires. Having a soft limit of 2 Cultists forces the Cult to try and get themselves lynched, because without their other roles it would be very difficult for them to win as they won't easily get the voting majority.

Why do the Cultists not have any action when there is more than one of them alive?
Originally I was going to allow them to have a nightly kill when there is more than one living Cultist, but then it would be possible for the Cultists to win without ever getting lynched. Therefore I made them very weak on their own and moved their factional kill to the Ghost, forcing the Cult to get lynched to have a decent chance at winning.

Why are all the Cult roles so powerful?
The Cult will have a hard time getting themselves lynched if it is known that there are Cultists in the game. Since they are so weak on their own (having no attack and no defense), I balanced this by making the Ghost, Seer and Demon extremely powerful, giving the Cult an incentive to keep trying to get themselves lynched.

Why is the Demon so overpowered?
Yes, the Demon is extremely strong. Each night, they either convert someone to the Cult or deal them a Powerful attack, almost guaranteeing that the Cult will have one less enemy the next day. They also can't be roleblocked and aren't affected by alerting Veterans and other roles that usually kill people visiting a certain player. But the Cult completely deserves to get this insanely powerful role if they manage to trick players into lynching a Cultist three times in one game. The Cult also needs to be powerful enough in the endgame to be able to take on the other evils who have defense while the Cult doesn't. If the Cult gets the Demon, they are basically unstoppable as it can kill almost any evil while the Ghost roleblocks them. For that reason, evils also need to work with Town to kill the Cult, much like how Vampires are feared by both Town and other evils.

Strategy:
As a Cultist:
  • The first conversion is usually just based on luck, but in most games there should be two Cultists by Day 2. The Cultists need to get lynched as soon as possible, preferably on Day 2, so the Ghost can start killing as early as possible.
  • There are many ways to trick players into lynching a Cultist, and many of the strategies are similar to the Executioner. The difference is that here, when you accuse the other Cultist, they actually want to be lynched and will play along with your accusation. If you say they were immune, they can say they are a Bodyguard that self-vested, attracting the suspicion of the town.
  • However, if they are revealed as a Cultist, smart players will suspect anyone that accused them of being a Cultist as well. For example, suppose you claim to be a Sheriff and say that the other Cultist came up suspicious. If they are lynched and revealed as a Cultist, many players will suspect that you are the other Cultist and you will most likely be jailed or shot by a Vigilante. Evils may also try to kill you as you are a threat to them as well.
  • You have to get the other Cultist lynched without being the one who accused them. One strategy could be to have one Cultist post a will that is wrong, and have the other one just point out the mistake and wait for another player to realise the error and push them. This can also cause a mislynch later on as anyone who accuses a Cultist and gets them lynched will automatically be under suspicion of being a Cultist themselves.
  • Another strategy could be for both Cultists to counterclaim each other. For example, have one of them claim Retributionist and make the other immediately counterclaim. One of the Retributionist claims will likely be lynched, as the town will think it is just a 1 for 1. The Cultist that wasn't lynched should try their hardest to plead that they are in fact Retributionist, and it will usually be too risky for a Vigilante or Jailor to kill off such an important role. However, beware that evils will not hesitate to kill a player claiming to be a Retributionist if there is a chance they are a Cultist.
  • An ideal situation would be to counterclaim a real Retributionist, get lynched, and then make the town think that the real Retributionist is actually a Cultist, potentially making a Vigilante shoot them.
As a Ghost:
  • The primary goal of the Ghost is to kill off roles that cannot be converted to the Cult, i.e. most evil roles. They can use information gained from the Seer to kill roles that don't have defense but cannot be converted.
  • The Ghost can also freely go after confirmed Town roles without worrying about Bodyguards or Crusaders, as they are already dead so they aren't affected by them. In fact, if the Town Protective is a Bodyguard, this may be a good strategy to kill them off so that the Jailor, Mayor or any other confirmed Town role is exposed to all of the evils.
  • The Ghost can also easily kill a Veteran for the same reason - they can just attack them every night until the Veteran stops alerting.
  • An interesting strategy could be to not kill anyone at all, making players think that the Cultists have all died and the Ghost can no longer kill. Then, living Cultists may be lynched by the town without them even considering that the Cult is still alive, or if evils have majority, they may think the Cultists are Town and lynch them.
As a Seer:
  • You need to investigate potential targets so the Cultists can know whether they can be converted.
  • Your investigative ability is very useful in making fake wills as Cultists can use the information to write believable Investigator, Lookout or Tracker wills. However, it's not always worth having a convincing will as a Cultist, because it makes you less likely to be lynched and more likely to be killed at night by evils.
  • The information gathered by the Seer is much more useful in choosing who to convert and also finding good targets for the Ghost to kill.
As a Demon:
  • If you've become a Demon, the Cult is probably close to winning the game, and if they aren't, they probably will be now because you are their most powerful role.
  • If three Cultists have been lynched, it usually means the Town is not doing well and the evils are dominating the game. So most of the time, the job of the Demon is to find and kill evils that have Basic defense, like the Godfather and Serial Killer.
  • However, if it appears that the Town still has majority, you can just convert Town members and try and make the Cult become the voting majority, which you can do pretty quickly since the Demon can convert a player every night while the Ghost continues to kill players too.
Against the Cult:
  • Be wary of anyone that seems like an Executioner, because they may actually be a Cultist. Similarly, if you think someone may be a Jester, they could be a Cultist as well. If you have any suspicions, it may be best to get a Vigilante to shoot them if you are Town, or kill them yourself if you are evil.
  • When a Cultist dies, suspect everyone who accused them at any point. Even if you think they are confirmed, they may have been converted into a Cultist. If a Cultist is lynched, check the guilty votes because it is extremely likely that the other Cultist voted guilty.
  • Once two Cultists are dead, consider not lynching anyone unless they are proven to be a different evil. Once a Cultist becomes a Demon, there is little hope left for all other players.
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby Brilliand » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:31 pm

