Witch's mystical barrier should be tweaked

[ScarfVendetta]

Given the new buff to the Arsonist, it is currently difficult for a Witch to side with an Arsonist (finding the Arsonist via control will douse the Witch). A solution to this issue would be to change the mystical barrier so that it protects from the first evil attack rather than the first Basic attack.

The mystical barrier will protect the Witch from a single attack from the following:
Mafia, Serial Killer, Werewolf, Arsonist (removes the douse), Vampire

The mystical barrier will NOT protect the Witch from the following:
Vigilante, Veteran, Jailor


Effects of this change
Witches are able to side with Arsonists far more easily. A Witch doesn't need to be paranoid that they may be doused as long as their mystical barrier remains intact. If a Witch finds an Arsonist via control, their mystical barrier will be broken and the Witch will not be doused.

Werewolves will no longer accidentally kill a Witch when rampaging, provided that the Witch's mystical barrier is intact.

Vigilantes are more capable of killing a Witch before they are found and controlled.

[orangeandblack5]

It was always meant to be like this, so full support.

[Royee]

/support

[cob709]

This means witch can side with evils, while not being too OP against town.
/support

[FrenchyTheSphee]

100% support

[TheFluffyWaffleV2]

Finally some good tarnationed suggestions. Support.

No magic can stop cold hard lead, witch.

[Brilliand]

I'm generally in favor of this, but I think it would be better if the witch's scumvest saved her the night of the ignite, not the night of the douse. This has a few benefits:

• It allows the witch to survive if the Mafia attacks her after she finds the Arsonist (albeit unlikely to support the Arsonist)
• It allows the Arsonist to tell who the Witch is by who got doused when he got controlled
• It's more consistent, since it saves the witch from the actual attack, not from the arsonist's other (non-attacking) ability

To be clear, this version of the scumvest would clean the gasoline from the witch the night the ignite happens, in addition to ensuring the witch doesn't get killed by any other scum that night.

[orangeandblack5]

^that

[Mystoc]

I'm generally in favor of this, but I think it would be better if the witch's scumvest saved her the night of the ignite, not the night of the douse. This has a few benefits:

• It allows the witch to survive if the Mafia attacks her after she finds the Arsonist (albeit unlikely to support the Arsonist)
• It allows the Arsonist to tell who the Witch is by who got doused when he got controlled
• It's more consistent, since it saves the witch from the actual attack, not from the arsonist's other (non-attacking) ability

To be clear, this version of the scumvest would clean the gasoline from the witch the night the ignite happens, in addition to ensuring the witch doesn't get killed by any other scum that night.

this is worse because in between the time witch is doused if they get attacked they are forced to side against asro since they lost the scumvest and the ignite will now kill them, any good mafia would attack witch once to force their hand so they cant side with asro

i meant that this is bad for asro either way works fine for witch i thought this change was ment to be a buff for asro since they are solo and not meant to help mafia even more, i dont see the difference if witch uses a scumvest on douse vrs getting attacked by mafia each is an attack that results in death

much better to stop it the night it happens so the witch can let asro know they have an ally and not to visit them again and vise versa
if witch gets doused and attacked one same night the same logic applies to why its a good change the scumvest would stop all the attacks

witch shouldn't really fear mafia most times anyway if they lose scumvest from douse witch usually finds one mafia by n3 since their is 4 mafia plenty of chances to control one and let them know they are an ally, it much harder for witch to find NK since they are only 1 person

[orangeandblack5]

They having to turn on the Arso is better than them being dead to the Mafia, no?

[Brilliand]

I'm generally in favor of this, but I think it would be better if the witch's scumvest saved her the night of the ignite, not the night of the douse. This has a few benefits:

• It allows the witch to survive if the Mafia attacks her after she finds the Arsonist (albeit unlikely to support the Arsonist)
• It allows the Arsonist to tell who the Witch is by who got doused when he got controlled
• It's more consistent, since it saves the witch from the actual attack, not from the arsonist's other (non-attacking) ability

To be clear, this version of the scumvest would clean the gasoline from the witch the night the ignite happens, in addition to ensuring the witch doesn't get killed by any other scum that night.

As good an idea as this is, I can't support it.

Is this a disability, or do you have a reason that can be explained?

[ScarfVendetta]

I wouldn't object to having the mystical barrier protect against the ignition instead of the initial douse. Either proposal would solve the main issues with Witch.

