Detective (Town Investigative)

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Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Ezradekezra » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:45 pm

Role Name: Detective

Role Alignment: Town (Investigative)

Abilities:
- Check a person's house each night

Attributes:
- You will learn your target's alignment the next night
- Your target will be notified that a Detective visited them
- Your target will have the chance to stay home and fabricate results (Your target can RB themselves to choose what alignment they will appear as)

Notifications:
- You have decided to check [Player]'s alignment tonight. (When choosing who to check)
- You have instead decided to check [Player]'s alignment tonight. (When choosing to check someone else)
- A Detective visited you last night! (When being checked)
- You have decided to stay home and fabricate results. (When fabricating results)
- Your target's alignment is [Alignment]! (When receiving results the next night)

Goal:
Same as other Town roles.

Win Conditions:
Same as other Town roles.

Special Attributes:
None, I think.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - NS/GF
Investigator - LO/Forger/Witch/Det or LO/Forger/Jugg/CL/Det
Consigliere - Your target knows a lot about their suspects. They must be a Detective!

Achievements:
New Recruit - 1 Detective win
Gumshoe - 5 Detective wins
Top Detective - 10 Detective wins
Interpol Agent - 25 Detective wins
Forged Evidence - Receive faked results from a target
Ruh Roh, Raggy - Find a person to be either a Neutral (Killing) role or a Neutral (Chaos) role
Arrest Him, ASAP! - Find a person to be a Mafia (Killing) role
Reevaluating my Priorities - Check your own alignment

Additional Information:
- Framed people appear to be Mafia (Deception)
- Hexed people appear to be Coven (Evil)
- Doused people appear to be Neutral (Killing)
- The check for whether a target is Framed, Hexed, or Doused is performed the night that the Detective receives their results, not the night that the Detective visits the target.
- Framed, Hexed, and Doused targets that fabricate their results will show the fabricated results.

I'm not sure if this role would be balanced, super OP, or really bad. Let me know.
Last edited by Ezradekezra on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby ABadWord » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:53 pm

In practice this role is more of a delayed Escort that doesn't die to SK.
Evils being able to change their results if they do nothing is lame for a TI.
If this role had to investigate someone two nights in a row without interruption, while keeping the alerting target feature, that might be good.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby cob709 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:02 pm

This is too easily confirmable.
Also, it's a delayed sheriff.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:12 pm

cob709 wrote:This is too easily confirmable.


Easily fixed by not giving Town any notification, since they're already using the ideal alignment by default.

cob709 wrote:Also, it's a delayed sheriff.


I think ABadWord's interpretation of "delayed evil-only escort" [that can roleblock Witch] is more accurate. It would be surprising if this role ever got a result other than "Town".

Actually...

Ezradekezra wrote:(Your target can RB themselves to choose what alignment they will appear as)


If a roleblock-immune role such as Witch roleblocks herself, is she actually unable to act or does she get to simultaneously control someone and roleblock herself?
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby yuri3296 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:16 am

The achievement for faking an allignment would reveal that someone is lying in mid-game. Consider changing that
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Ezradekezra » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:43 am

yuri3296 wrote:The achievement for faking an allignment would reveal that someone is lying in mid-game. Consider changing that

I'm pretty sure that type of stuff is awarded after the game, though.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:14 am

So a Jani without cleans is always seen as Town?
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:04 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:So a Jani without cleans is always seen as Town?


Everything is (except Jester possibly). This role functions as an evil-only roleblocker in practice.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:47 pm

I would rework this to show alignments without factions. For example:

  • Your target is an Investigative or Deception role.
  • Your target is a Protective or Killing role.
  • Your target is a Support role.
  • Your target is an Evil or Chaos role.
  • Your target is a Benign role.

Framed targets will appear to be Evil or Chaos.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:36 pm

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:I would rework this to show alignments without factions. For example:

  • Your target is an Investigative or Deception role.
  • Your target is a Protective or Killing role.
  • Your target is a Support role.
  • Your target is an Evil or Chaos role.
  • Your target is a Benign role.

Framed targets will appear to be Evil or Chaos.


...why? That seems so different from the idea in the OP that I'd rather treat it as a separate proposal (with a separate thread for it).

