Forger [Overhaul]

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

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It needs changes
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Total votes : 12

Forger [Overhaul]

Postby Ezradekezra » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm

As it is, the Forger is essentially a weaker version of the Janitor, so I'd like to propose the following overhaul of the role.

Role Name:
Forger

Role Alignment:
Mafia (Deception)

Abilities:
- Choose a person at night and forge their results.

Attributes:
- You cannot forge the same person more than once.
- Different roles will have different results when forged.
- You will not be told exactly what you write, as that will give away the role of the forged person.

Goal:
- Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Win Conditions:
- You must kill the Town.
- You win with the Mafia.
- You win with the Survivors.
- You win with the Witches.
- You must kill the Vampires.
- You must kill the Coven.
- You must kill the Plaguebearer.
- You must kill Pestilence.
- You must kill the Arsonists.
- You must kill the Serial Killers.
- You must kill the Werewolf.
- You must kill the Juggernaut.

Additional Information:
- Investigators will see a random set of results when forged.
- Sheriffs will have their results flip-flopped.
- Spies will either see a random set of visits or have a random bug result.
- Lookouts will see a random visitor.
- Trackers will see their target visit a random person.
- Psychics will have the people in their vision chosen completely at random.
- Doctors and Potion Masters that use their healing potions will be told that their target was attacked.
- Bodyguards will be told that their target was attacked, and that they were healed.
- Crusaders and Ambushers will be told that they attacked someone.
- Trappers will be told that a random role triggered their trap.
- Vigilantes, Mafiosos, Godfathers, Serial Killers, Poisoners, Potion Masters using their attack potions, Hex Masters with the Necronomicon, Necromancers raising a ghoul, and Vampires will be told that their target had defense.
- Veterans, Medusas, and people with rampage attacks will be told that they attacked one additional person.
- Vampire Hunters will be told that they staked an additional Vampire.
- Consiglieres, Witches, Coven Leaders, and Potion Masters using their reveal potions will be told that their target is a random role.
- All other roles are immune to being forged.

Let me know what you think!
(I tried leaving the long blocks of text in spoilers but for some reason they kept getting deleted.)
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Re: Forger [Overhaul]

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:08 pm

Ezradekezra wrote:As it is, the Forger is essentially a weaker version of the Janitor, so I'd like to propose the following overhaul of the role. Yes.

Role Name:
Forger

Role Alignment:
Mafia (Deception)

Abilities:
- Choose a person at night and forge their results. okey

Attributes:
- You cannot forge the same person more than once. Don't agree with this. Maybe there is a large cooldown on the forging (eg. 2 nights) or having a limited amount of forges is better imo.
- Different roles will have different results when forged. Makes sense.
- You will not be told exactly what you write, as that will give away the role of the forged person. Makes sense again.

Goal:
- Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Win Conditions:
- You must kill the Town.
- You win with the Mafia.
- You win with the Survivors.
- You win with the Witches.
- You must kill the Vampires.
- You must kill the Coven.
- You must kill the Plaguebearer.
- You must kill Pestilence.
- You must kill the Arsonists.
- You must kill the Serial Killers.
- You must kill the Werewolf.
- You must kill the Juggernaut.

Additional Information:
- Investigators will see a random set of results when forged.
- Sheriffs will have their results flip-flopped. So just Framer but better? I see.
- Spies will either see a random set of visits or have a random bug result. How about see random visit except for who is visited by the Mafioso or Godfather.
- Lookouts will see a random visitor. Perhaps for everyone they see, they see someone random instead? So if they see 2 people, (a Doctor and other Lookout), they will instead see 2 random people.
- Trackers will see their target visit a random person.
- Psychics will have the people in their vision chosen completely at random. Oh Lord. How about a member of the Mafia can't appear to be the evil in the vision, because otherwise this is broken.
- Doctors and Potion Masters that use their healing potions will be told that their target was attacked. Giving me Hypnotist vibes.
- Bodyguards will be told that their target was attacked, and that they were healed. Remove this imo. Useless, as there will be no dead attacker, and will just cause confusion, but in a bad way.
- Crusaders and Ambushers will be told that they attacked someone. How tf does a Forger convince someone they attacked someone?
- Trappers will be told that a random role triggered their trap. This obviously doesn't destroy the trap, correct?
- Vigilantes, Mafiosos, Godfathers, Serial Killers, Poisoners, Potion Masters using their attack potions, Hex Masters with the Necronomicon, Necromancers raising a ghoul, and Vampires will be told that their target had defense. Remove this as well. Does literally nothing. as the target will be dead. If they aren't dead, they will receive the defense message twice.
- Veterans, Medusas, and people with rampage attacks will be told that they attacked one additional person. And the Forger.
- Vampire Hunters will be told that they staked an additional Vampire. Remove this, also useless. There would be no dead Vampire, and they know the Vampire would not be healed as they would not receive the defense to high message.
- Consiglieres, Witches, Coven Leaders, and Potion Masters using their reveal potions will be told that their target is a random role.
- All other roles are immune to being forged.

