Jester Buff Concept

[scarfves]

Hehehe... a game... A GAME! What fun, WHAT FUN! Oh me, oh my, catch me if you can, but I'm no ordinary gingerbread man! AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Come on, laugh along, its FUNNY. Oh I shed tears and rub teeth, the idea of the thought of the concept of itself makes me sequel, the poor ol' towns folks must shutter at their thought that they called an innocent man who was terrorized by them!

Ehehehehhe, oooahahaha. I can't stop laughing, its too good, really good, I really want to cry! Now... lets run away for the circus, huh? I think its a good idea to show off our suicide act, its a KILLER!

The Jester and every counterpart in every other social deduction game serves as an immense backbone for the game, infact I'm even writing a game analysis essay on immensely fun karma roles, abilities, and chars. Enough of that, without the Jester, the town could lynch anyone with an improper role will/evidence, even by 1 mistake, without hesitation and sleep soundly for the night, making the game unfun for Evils. However, the Jester still needs a form of an ability that isn't just visit another person, since that will obviously attract the attention of town if you guess who will be visited by which roles and make deducting evils way more harder, or a sort of confirming immunity that usually makes you a prime target already and makes deducting evils even way harder. The following self ability I theorized will only have an impact when used carefully and can help you with forming an alliance with evils or get out of a corner situation, while also being a double-edged gun to the foot if used improperly and carelessly. Or maybe its because a Jester running to the circus for the night makes for a good flavor, hmm. On top of that, I also added more of a penalty for lynching him due to his death from the evil side resulting in a death from either good or evil can make it so Jesters dont create as much suspence as they should, by removing the will of the Jester's haunt, but not their role.

Jester

Role Alignment:
Neutral Evil

Abilities:
- Run away for the night, avoiding all confrontation with anyone. (3 Uses while Alive). (Priority of low 1)
- If you are lynched you will attack one of your guilty or abstaining voters the following night with an Unstoppable attack that cannot be avoided and destroy their will, but not clean their role. (Dead)


Attributes (Alive):
- Control Immune, Roleblock Immune, Detection Immune.
- A Jester who runs away is not affected by anybody visiting, meaning...
- They are immune to all non-astral abilities with a priority of 2 or more, so they can still die from Arsonist ignition (but not their douse), be cleansed by a Guardian Angel, be killed by Pestilence, attacked by a Hex Master, die of Poison, additional Jester haunts, and be slain by a Pirate if they fail to block properly.
- Serial Killer will still track and kill the Jester due to the action counting as a roleblock.
- Jesters can still be Transported early however, due to their priority.
- Anyone who visits the runaway Jester with a priority of 2 or more gets a notification that their target wasn't at home, a dead giveaway at the Jester running away.
- Lookout can still see who visited the Jester during that time along with the notification.
- Ambusher will still kill anyone who visits the Jester.
- Obviously, Jesters will still show up on the Psychic's vision even when they run away, and be Jailed and executed.

Attributes (Dead):
- The guilt of your lynching will cause the selected target to tear apart their will before they die, but still make their role visible from the graveyard.

Notifications:
- Notification for lynching the Jester: The jester will get his revenge from the grave!
- The Jester running out of running aways: You cannot go outside anymore due to your insanity.
- Attempting to visit a Jester when they run away: Your target was not home for the night.

Goal:
Get yourself lynched by any means necessary.

Win Conditions:
Wins with anyone so long as the goal is met.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is not suspicious.
Investigator - Your target could be a Framer, Vampire, or Jester.
Consigilere - Your target wants to be lynched. They must be a Jester.

▲ In short, the main additions to the Jester are 3 all-use confirming vests, and a semi-will clean on the target. I believe if one of the two should enter Town of Salem, it should be the will clean.

Please discuss any questions you with the role or any ideas for changes you might have.

[cob709]

Jester

Role Alignment:
Neutral Evil

Abilities:
- Run away for the night, avoiding all confrontation with anyone. (3 Uses while Alive). (Priority of low 1)
- If you are lynched you will attack one of your guilty or abstaining voters the following night with an Unstoppable attack that cannot be avoided and destroy their will, but not clean their role. (Dead)

Okay so, the only thing that was added is this 3 time use night ability which basically causes all actions against him to fail.
This isn't really useful to the jester, why would he want to confirm himself as jester? Then jailor would simply execute or vigilante will shoot the jester because they are confirmed evil.
Getting the town to pitty-lynch a Jester is not what you're supposed to do, that's not how to play the role. If it comes to a point that you're being attacked at night, then you made a bad move and shouldn't be allowed to avoid the consequences.