At the time, my reasoning was that the Witch would benefit from knowing that they are not already doused until after their mystical barrier is broken. If their mystical barrier would not prevent the initial douse, then losing the mystical barrier would force them to side against the Arsonist. After further consideration, that isn't necessarily a bad thing (it seems fitting that the Mafia might try to force the Witch to side with them by breaking their mystical barrier).

[Mystoc]

They having to turn on the Arso is better than them being dead to the Mafia, no?

I thought the whole point of the change was to make it so witch can team with arso the underdog easier not make it harder, this seems more a buff for mafia waiting means that if witch gets attacked she cant side with asro ever using the sheild right away means is worse for witch but better then it was before its better for asro for sure but i thought that was the point of thread make it so she can team with arso over mafia

mafia would never waste a kill on witch even if they sided against them they cant waste a night killing a target that doesnt matter for their goal it would be better to go after asro and ignore witch

so as long as mafia knows who witch is they are fine, witch can control the 1 of 4 mafia and just let them know who they you act like its more an issue mafia can now kill witch well in most games mafia knows who witch is very fast, finding and siding with NK is much harder so its much more likely NK accidentally attacks witch not knowing they were NE

lets be real witch sides with mafia amolst always they are 4 people asro is just 1 person a team of 5 is much better then team of 2
you only side with asro for the memes and rooting for underdog its not the best play if your just trying to win,

if you make it the other way mafia can attack witch to force her to side with them since the arso ignite can now kill them which is now worth it since they gain a vote vrs just killing her

yes the other way around is better for witch, but not by much witch dying to mafia almost never happens they are easy to find, is this idea meant to be a buff to asro or just make witch even stronger its the strongest NE in game, i thought the idea of this thread was give witch the option to side with underdog side more

[orangeandblack5]

You do realize that having it proc on the attack not the douse means it works the exact same for Arso as any other NK with respect to Witch's relative willingness to side with them, right?

Ultimately dying to Mafia after being doused is going to be worse for the Witch and for game consistency than a scum autovest, and I don't think "but Arso is the underdog" (which is no longer necessarily true) is good enough reasoning to take a hit on both of those

[Mystoc]

You do realize that having it proc on the attack not the douse means it works the exact same for Arso as any other NK with respect to Witch's relative willingness to side with them, right?

Are saying if they get attacked the douse is also gotten rid off? That’s never been done before there is not supposed to be counters to getting rid of a douse but since it’s potential ally that can do it it could work

Ultimately dying to Mafia after being doused is going to be worse for the Witch and for game consistency than a scum autovest, and I don't think "but Arso is the underdog" (which is no longer necessarily true) is good enough reasoning to take a hit on both of those

That’s true nk wins the least by far it’s still true after the new changes as long as Astro can be an ally equally to mafia I don’t care how it works

[Vaktus]

/support

[orangeandblack5]

I would appreciate if you did tho

[TheFluffyWaffleV2]

I'm generally in favor of this, but I think it would be better if the witch's scumvest saved her the night of the ignite, not the night of the douse. This has a few benefits:

• It allows the witch to survive if the Mafia attacks her after she finds the Arsonist (albeit unlikely to support the Arsonist)
• It allows the Arsonist to tell who the Witch is by who got doused when he got controlled
• It's more consistent, since it saves the witch from the actual attack, not from the arsonist's other (non-attacking) ability

To be clear, this version of the scumvest would clean the gasoline from the witch the night the ignite happens, in addition to ensuring the witch doesn't get killed by any other scum that night.

As good an idea as this is, I can't support it.

Is this a disability, or do you have a reason that can be explained?

But I don't need to explain myself.

Then why reply at all

[orangeandblack5]

They don't save an ignite because it's an astral attack

Ask yourself this

What would a Doctor save

That's the attack

Bodyguard isn't very relevant here and especially so now that it doesn't interact with Arso at all.

[ScarfVendetta]

They don't save an ignite because it's an astral attack

Ask yourself this

What would a Doctor save

That's the attack

Bodyguard isn't very relevant here and especially so now that it doesn't interact with Arso at all.

Doctor doesn't save from an Arsonist because it's an Unstoppable attack, whereas the Doctor only provides Powerful defense. A Doctor could be at the scene, see their target is on fire, but it's beyond their healing capabilities.

Doctors can save against astral attacks. In Coven, the astral Basic attack of a Hex Master (with necronomicon) can be healed.

[orangeandblack5]

What would a Doctor save

Key word highlighted

Similarly

Bodyguard does not save the night of an ignite, they (used to) save the night of a douse. It's about consistency.

They don't save an ignite because it's an astral attack