Let me know what you think!
(I tried leaving the long blocks of text in spoilers but for some reason they kept getting deleted.)


Overall pretty good idea. It's a Hypnotist that counters Town Investigative, with a few other roles that actually do things. Better than the current Forger just because it's not the current Forger obviously.
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Re: Forger [Overhaul]

Postby Mystoc » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:17 pm

- Psychics will have the people in their vision chosen completely at random.

Oh Lord. How about a member of the Mafia can't appear to be the evil in the vision, because otherwise this is broken.
thats even worse because it conforms 3 people who arent mafia man, if its found that they were forged its 3 confirmed roles

============================================================================================================

this is just a reverse framer Dragonclaw reworked framer to be something like this as well

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=75850&hilit

you like making all the results random but thats bad cause it can still give back evil ones it should be established what it is

unlimited charges is fair since almost always this a worse consort and that as unlimited charges

honestly forger should just be deleted from the game too similar to janitor it adds nothing
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Re: Forger [Overhaul]

Postby Ezradekezra » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:45 pm

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:You cannot forge the same person more than once.

Don't agree with this. Maybe there is a large cooldown on the forging (eg. 2 nights) or having a limited amount of forges is better imo.

Yeah, I'm unsure how to keep the Forger from just forging the same person over and over again, so your suggestions may work better.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Sheriffs will have their results flip-flopped.

So just Framer but better? I see.

Essentially, but it has the added drawback of allowing Coven members, Serial Killers, and rampaging Werewolves to get away for longer.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Spies will either see a random set of visits or have a random bug result.

How about see random visit except for who is visited by the Mafioso or Godfather.

I guess it makes sense that only RM and Coven visits would be affected. Having the Mafioso's or Godfather's visit randomized would make the forgery obvious unless the Mafia hit someone with defense.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Lookouts will see a random visitor.

Perhaps for everyone they see, they see someone random instead?

That would make more sense.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Psychics will have the people in their vision chosen completely at random.

Oh Lord. How about a member of the Mafia can't appear to be the evil in the vision, because otherwise this is broken.

I feel like it would be too powerful if the Mafia couldn't appear in the evil visions at all, but I'm not sure. I should try this out in the Testing Grounds forum when I get a chance.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Bodyguards will be told that their target was attacked, and that they were healed.

Remove this imo. Useless, as there will be no dead attacker, and will just cause confusion, but in a bad way.

Yeah, I guess Bodyguard should be added to the list of immune roles.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Trappers will be told that that a random role triggered their trap.

This obviously doesn't destroy the trap, correct?

The icon indicating the status of the trap will change, but the forgery will become obvious when the Trapper does not start building another trap the next night. Additionally, if other people trigger the trap on the night of the forgery, the Trapper will see that those roles triggered the trap as well as the forged one. This means that forging the Trapper is far more effective on a night that someone else triggers the trap.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Veterans, Medusas, and people with rampage attacks will be told that they attacked one additional person.

And the Forger.

Yeah, this one is pretty useless against Veterans and Medusas unless the Forger is healed, but it should work against people with rampage attacks unless they stay home.

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Vampire Hunters will be told that they staked an additional Vampire.

Remove this, also useless. There would be no dead Vampire, and they know the Vampire would not be healed as they would not receive the defense to high message.

I didn't realize that Vampire Hunters could receive this message, even after the Town Protective rework that was a part of the last update. I guess this (as well as maybe the other defense message forgery) should be removed.
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