Attributes (Alive):
- Control Immune, Roleblock Immune, Detection Immune.
- A Jester who runs away is not affected by anybody visiting, meaning...
- They are immune to all non-astral abilities with a priority of 2 or more, so they can still die from Arsonist ignition (but not their douse), be cleansed by a Guardian Angel, be killed by Pestilence, attacked by a Hex Master, die of Poison, additional Jester haunts, and be slain by a Pirate if they fail to block properly.
- Serial Killer will still track and kill the Jester due to the action counting as a roleblock.
- Jesters can still be Transported early however, due to their priority.
- Anyone who visits the runaway Jester with a priority of 2 or more gets a notification that their target wasn't at home, a dead giveaway at the Jester running away.
- Lookout can still see who visited the Jester during that time along with the notification.
- Ambusher will still kill anyone who visits the Jester.
- Obviously, Jesters will still show up on the Psychic's vision even when they run away, and be Jailed and executed.

Attributes (Dead):
- The guilt of your lynching will cause the selected target to tear apart their will before they die, but still make their role visible from the graveyard.

Okay so the added attributes would make anyone who visits the player will know that they are a Jester.
This wouldn't be good for the Jester because it means nobody will want to lynch them, and thus causes them to lose.

Notifications:
- Notification for lynching the Jester: The jester will get his revenge from the grave!
- The Jester running out of running aways: You cannot go outside anymore due to your insanity.
- Attempting to visit a Jester when they run away: Your target was not home for the night.

Goal:
Get yourself lynched by any means necessary.

Win Conditions:
Wins with anyone so long as the goal is met.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is not suspicious.
Investigator - Your target could be a Framer, Vampire, or Jester.
Consigilere - Your target wants to be lynched. They must be a Jester.

Okay, you didn't change anything here

▲ In short, the main additions to the Jester are 3 all-use confirming vests, and a semi-will clean on the target. I believe if one of the two should enter Town of Salem, it should be the will clean.

Please discuss any questions you with the role or any ideas for changes you might have.

In short, the 3 confirming vests is an awful play for Jester, because then literally nobody will want to lynch them, this wouldn't be a good buff.
The will-wipe is unnecessary and doesn't help Jester, this isn't a buff.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

I kinda agree that the run-away is just a dead give away that you are Jester

A really beneficial buff for Jester which is not as exciting as your idea would be to just give him a couple of bulletproof vests

It would help jester against his main enemy the vigilante and make him more of a priority

Also, it is an indirect buff to Godfather and Neutral Killing roles since if a spy sees that they were attacked there is a slight off chance that they are just a Jester that used their bulletproof vest

But that's just my opinion

A GAME BALANCE OPINION

Thanks for reading

[scarfves]

Jester

Role Alignment:
Neutral Evil

Abilities:
- Run away for the night, avoiding all confrontation with anyone. (3 Uses while Alive). (Priority of low 1)
- If you are lynched you will attack one of your guilty or abstaining voters the following night with an Unstoppable attack that cannot be avoided and destroy their will, but not clean their role. (Dead)

Okay so, the only thing that was added is this 3 time use night ability which basically causes all actions against him to fail.
This isn't really useful to the jester, why would he want to confirm himself as jester? Then jailor would simply execute or vigilante will shoot the jester because they are confirmed evil.
Getting the town to pitty-lynch a Jester is not what you're supposed to do, that's not how to play the role. If it comes to a point that you're being attacked at night, then you made a bad move and shouldn't be allowed to avoid the consequences.

Attributes (Alive):
- Control Immune, Roleblock Immune, Detection Immune.
- A Jester who runs away is not affected by anybody visiting, meaning...
- They are immune to all non-astral abilities with a priority of 2 or more, so they can still die from Arsonist ignition (but not their douse), be cleansed by a Guardian Angel, be killed by Pestilence, attacked by a Hex Master, die of Poison, additional Jester haunts, and be slain by a Pirate if they fail to block properly.
- Serial Killer will still track and kill the Jester due to the action counting as a roleblock.
- Jesters can still be Transported early however, due to their priority.
- Anyone who visits the runaway Jester with a priority of 2 or more gets a notification that their target wasn't at home, a dead giveaway at the Jester running away.
- Lookout can still see who visited the Jester during that time along with the notification.
- Ambusher will still kill anyone who visits the Jester.
- Obviously, Jesters will still show up on the Psychic's vision even when they run away, and be Jailed and executed.

