Husk - Neutral Evil

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Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:27 am

Husk
Neutral Evil

Abilities:
  • Each night you may target a player, you will know the exact roles that visited that player, ignoring repeated actions.
  • Each night, after the first, you will repeat all actions performed onto your last target onto your new target.
  • Any feedback/actions that affected a target you're imitating will be given to you. e.g. Repeating a BG protect will kill the Husk.

Attributes:
  • A lookout will see the Husk visit, not the names of who they imitate.
  • If an ability would inherit a Spy bug result, it will still give that result when a Husk imitates visitors.

Example Scenario
N1: Husk targets A. Lookout, Sheriff visited.
N2: Husk targets B. Bodyguard + Mafioso visited. -> "Your target is not suspicious" "John Proctor and Abigail Hobbs visited your target".
N3: Husk targets C. Husk dies to BG. C is notified of being attacked and protected.

Thoughts? Be gentle uwu

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Husk - Neutral Evil
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby cob709 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:49 pm

I like your formatting, can I see the BBCode you used for the role name/alignment?

Alright so this role is a jack of all trades? It steals the roles of players that visit their target and then uses them the next night. Sounds like an interesting idea.
This role can be very powerful if used correctly, yeah this is good.

Though, there would be a problem if the Husk gets an ability that needs two targets, the UI would become confusing.
For example, if the Husk gets the ability of a witch, and transporter, then they need 2 targets.
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:53 pm

cob709 wrote:I like your formatting, can I see the BBCode you used for the role name/alignment?

Alright so this role is a jack of all trades? It steals the roles of players that visit their target and then uses them the next night. Sounds like an interesting idea.
This role can be very powerful if used correctly, yeah this is good.

Though, there would be a problem if the Husk gets an ability that needs two targets, the UI would become confusing.
For example, if the Husk gets the ability of a witch, and transporter, then they need 2 targets.


I usually just make the role-name the largest it can go lol.
Code: Select all
[color=#A68A17][b][size=200]Husk[/size][/b][/color]
[b]Neutral Evil[/b]


For the 2-target actions I think it should either use the same second target as was used, if not that I don't think they should be able to control it so probably would end up targeting the Husk.
EDIT: Honestly I need to do some thinking towards what the Husk does with a 2 target role

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby Atomic5802 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:26 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
cob709 wrote:I like your formatting, can I see the BBCode you used for the role name/alignment?

Alright so this role is a jack of all trades? It steals the roles of players that visit their target and then uses them the next night. Sounds like an interesting idea.
This role can be very powerful if used correctly, yeah this is good.

Though, there would be a problem if the Husk gets an ability that needs two targets, the UI would become confusing.
For example, if the Husk gets the ability of a witch, and transporter, then they need 2 targets.


I usually just make the role-name the largest it can go lol.
Code: Select all
[color=#A68A17][b][size=200]Husk[/size][/b][/color]
[b]Neutral Evil[/b]


For the 2-target actions I think it should either use the same second target as was used, if not that I don't think they should be able to control it so probably would end up targeting the Husk.
EDIT: Honestly I need to do some thinking towards what the Husk does with a 2 target role

Maybe make the action fail
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby Soulshade55r » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:53 am

quite a intresting idea I don't like the idea of copying killing abilities especially if the can find the mafia seems a bit powerful in that situation

my thoughts on it would be it's a intresting NE that could work and I'm guessing it has the witch wincon
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:40 am

Soulshade55r wrote:quite a intresting idea I don't like the idea of copying killing abilities especially if the can find the mafia seems a bit powerful in that situation

my thoughts on it would be it's a intresting NE that could work and I'm guessing it has the witch wincon


Actively copying the kill wouldn't be too powerful considering it would have a 0.5KPN regardless if they've found the mafia and 5 SK's.
N1: Copy Kill
N2: Perform kill
N3: Copy Kill


Even if cross-kills happen, the mafia/SKs will never get more than 0.5KPN from this.
Yeah it has the wincon every NE should have, win if town loses even when dead. I am thinking of making it unique however, because a Husk imitating a Husk action seems OP as heckers.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby Robbytherobot » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:09 am

This seems like fun, though I would give this a defense like witch/exe as jester doesnt have one because it would make the role too easy, but this needs one.
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby dolphina » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:44 am

Robbytherobot wrote:This seems like fun, though I would give this a defense like witch/exe as jester doesnt have one because it would make the role too easy, but this needs one.

Imagine this but in #BF0040. My opinion.
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:53 pm

dolphina wrote:
Robbytherobot wrote:This seems like fun, though I would give this a defense like witch/exe as jester doesnt have one because it would make the role too easy, but this needs one.