I don't see any action cooldown after getting a convert. Without that, it's impossible for Town to beat the Cult with lynches alone. That's not OK, since the Town's primary weapon is the lynch, and the Town shouldn't have to rely on anything else besides accurate lynching to win.

This isn't just a special complaint, though; it appears to be a core theme of this faction that lynching it is a bad idea, while it's simultaneously also a core theme that it's a killing faction that the Town needs to deal with. So the aforementioned problem is probably unfixable.

(Also, if you're going to give the faction a ridiculously overpowered role when the other factions "deserve to lose", have some mercy and just have the game immediately end with the successful faction winning.)
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby OreCreeper » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:55 pm

Some suggestions:
- Lynched cultists may only begin to perform their ability on the following night after they're lynched (doesn't apply to the 4th+ lynched cultists).
- Lynched culitsts should still be able to talk in the factional night chat, and cannot see the dead chat (if this isn't implemented the Seer is very much useless since they have no way of communicating with the living Cultists otherwise).
- Demon should not be able to convert on consecutive nights. In addition if the demon converts on a night where all cultists die, the conversion fails and the Cult loses.
- Seer should be able to see visits as well, since it's not as powerful as neither the Ghost (nightly kill + astral + roleblock) or the Demon.
- Ghost should not cause BGs to die or trigger traps, but they should be unable to attack people protected by BG or a trap.
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby SomeCatchyName9 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:01 pm

Brilliand wrote:I don't see any action cooldown after getting a convert. Without that, it's impossible for Town to beat the Cult with lynches alone. That's not OK, since the Town's primary weapon is the lynch, and the Town shouldn't have to rely on anything else besides accurate lynching to win.

This isn't just a special complaint, though; it appears to be a core theme of this faction that lynching it is a bad idea, while it's simultaneously also a core theme that it's a killing faction that the Town needs to deal with. So the aforementioned problem is probably unfixable.

(Also, if you're going to give the faction a ridiculously overpowered role when the other factions "deserve to lose", have some mercy and just have the game immediately end with the successful faction winning.)

Now that you mention it, I do realise that it could be a problem since even if the Town lynches/kills one Cultist a day, they wouldn't be able to finish off the Cultists. Do you think I should have a similar thing to Vampires where they have a wait a day after converting? Most of the time it shouldn't affect them anyway since they can't convert if there are 2 or more.

Yeah your second point is also right because lynching a Cultist currently doesn't do anything as they can just convert the same night and get back to 2 members. If I add the one night cooldown mentioned above, I think I should fix this issue because then Town could try to lynch two Cultists in a row which may take them out completely. Of course, having a Vigilante or Jailor kill them is easier and should be the top priority. Escorts should probably also be on suspected Cultists.

About your last point, I don't think the Demon is much more overpowered than Pestilence. The Cultist has no defence so while the Demon is a hugely powerful offensive role, the Cult has nothing to protect themselves from being killed (apart from the Ghost's roleblock, which only protects against one killer). By the time the Cultists get to the Demon, they would probably have run out of town roles to convert, so at that point they might even get lynched because they likely won't have majority.