Attributes (Dead):
- The guilt of your lynching will cause the selected target to tear apart their will before they die, but still make their role visible from the graveyard.

Okay so the added attributes would make anyone who visits the player will know that they are a Jester.
This wouldn't be good for the Jester because it means nobody will want to lynch them, and thus causes them to lose.

Notifications:
- Notification for lynching the Jester: The jester will get his revenge from the grave!
- The Jester running out of running aways: You cannot go outside anymore due to your insanity.
- Attempting to visit a Jester when they run away: Your target was not home for the night.

Goal:
Get yourself lynched by any means necessary.

Win Conditions:
Wins with anyone so long as the goal is met.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is not suspicious.
Investigator - Your target could be a Framer, Vampire, or Jester.
Consigilere - Your target wants to be lynched. They must be a Jester.

Okay, you didn't change anything here

▲ In short, the main additions to the Jester are 3 all-use confirming vests, and a semi-will clean on the target. I believe if one of the two should enter Town of Salem, it should be the will clean.

Please discuss any questions you with the role or any ideas for changes you might have.

In short, the 3 confirming vests is an awful play for Jester, because then literally nobody will want to lynch them, this wouldn't be a good buff.
The will-wipe is unnecessary and doesn't help Jester, this isn't a buff.

The main idea is that Jesters can use this ability to save themselves whenever they accidentally appear more trustworthy to town, putting themself in a corner because Maf can and most likely will attack them, or when they feel that they are safe from the night. One problem about a Jester night ability is that if it directly had up sides, it ruins the two biggest aspects of the Jester, his lore and skill. The Jester's main idea is to make the town feel guilty for hanging him despite him doing nothing at all, no direct actions that purposely made him look suspicious, making them feel guilt ridden, and having one of them haunted by their soul, and while this ability can be more harmful then helpful if not used carefully, which is a big idea of it, this can allow the Jester to continue for longer when they feel threatened by actual evils, or need to confirm to an evil. Undoubtly, this sounds dumb to have a ability that in most cases can be a hinderance to looking suspicious as a Jester, but I believe it can have its upsides. Also the will wipe is more of a town nerf, as if Jester is lynched, town will be most affected by his death, mostly to Town Investigator, Support, and Protection due to making it hard to keep tabs on activities for the night, while Mafia aren't too badly affected since they can communicate information in maf chat, and what the fuck will neutrals do? If you're still reading this, I have a bit of a proposal that I ask if you think its a good change to this idea: Remove the notification that the Jester has run away to anyone who visits... and also remove the will-clean (Not much of a Posthumous Jester buff, more of a Town nerf). If this changes anything, comment and continue the discussion.

I kinda agree that the run-away is just a dead give away that you are Jester

A really beneficial buff for Jester which is not as exciting as your idea would be to just give him a couple of bulletproof vests

It would help jester against his main enemy the vigilante and make him more of a priority

Also, it is an indirect buff to Godfather and Neutral Killing roles since if a spy sees that they were attacked there is a slight off chance that they are just a Jester that used their bulletproof vest

But that's just my opinion

A GAME BALANCE OPINION

Thanks for reading

Problem, Jester should not have non-confirming immunities in the slightest, as this makes them way to easy to be susceptible to lynching. If a Jester decides to bullet proof vest while any character shoots them, they effectively survive and get to erase any mistakes they made without much consequence and get to avoid their biggest enemy: The Vigilante who has more than two braincells, while also making themselves more suspicious when someone calls them out on their immunity, something no town other than bodyguard has, only neutrals and evil-gangs which town are free to willing discard. While I believe Jester needs some sort of risky night ability which needs a bad drawback if incorrectly timed, they mostly weave their way into the situation using just words.

[Robbytherobot]

Maybe this run away mechanic should only stop kills from mafia/coven but not give any notifications like how jugg gets no inves results.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

Problem, Jester should not have non-confirming immunities in the slightest, as this makes them way to easy to be susceptible to lynching. If a Jester decides to bullet proof vest while any character shoots them, they effectively survive and get to erase any mistakes they made without much consequence and get to avoid their biggest enemy: The Vigilante who has more than two braincells, while also making themselves more suspicious when someone calls them out on their immunity, something no town other than bodyguard has, only neutrals and evil-gangs which town are free to willing discard. While I believe Jester needs some sort of risky night ability which needs a bad drawback if incorrectly timed, they mostly weave their way into the situation using just words.

