Rework to Escort/Consort and Buff to Consort

[shadowball31]

So, I'll preface this by saying it's my first time posting here, and that I admittedly haven't looked to see if this same change (or a similar one) has been suggested before. With that out of the way, here's my suggestion.

I play this with a few friends every now and again, and play solo quite often. Now, I don't play ranked, as I find the pool of people I encounter on an average basis aren't really good at communicating or have their own playstyles that don't work with other players. For those reasons, the most "serious" mode I go into is Ranked Practice in Classic. I'll play Town Traitor every now and again, since I think that was a great addition to the game, and when I'm with friends we'll play the rotating mode in Coven or some All Any in Coven or Classic, depending on how we're feeling. The one thing that almost always stands out when I play Classic, however, is that too many of the mafia roles feel either:

A) Too weak to be worthy of being their own role
or
B) Too similar to a role that already exists, making them have no identity as their own role.

As the title of this topic implies, the main one that comes to mind for me is the Consort and Escort. (Framer could use some help too, but I'm sure there are countless suggestions for that).

Taking a look at the two roles shows that they're virtually identical. The only difference really is the win condition, with one being Town, and the other being Mafia. They both visit their targets that they pick at night, they both roleblock the people that can be roleblocked, etc.

My suggestion is as follows:

1 - Make the Consort and Escort choose their targets during the day, rather than at night. The UI for such a thing is already in the game for the Jailor and Pirate, but no other roles that I can think of take advantage of this.

a - Choosing the target during the day is really just a QOL change. Doing this is the only way to make the next change make sense

2 - Make the roleblocked target aware that they've been roleblocked at the start of the night, rather than at the end. This allows the target to work on their will and organize their thoughts/information, rather than wasting some of the night picking a target for their own role and noting down whatever they would regarding that decision.

a - In this way, we find the first buff. Roleblocking a Jailor, for instance, would prevent them from interrogating or executing their target, while still causing the target to be jailed and unable to perform their role.

3 - The Consort specifically would need a way to be different (and stronger) than the Escort, given that the Mafia roles that are similar to Town roles are generally more powerful than their Town counterpart to account for the limit to the number of Mafia members.

a - In this regard, I would suggest a rephrasing on what the Consort does. While the Escort visits their target at night and roleblocks them, the Consort should send a courtier or courtesan, etc (akin to the Necromancer's ghoul) to their target, rather than visit the target themself. This gives them protection against visiting an SK, and protection against being spotted by a lookout.

i - Choosing the target to send courtiers to during the day could allow them to roleblock someone even if they're jailed at night. Personally, I think this aspect may be too strong (granted, quite a few of these changes may be too strong, but that's why it's an idea, right?).

Change 3a is specifically what I'd like to see, I think. The consort not personally visiting their targets would be a great buff to them (in my eyes) that would make them clearly stronger than the Escort, but only in specific cases.

I'm sure there are other recommended reworks/buffs/nerfs for Escort and Consort out there, and these have possibly been suggested already too, but let me know what you all think. Again, I don't play ranked, so I'll completely understand if these changes are way too strong for ranked. If that's the case overall, then feel free to let me know.

TL;DR: Consort is the exact same as Escort. It should stand out a little like Consig to Invest, Necro to the new Ret, etc. The Mafia/Coven roles that are just evil versions of the Town roles are usually more powerful, and Consort isn't. Specific buff idea is to make Consort send courtiers/courtesans (akin to the Necro's ghoul) to roleblock, rather than visiting their target themselves. This gives them a decent amount of power above the Escort in the form of keeping them safe from Lookouts and Serial Killers.

Edit: Changed title of the topic to better reflect the overall purpose of the post.

[Mystoc]

this can be very helpful to vet or medusa since they are RB immune do they get the notifaction if they do it would let them alert and kill since they know they have a visitor, for medusa theres no risk of killing an ally

its called astral visit and this can be used against consort since escort has too visit

LO can say visit x person and i will watch if the person says rb and they dont see you visit your outed as consort

maybe make it a sub ability so theres a choice if you want an astral visit

these are good changes otherwise besides that

[cob709]

Most roles should have night abilities, only extremely special roles should have day abilities(mayor, pirate, jailor, etc).
The Escort/Consort having a night ability isn't really a problem. I would argue that changing it to a day ability would make them worse.
Also, forcing their action at the start of the night instead of the end will hurt Mafia more because they won't be able to adjust their choices and coordinate with their team.
If you try to make Consort and Escort different, then town will obviously be able to tell the difference between the two, which causes the Consort to be incapable of claiming Escort.

Consigliere and Investigator are both Investigative roles, meaning the feedback would only be given to them. The Consigliere can claim Investigator.
Necromancer and Retributionist are both support roles, feedback is forwarded to them. The Necromancer has the option to specifically control only town roles so that they can claim retributionist.
Escort and Consort are both support roles, they foward information to OTHER PEOPLE. If you change the message between the two, then the Consort can't claim Escort.

Consort is very powerful, it doesn't need to be buff'd.
Escort is slightly less powerful, but it doesn't need to be changed.

[shadowball31]

Escort and Consort are both support roles, they foward information to OTHER PEOPLE. If you change the message between the two, then the Consort can't claim Escort.

The message wouldn't be changed here, as far as my idea went. They'd still have the same message sent to people and would functionally be the same roles that they are now. The only difference between the two (with the third suggestion) would be that Consort doesn't die to SKs and isn't visible to LOs.