Imagine this but in #BF0040. My opinion.

Yeah it should have basic defence, but nothing stronger than that imo.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Husk - Neutral Evil
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:16 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:I am thinking of making it unique however, because a Husk imitating a Husk action seems OP as heckers.


How so?

You mean in the sense of the Husk copying the specific effects of the other Husk's visit, resulting in two Husks together keeping all their abilities if they make sure to always visit the same target as each other? That's only a KPN of 1.0 for two people, so not that overpowered...

...but I think it would be more intuitive for a Husk to not get anything from another Husk's visit. In other words, it copies the "Husk ability to copy", not the specific abilities that were being copied - and since it's already a Husk, copying the ability to be a Husk does nothing.

JacksonVirgo wrote:Yeah it should have basic defence, but nothing stronger than that imo.



I'd give it a one-shot scumvest.
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:40 pm

Brilliand wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:I am thinking of making it unique however, because a Husk imitating a Husk action seems OP as heckers.


How so?

You mean in the sense of the Husk copying the specific effects of the other Husk's visit, resulting in two Husks together keeping all their abilities if they make sure to always visit the same target as each other? That's only a KPN of 1.0 for two people, so not that overpowered...

...but I think it would be more intuitive for a Husk to not get anything from another Husk's visit. In other words, it copies the "Husk ability to copy", not the specific abilities that were being copied - and since it's already a Husk, copying the ability to be a Husk does nothing.

JacksonVirgo wrote:Yeah it should have basic defence, but nothing stronger than that imo.



I'd give it a one-shot scumvest.


Husk copying the husk's ability instead of imitiating what they're imitating makes a lot of sense and would be much better so I agree with that. And yeah a 1-shot scumvest like witch would make a lot more sense, the main reason I was thinking plain basic defence was in the case of imitating a vigilante shot and a lookout shot on themself to see their visitors. It wouldn't kill them and they'd see who visited them etc.

But I can also see that if a vigi shot was given to them, they'd likely just kill a town with it. So yeah I have to agree with you on that one too

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:42 am

I kind of dread the situation where the Husk watches a BG kill an evil. After seeing that, the Husk can't visit again, because all he will accomplish is to kill himself.

The Husk should definitely have an out for that situation. Maybe the Husk only copies what he saw the previous night (as opposed to his previous visit)?
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby cob709 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:09 am

Brilliand wrote:I kind of dread the situation where the Husk watches a BG kill an evil. After seeing that, the Husk can't visit again, because all he will accomplish is to kill himself.

The Husk should definitely have an out for that situation. Maybe the Husk only copies what he saw the previous night (as opposed to his previous visit)?

I think Husk should only keep their copied abilities for one night. If they choose to not use the ability, they will lose it.
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:16 am

Brilliand wrote:I kind of dread the situation where the Husk watches a BG kill an evil. After seeing that, the Husk can't visit again, because all he will accomplish is to kill himself.

The Husk should definitely have an out for that situation. Maybe the Husk only copies what he saw the previous night (as opposed to his previous visit)?

Yeah that is a good point but that would make it way too slow in the circumstance of catching a Crusader/BG protect, maybe they can have a day-action to "reset" where they forget what actions were performed and just visit a player to imitate again. This would be better than wasting a night completely just because they caught a BG protect.

N2: Saw BG/Mafioso visit.
D2: Forget results.
N3: Watch for actions instead of performing them as well.


Instead of.
N2: Saw BG/Mafioso visit.
N3: Do nothing to not die.
N4: Watch for actions - Perform nothing
N4: Do actions etc.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:18 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
Brilliand wrote:I kind of dread the situation where the Husk watches a BG kill an evil. After seeing that, the Husk can't visit again, because all he will accomplish is to kill himself.

The Husk should definitely have an out for that situation. Maybe the Husk only copies what he saw the previous night (as opposed to his previous visit)?

Yeah that is a good point but that would make it way too slow in the circumstance of catching a Crusader/BG protect, maybe they can have a day-action to "reset" where they forget what actions were performed and just visit a player to imitate again. This would be better than wasting a night completely just because they caught a BG protect.

N2: Saw BG/Mafioso visit.
D2: Forget results.
N3: Watch for actions instead of performing them as well.


Instead of.
N2: Saw BG/Mafioso visit.
N3: Do nothing to not die.
N4: Watch for actions - Perform nothing
N4: Do actions etc.