I agree with that, I got a pretty funny idea while reading "which needs a bad drawback if incorrectly timed"

Instead of giving Jester just a bulletproof vest,

Jester can have an ability like a mime (You know these wacky clowny white and black striped french men that don't talk). The Jester can create an invisible barrier that makes him unkillable (except from Pestilence attacks) that he can freely move in. This ability can be roleblocked from Escort/Jailor/Consort etc

The fun part: The barrier is stuck on the Jester and he can't break it after forming it so there isn't any oxygen coming into the Jester, so if Jester misuses the barrier; he dies the next day of suffocation from lack of oxygen

A fun way to buff Neutral killings and Jester to trip the town up, Neutral killing's best claim might be Jester after all


Ability: Jester Uses a one-time barrier that gives him the Defense immune. If Jester does not get lynched the next day he will die from lack of oxygen the next night.

[Robbytherobot]

The jester needs a buff from dying early in the game, there are ways to mitigate defense like not letting spy see that they attacked jester. Jester dying early from mafia/sk means that town has no reason not to lynch evils hurting mafia even more than killing a non townie.

[scarfves]

Problem, Jester should not have non-confirming immunities in the slightest, as this makes them way to easy to be susceptible to lynching. If a Jester decides to bullet proof vest while any character shoots them, they effectively survive and get to erase any mistakes they made without much consequence and get to avoid their biggest enemy: The Vigilante who has more than two braincells, while also making themselves more suspicious when someone calls them out on their immunity, something no town other than bodyguard has, only neutrals and evil-gangs which town are free to willing discard. While I believe Jester needs some sort of risky night ability which needs a bad drawback if incorrectly timed, they mostly weave their way into the situation using just words.

I agree with that, I got a pretty funny idea while reading "which needs a bad drawback if incorrectly timed"

Instead of giving Jester just a bulletproof vest,

Jester can have an ability like a mime (You know these wacky clowny white and black striped french men that don't talk). The Jester can create an invisible barrier that makes him unkillable (except from Pestilence attacks) that he can freely move in. This ability can be roleblocked from Escort/Jailor/Consort etc

The fun part: The barrier is stuck on the Jester and he can't break it after forming it so there isn't any oxygen coming into the Jester, so if Jester misuses the barrier; he dies the next day of suffocation from lack of oxygen

A fun way to buff Neutral killings and Jester to trip the town up, Neutral killing's best claim might be Jester after all


Ability: Jester Uses a one-time barrier that gives him the Defense immune. If Jester does not get lynched the next day he will die from lack of oxygen the next night.

Even though the flavor and asset of this idea sounds bad, I genuinely really like this idea. It has one of the absolute best risks I've seen whilst also having a good reward if used carefully. If used on a night you are attacked, this gives the attacker two choices, alert the town right away and most surely give them lynched, or let them go another night in the case if they are a Jester and die. I absolutely love the idea, and will make another post later implementing it (albeit with a different flavor and text) instead of the whole running away thing, since even though it gives the Jester night immunity on the night used, it kills them if they use it at the wrong time or doesn't make opportune use of it. +1

[Savagepeyton]

Jester wins all the time. It doesn't need a buff. By far the NE with the highest win rate. /nosupport

[FrenchyTheSphee]

Jester wins all the time. It doesn't need a buff. By far the NE with the highest win rate. /nosupport

You are talking about Executioner

[dolphina]

Jester wins all the time. It doesn't need a buff. By far the NE with the highest win rate. /nosupport

You are talking about Executioner

Does exe win more than jest? In my experience I can win as jest pretty easily, but I'm not sure if it's just my elo range.

Your elo is f*cking trash!
Shut up, I haven't played in a while.

[scarfves]

Jester wins all the time. It doesn't need a buff. By far the NE with the highest win rate. /nosupport

You are talking about Executioner

Does exe win more than jest? In my experience I can win as jest pretty easily, but I'm not sure if it's just my elo range

In truth I do bet that executioners win the most in TOS due to the fact that you can team up with maf to hang a confirmed townie, but most tend to be silent about it and not reveal it, since they really have no point to say "I WIN AS EXE" and they can screw around with the town with no consequences. You only really see this at the end of the game when it shows the roles and names.