And your idea is too weak to justify the "targets can roleblock themselves to falsify their results" weakness.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby OreCreeper » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:10 pm

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:I would rework this to show alignments without factions. For example:

  • Your target is an Investigative or Deception role.
  • Your target is a Protective or Killing role.
  • Your target is a Support role.
  • Your target is an Evil or Chaos role.
  • Your target is a Benign role.

Framed targets will appear to be Evil or Chaos.

Framed targets should appear as Investigative or Deception since Framer is Deception.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Harryyoshi » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:19 pm

This role is good, although I don't see real application here. It's a bit underwhelming in practice. A Investigator and Sheriff combo already confirm evils, and this role just adds another "Investigator" to the batch of TIs. Compared to the Investigator, this is actually worse, since they get more than 3 roles per investigation. We already have an Investigator, and just making this role exist will give a harder time for evils. Generally, most Investigator-like TI role ideas are good and definitely applicable, it's just that making them exist creates makes the game way harder for evils. Overall, remove the whole wait-one-night shenanigan and this role could, in theory, replace Investigator or Sheriff. Adding it to the game however, will make it harder for the evils, not because this role is OP, it's actually worse than Investigator, it's because evils will need to plan ahead of time in case there is this role.
Although the idea is good, the gameplay doesn't really need another Investigator.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:34 pm

Harryyoshi wrote:Compared to the Investigator, this is actually worse, since they get more than 3 roles per investigation.


You're clearly not talking about the OP. Are you talking about TheFluffyWaffleV2's suggestion?
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Harryyoshi » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:29 am

Brilliand wrote:
Harryyoshi wrote:Compared to the Investigator, this is actually worse, since they get more than 3 roles per investigation.


You're clearly not talking about the OP. Are you talking about TheFluffyWaffleV2's suggestion?

Yes, I was. I was also assuming that it would be more balanced to have townies and evils in one investigative result, such as TP with NE, not just Neutral Evil and Chaos.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Mystoc » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:14 pm

its never worth staying home losing a night to a kill is huge and doesnt even save you

also if you do stay home the fact no deaths happen is just has much a death sentence then detective getting your alignment
the detective can just say he checked the night before when no deaths happen

this is a sherrif who cant be fooled by necro or GF or asro but the fact they can just stay home and to fake the result means he cant really trust what he sees if no death happens

its acc very OP role cause the evil is screwed if they stay home they get called out when no deaths happen and if they kill the detictive finds out they are evil they cant win if they get checked, their only hope would be killing detective on the night he would of found out the result which is very hard to do if its early game

also the giving notifacation to town so it can confirm itself is a deal breaker, no more confirmable roles
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Mystoc wrote:its never worth staying home losing a night to a kill is huge and doesnt even save you


...if the target is the killer, which basically means Mafioso or Serial Killer. Any other Mafia role can afford to skip a night, Werewolf can afford to skip every alternate night (and staying home under the full moon sometimes works too), and the recently-buffed Arsonist will douse the Detective as compensation for losing his active douse, which means he'll probably be OK.

Mystoc wrote:also the giving notifacation to town so it can confirm itself is a deal breaker, no more confirmable roles


That's a good point.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby cob709 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:26 pm

Brilliand wrote:
cob709 wrote:This is too easily confirmable.


Easily fixed by not giving Town any notification, since they're already using the ideal alignment by default.

If this solution were implemented, then Evils wouldn't know when they should stay at home that night.
Unless... Are you suggesting that Town would not receive the notification, but Evils would? In that case- sure, it might work.
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Re: Detective (Town Investigative)

Postby Mystoc » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:01 pm

...if the target is the killer, which basically means Mafioso or Serial Killer. Any other Mafia role can afford to skip a night, Werewolf can afford to skip every alternate night (and staying home under the full moon sometimes works too), and the recently-buffed Arsonist will douse the Detective as compensation for losing his active douse, which means he'll probably be OK.


but if no deaths happen its just like with escort the detective says hey i checked this guy last night no deaths happened, your screwed either way if u kill you reveal role if u dont ur outed cause no deaths happen

asro is the only NK role who can get away with no killing since douses cant be detected, the rest of evil killing roles are screwed
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