Either that or what cob said below and it only lasts for the next night. Although I still think having that day-action to not waste an action is pretty good.

cob709 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:I kind of dread the situation where the Husk watches a BG kill an evil. After seeing that, the Husk can't visit again, because all he will accomplish is to kill himself.

The Husk should definitely have an out for that situation. Maybe the Husk only copies what he saw the previous night (as opposed to his previous visit)?

I think Husk should only keep their copied abilities for one night. If they choose to not use the ability, they will lose it.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby ImposterK » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:47 pm

I like this idea but there's potentially a big issue. It relies entirely on the visits of others to be useful which can be random. Can you visit yourself? If not, I think you should be able to.
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby Mystoc » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:43 pm

doesnt fit NE at all it can take killing roles and kill multiple times like mafioso or NK, as general rule NE is allowed to kill once a game maybe twice

it gets super overpowered late game since its more and more likey to get a killing ability each night it can even cordiante with mafia to visit the target that will die by them if they find mafia when they become invest or sherrif for a night

it could also take a role like vig and shoot another evil, NE should never be able to directly hurt other evils, jester can only do it if voted up and if an evil also votes guilty, this role can do it just by visiting a role that is killed

change this to town only roles and this is balanced
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:28 pm

ImposterK wrote:I like this idea but there's potentially a big issue. It relies entirely on the visits of others to be useful which can be random. Can you visit yourself? If not, I think you should be able to.

Yeah this role can self-visit.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:36 pm

Mystoc wrote:doesnt fit NE at all it can take killing roles and kill multiple times like mafioso or NK, as general rule NE is allowed to kill once a game maybe twice

it gets super overpowered late game since its more and more likey to get a killing ability each night it can even cordiante with mafia to visit the target that will die by them if they find mafia when they become invest or sherrif for a night

it could also take a role like vig and shoot another evil, NE should never be able to directly hurt other evils, jester can only do it if voted up and if an evil also votes guilty, this role can do it just by visiting a role that is killed

change this to town only roles and this is balanced

I don't see how it doesn't fit NE, a KPN of 0.5, if you're wasting other utility and gotten lucky enough or late-game enough to communicate with mafia, isn't that bad.
Assuming a game gets to N7. It would likely not find a kill until N3 or N4 without any consigliere to find them which is a lower chance anyway.
If they copy a kill N4, they get a kill N5 and it's not 100% they're in kahoots with the mafia anyway. Early game it's not an issue.
Late game it isn't an issue either as it would only get 1 kill in three nights. N4 copy, N5 kill, N6 copy and that would also mean that they'd be whispering which would be a giveaway to any town that's looking.

If they do get in kahoots with the mafia, Town should utilise that chat by seeing who is whispering to who. I see your point, I do but I am not entirely sure if that's super unbalanced as it is.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Husk - Neutral Evil

Postby Mystoc » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:34 pm

I don't see how it doesn't fit NE, a KPN of 0.5, if you're wasting other utility and gotten lucky enough or late-game enough to communicate with mafia, isn't that bad.

.5 is way to much for NE no other NE can even directly kill, witch redirects kills that already exist it cannot create new kills, jester and exec interact with voting and acting not direct powers but the ability to convince others and only ever kill once.

its actually easy to find mafia cause any TI role helps you find them you being LO Sherrif and Invest all help find mafia and LO guarantees it


Assuming a game gets to N7. It would likely not find a kill until N3 or N4 without any consigliere to find them which is a lower chance anyway.

most likely does mean not every game such wild variance seems more like NC role for custom games to me, the fact it can kill other evils by accident or even on purpose does not fit NE at all

this role gets to use abilities each night after n1. its more likely n2 or n3


If they copy a kill N4, they get a kill N5 and it's not 100% they're in kahoots with the mafia anyway. Early game it's not an issue.
Late game it isn't an issue either as it would only get 1 kill in three nights. N4 copy, N5 kill, N6 copy and that would also mean that they'd be whispering which would be a giveaway to any town that's looking.

at best its every other night not every 1 out 3

not really can whisper diff members off each time, whispering itself isnt susp town do it all the time

If they do get in kahoots with the mafia, Town should utilise that chat by seeing who is whispering to who. I see your point, I do but I am not entirely sure if that's super unbalanced as it is.

the points isnt really that at best if this role played perfectly it gets .5 kills a night which i know is super unlikey, the point its the only NE role that can generate kills by itself and add kills to the game, no other NE role can do it, this role is also equally harmful to evils and town if gets when it gets TK roles, and if its gets doc or TP it wouldn't even want to use the ability because its to likely they target town.
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