[Savagepeyton]

In truth I do bet that executioners win the most in TOS due to the fact that you can team up with maf to hang a confirmed townie, but most tend to be silent about it and not reveal it, since they really have no point to say "I WIN AS EXE" and they can screw around with the town with no consequences. You only really see this at the end of the game when it shows the roles and names.

Even if executioners do win more (which I personally doubt based off of games I play), that still doesn't mean jester needs a buff. Jesters win so often that they may be giving mafia a run for the money in number of wins. In other words, devs shouldn't waste time buffing a role that doesn't need a buff. Not all roles need to be jailor/spy level. If devs are going to buff neutrals, THEY NEED TO SPEND TIME ON NKS!

[dolphina]

In truth I do bet that executioners win the most in TOS due to the fact that you can team up with maf to hang a confirmed townie, but most tend to be silent about it and not reveal it, since they really have no point to say "I WIN AS EXE" and they can screw around with the town with no consequences. You only really see this at the end of the game when it shows the roles and names.

Even if executioners do win more (which I personally doubt based off of games I play), that still doesn't mean jester needs a buff. Jesters win so often that they may be giving mafia a run for the money in number of wins. In other words, devs shouldn't waste time buffing a role that doesn't need a buff. Not all roles need to be jailor/spy level. If devs are going to buff neutrals, THEY NEED TO SPEND TIME ON NKS!

Oh your opinion is wrong noted

Mafia wins way less than town and jester wins more than mafia

[scarfves]

In truth I do bet that executioners win the most in TOS due to the fact that you can team up with maf to hang a confirmed townie, but most tend to be silent about it and not reveal it, since they really have no point to say "I WIN AS EXE" and they can screw around with the town with no consequences. You only really see this at the end of the game when it shows the roles and names.

Even if executioners do win more (which I personally doubt based off of games I play), that still doesn't mean jester needs a buff. Jesters win so often that they may be giving mafia a run for the money in number of wins. In other words, devs shouldn't waste time buffing a role that doesn't need a buff. Not all roles need to be jailor/spy level. If devs are going to buff neutrals, THEY NEED TO SPEND TIME ON NKS!

Oh your opinion is wrong noted

Mafia wins way less than town and jester wins more than mafia

While I do believe that Jester wins more than Mafia and Witch, the Jester has two flaws that make it lose due to unfortunate circumstance. 1. They are the only Neutral Evil with a negative effect on the town (Executioner targets townies, Witch can't live with townies), and 2. It isn't obvious when a Jester is NE or NK to evils. Those are the ground-shakers for the Jester that even when they have a high skill level, can fall under due to luck. The two ideas implemented (leaving the house and will destroying of haunt target) are meant to help Jesters with other Maf. If a mafia visits the Jester while they hide and run away, or even just the NK, they can spend time helping them up to the podium and getting them to target someone since they are a confirmed Jester at that point, with the only way to have it fuck up is by a convenient transporter. With the other idea of will-destroying, this is a purely negative effect on the town, as most of the time, the evil's wills are fake, and if they did have sensative information to bite another person back at them, they'd share it with a team if they had one, which is crucial for doing so. I'm not going to deny, I love the Jester due to his influence on the game structure of the gamemodes he's in, infact I believe I have the best W/L as ratio as him with aprox. 70% wins, but I also can't deny a bunch of deaths being bullshit due to 1 bad night where I was conveniently targeted (I can remember 5 instance). The Jester needs a sort of Night Ability (specifically anything that isn't passive) that can support him well but can bite back at him if used incorrectly, being an insane risk reward in the right scenarios, and as I said, even if the Jester had to pick one of the two abilities, it'd make it the Will-Destroy on death to be more of a neutral evil.

EDIT: Oh and on the subject on NK's, they need a change aswell, I can tell you NK's are the least winning roles, hell I don't play much all anys or group-based customs, but I can tell you I've seen more NC win more than NK. I'm planning on writing a fix specifically for the serial killer (hes just a godfather but 100% shittier, I can't name 1 thing he does objectively better), the Werewolf (rampage is a bad mechanic), and Arsonist (a lot of times he loses to random chance because he douses someone mafia randomly decides to kill).

[CrimsonKatana]

This buff sux