The "rework" ideas of 1 and 2 are really just that. Ideas. They definitely have their downsides (for instance, the lack of coordinating that you mentioned was one I hadn't thought of) but it was just a neat idea I felt like throwing out there with the buff idea.

Consort is very powerful, it doesn't need to be buff'd.
Escort is slightly less powerful, but it doesn't need to be changed.

I can't really agree with these statements, as they are functionally identical roles. Consort is, in every sense, an Escort but on the Mafia's team. They only thing that really is any different is that they can communicate with the mafia at night. However, in that same vein, a confirmed (or even claimed, really) escort can communicate with everyone during the day, which would essentially make Escort the more powerful role.

What you said about Necro to Ret and Consig to Invest is true, but that doesn't change the fact that these roles can claim to be each other and are effectively the same role but for the evil teams. Consort to Escort is the same, in that regard. Necro is definitively more powerful than Ret, given that they can kill with dead evils, and can kill outright once they get the necronomicon. Consig is clearly a more powerful Invest, as they receive exact roles, as opposed to possible roles.

The main suggestion of the post (which admittedly should have been ordered differently, in hindsight) was a buff to Consort that makes them different enough from Escort that they're clearly the stronger of the two, but only in specific cases. The main reason to have them not visit would be to defend against LOs. SKs would just be an added bonus to this effect. It's also a counter to a Jailor given the TPLO on Jailor meta. Roleblock the jailor and the LO can't tell who it is, while the Consort plays it risky and fakes a claim as another role.

[cob709]

Escort and Consort are both support roles, they foward information to OTHER PEOPLE. If you change the message between the two, then the Consort can't claim Escort.

The message wouldn't be changed here, as far as my idea went. They'd still have the same message sent to people and would functionally be the same roles that they are now. The only difference between the two (with the third suggestion) would be that Consort doesn't die to SKs and isn't visible to LOs.

The "rework" ideas of 1 and 2 are really just that. Ideas. They definitely have their downsides (for instance, the lack of coordinating that you mentioned was one I hadn't thought of) but it was just a neat idea I felt like throwing out there with the buff idea.

Consort is very powerful, it doesn't need to be buff'd.
Escort is slightly less powerful, but it doesn't need to be changed.

I can't really agree with these statements, as they are functionally identical roles. Consort is, in every sense, an Escort but on the Mafia's team. They only thing that really is any different is that they can communicate with the mafia at night. However, in that same vein, a confirmed (or even claimed, really) escort can communicate with everyone during the day, which would essentially make Escort the more powerful role.

What you said about Necro to Ret and Consig to Invest is true, but that doesn't change the fact that these roles can claim to be each other and are effectively the same role but for the evil teams. Consort to Escort is the same, in that regard. Necro is definitively more powerful than Ret, given that they can kill with dead evils, and can kill outright once they get the necronomicon. Consig is clearly a more powerful Invest, as they receive exact roles, as opposed to possible roles.

The main suggestion of the post (which admittedly should have been ordered differently, in hindsight) was a buff to Consort that makes them different enough from Escort that they're clearly the stronger of the two, but only in specific cases. The main reason to have them not visit would be to defend against LOs. SKs would just be an added bonus to this effect. It's also a counter to a Jailor given the TPLO on Jailor meta. Roleblock the jailor and the LO can't tell who it is, while the Consort plays it risky and fakes a claim as another role.

understandable have a nice day

[OreCreeper]

Escort and Consort are both support roles, they foward information to OTHER PEOPLE. If you change the message between the two, then the Consort can't claim Escort.

The message wouldn't be changed here, as far as my idea went. They'd still have the same message sent to people and would functionally be the same roles that they are now. The only difference between the two (with the third suggestion) would be that Consort doesn't die to SKs and isn't visible to LOs.

The "rework" ideas of 1 and 2 are really just that. Ideas. They definitely have their downsides (for instance, the lack of coordinating that you mentioned was one I hadn't thought of) but it was just a neat idea I felt like throwing out there with the buff idea.

Consort is very powerful, it doesn't need to be buff'd.
Escort is slightly less powerful, but it doesn't need to be changed.

I can't really agree with these statements, as they are functionally identical roles. Consort is, in every sense, an Escort but on the Mafia's team. They only thing that really is any different is that they can communicate with the mafia at night. However, in that same vein, a confirmed (or even claimed, really) escort can communicate with everyone during the day, which would essentially make Escort the more powerful role.

I disagree. Escorts are hardly useful for anything but RB'ing a potential killer and occasionally confirming Janitors, but Consort can make better use of the Roleblocking ability. Consorts can RB town killing, including Jailor, from doing their job, can force TIs to waste a night, and can prevent TPs from doing their job and allowing the mafia a free kill on important roles, and overall allowing for more plays like the new mafia claiming Jailor play that has been done by many notable youtubers.

[TheFluffyWaffleV2]

3 - The Consort specifically would need a way to be different (and stronger) than the Escort, given that the Mafia roles that are similar to Town roles are generally more powerful than their Town counterpart to account for the limit to the number of Mafia members.

a - In this regard, I would suggest a rephrasing on what the Consort does. While the Escort visits their target at night and roleblocks them, the Consort should send a courtier or courtesan, etc (akin to the Necromancer's ghoul) to their target, rather than visit the target themself. This gives them protection against visiting an SK, and protection against being spotted by a lookout.

i - Choosing the target to send courtiers to during the day could allow them to roleblock someone even if they're jailed at night. Personally, I think this aspect may be too strong (granted, quite a few of these changes may be too strong, but that's why it's an idea, right?).

So we changing the Consort name to Pimp? I vote for a Chocolate Giddy-Up avatar.