Thanks for the feedback! Do check out the Dictator if possible, it could use some of your good feedback too :D
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby SomeCatchyName9 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:12 pm

OreCreeper wrote:Some suggestions:
- Lynched cultists may only begin to perform their ability on the following night after they're lynched (doesn't apply to the 4th+ lynched cultists).
This is an interesting idea, may I ask why you think this is needed? I felt like the Town should immediately be punished for lynching a Cultist, especially because the Cult takes a day or two before they can start killing. I'm thinking of nerfing the Cult by adding a one night cooldown after a successful conversion (like Vampires). Would this have a similar effect to the nerf you are suggesting!
- Lynched culitsts should still be able to talk in the factional night chat, and cannot see the dead chat (if this isn't implemented the Seer is very much useless since they have no way of communicating with the living Cultists otherwise).
This is completely right and I must have forgotten to mention it in the thread, thanks for pointing it out.
- Demon should not be able to convert on consecutive nights. In addition if the demon converts on a night where all cultists die, the conversion fails and the Cult loses.
yeah I agree with this too, I didn't realise this problem before but I see now that it makes the Cult unkillabke if I don't nerf it. Perhaps I'll only add the first nerf though, since if a Vampire converts and dies the same night, the conversion still goes through. By adding the conversion cooldown, I think the Demon should be nerfed enough. Please let me know if you disagree.
- Seer should be able to see visits as well, since it's not as powerful as neither the Ghost (nightly kill + astral + roleblock) or the Demon.
Yeah the Seer is very underpowered compared to the other roles and I would not be opposed to adding this. I was wondering whether there's something more unique I can do with the Seer rather than just combine a bunch of roles, but for now this works as well. Another option was to move the roleblock from the Ghost to the Seer - how would that be? The issue with that was that the Ghost wouldn't be very interesting or unique.
- Ghost should not cause BGs to die or trigger traps, but they should be unable to attack people protected by BG or a trap.
Currently, Ghosts cannot kill targets protected by the BG, but I felt that since they are seen by Lookouts, they should also affect Bodyguards? But maybe the better way to go is not have them be seen by Lookouts at all - they are Ghosts after all. I suppose I should make their visits fully Astral. But they will still be stopped by Town Protectives.

Responses in red, thanks for the suggestions! :D

What did you think of the overall concept of getting lynched to become a different role that helps your faction while dead?

Also, if you have some time, it'd be great if you could check out the Dictator too, it could use some good suggestions like the ones you gave here :)
Last edited by SomeCatchyName9 on Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby cob709 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:25 pm

isnt this like- a factional jester?
wtf lmao
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby SomeCatchyName9 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:55 am

cob709 wrote:isnt this like- a factional jester?
wtf lmao

Sort of, except instead of the jester haunt it stays in the game with a night action. What do you think of the concept?

Also, I've replied to your feedback on the Dictator if you want to have a look :D
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby TrollXDee » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:28 pm

SomeCatchyName9 wrote:
cob709 wrote:isnt this like- a factional jester?
wtf lmao

Sort of, except instead of the jester haunt it stays in the game with a night action. What do you think of the concept?

Also, I've replied to your feedback on the Dictator if you want to have a look :D


I mean they did add a factional witch (Coven). So what's next? Executioner faction?
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby SomeCatchyName9 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:14 am

TrollXDee wrote:
SomeCatchyName9 wrote:
cob709 wrote:isnt this like- a factional jester?
wtf lmao

Sort of, except instead of the jester haunt it stays in the game with a night action. What do you think of the concept?

Also, I've replied to your feedback on the Dictator if you want to have a look :D


I mean they did add a factional witch (Coven). So what's next? Executioner faction?

Sorry but this is really not helpful. Did you read my post? Can you comment on what you think of the main concept?

The only similarity to the Jester is that they want to be lynched. Apart from that it's a completely different role that can convert and has regular night actions while dead.

Please at least read the Summary section.
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby Helicooler » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 am

i thought joke roles werent allowed
/ -
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or change your mind
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:56 am

Helicooler wrote:i thought joke roles werent allowed

Shh you’re gonna hurt their feelings
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Re: The Cult - A unique faction that sacrifices its own memb

Postby SomeCatchyName9 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:32 am

Helicooler wrote:i thought joke roles werent allowed


It's not a joke lmao
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