ATTENTION, BMG: This is how you can REALLY stop Jailor Meta
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:12 am
Give Forger a second night ability. Instead of Forging someone, they can watch somebody like a Lookout. Also, undo the recent LO nerf, because having it be an RNG based role is not the way the game should work. Instead, make Lookout (but NOT Forger) unable to identify any visitors if they see more than three. They’ll see the NUMBER of visitors, but won’t be able to tell who they are.
If you do this, you're killing THREE birds with one stone.
1. This will make Lookout MUCH harder to confirm, since now there is an evil role that can easily fake it. This is especially true if a Mafia role visits the Jailor N1, even if they aren't a Forger, because any Spies will see that a Mafia did visit the Jailor, and therefore any Lookout claims aren't confirmed to be Town.
2. This buffs Forger, which is already one of the weakest roles in the game. Now it has a useful ability, and it can use the knowledge of who is visiting who to deduce a target's role in a way that doesn't overlap with the Consigliere (or require having one). While Lookouts won’t be able to identify more than 3 other visitors on anyone, the Forger will be able to identify them all, giving mafia a list of any townies who decide to visit the jailor n1 (IE: town protectives). Also, Forger is no longer screwed if found by an Investigator, since currently, not being able to fake Lookout well is a death sentence.
3. This DRASTICALLY decreases the power of the Jailor meta, since Lookouts and TPs can't just be confirmed right off the bat now that LO claims aren't instantly trustworthy.
Also, while you're at it, make Jailor unable to jail the same person 2 nights in a row so it can't roleblock 1 mafia/coven for as long as necessary when looking for other members of their faction.
Now, I'll address the most common counterarguments to what I've suggested here.
"A Mafia Lookout should be its own role!": See, the problem with that is that if you make a new Mafia role, you leave Forger as useless as it is now. Not only that, but you'd have to incorporate that new role into Investigator results.
"Forger should be buffed in a way that makes its own forging abilities stronger!": In theory, that sounds like a good idea, until you realize that there's virtually no way of doing that except for either making them become a Consigliere clone or allowing them to steal the will of someone at night and change it accordingly. The latter option won't work because the new meta will be for all townies to keep their will in their notes (or just in a separate window) instead of in the in-game will, and only post it into their actual will during the last few seconds of the night so that any Forgers won't see it if they try to steal it. Then they'll remove their will again and the cycle will continue.
"What if, to nerf Lookout, we just didn't let them see ANY visitors if more than 3 showed up?: This on its own wouldn’t be enough, however I now believe that this, along with my forger buff, are the correct way to go about this.
Since you're reading this, BMG, please stop taking suggestions on how to balance the game from people who only play All Any. All Any is MEANT to be chaotic, not to be balanced.
I'll happily refute any counterarguments left in replies here. Until then, this is Queen Sixteen signing off.
If you do this, you're killing THREE birds with one stone.
1. This will make Lookout MUCH harder to confirm, since now there is an evil role that can easily fake it. This is especially true if a Mafia role visits the Jailor N1, even if they aren't a Forger, because any Spies will see that a Mafia did visit the Jailor, and therefore any Lookout claims aren't confirmed to be Town.
2. This buffs Forger, which is already one of the weakest roles in the game. Now it has a useful ability, and it can use the knowledge of who is visiting who to deduce a target's role in a way that doesn't overlap with the Consigliere (or require having one). While Lookouts won’t be able to identify more than 3 other visitors on anyone, the Forger will be able to identify them all, giving mafia a list of any townies who decide to visit the jailor n1 (IE: town protectives). Also, Forger is no longer screwed if found by an Investigator, since currently, not being able to fake Lookout well is a death sentence.
3. This DRASTICALLY decreases the power of the Jailor meta, since Lookouts and TPs can't just be confirmed right off the bat now that LO claims aren't instantly trustworthy.
Also, while you're at it, make Jailor unable to jail the same person 2 nights in a row so it can't roleblock 1 mafia/coven for as long as necessary when looking for other members of their faction.
Now, I'll address the most common counterarguments to what I've suggested here.
"A Mafia Lookout should be its own role!": See, the problem with that is that if you make a new Mafia role, you leave Forger as useless as it is now. Not only that, but you'd have to incorporate that new role into Investigator results.
"Forger should be buffed in a way that makes its own forging abilities stronger!": In theory, that sounds like a good idea, until you realize that there's virtually no way of doing that except for either making them become a Consigliere clone or allowing them to steal the will of someone at night and change it accordingly. The latter option won't work because the new meta will be for all townies to keep their will in their notes (or just in a separate window) instead of in the in-game will, and only post it into their actual will during the last few seconds of the night so that any Forgers won't see it if they try to steal it. Then they'll remove their will again and the cycle will continue.
"What if, to nerf Lookout, we just didn't let them see ANY visitors if more than 3 showed up?: This on its own wouldn’t be enough, however I now believe that this, along with my forger buff, are the correct way to go about this.
Since you're reading this, BMG, please stop taking suggestions on how to balance the game from people who only play All Any. All Any is MEANT to be chaotic, not to be balanced.
I'll happily refute any counterarguments left in replies here. Until then, this is Queen Sixteen signing off.