Framer(Buff)

[cob709]

The framer is an incredibly under powered role, since the Hex Master is literally a framer but permanent. So here's a buff that makes it important.

- Framer should keep its original abilities.
- Framer has the additional abilities:
Framer may visit Mafia players
Framed Mafia members will not appear suspicious to sheriff.
This ability does not consume charges.

This gives the framer the option to protect the mafia from TI or trick the TI into lynching other players

Framer shouldn't make a mafia member show as innocent, that should be Godfather's perk only. Instead of that how about you may select a player to frame and a player to focus. If a LO/Tracker checks the framed player they actually see them visit what the focused did instead of their normal action.

Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Tracker sees X visit the kill target.
Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Lookout sees X visit the kill instead of Y but ALL other visits will be seen normally

That adds the Lookout/Tracker to the framers abilities.

Edit:

Sheriff - Sees the framed target as Suspicious.
Investigator - Sees the framed target as Framer's result.
Psychic - Will have the chance to have the framed target in the evil visions.
Lookout - Can force the LO to see the framed players visit instead of the killer.
Tracker - Can trick the tracker into seeing the kill target instead of their normal action
Spy - Focused players can be seen as visited by the mafia, may visit Mafia with this action to fool Spy.


That seems to be all of the TI roles and it should work for all of them in a lot of scenarios

Edit 2:
Maybe Investigator should see the result of the focused player for more options

[JakeTheSnake5963]

/support

I believe something like this is already in the works, but I am not entirely sure. I like these ideas a lot regardless.

[lemonader666]

oh hello there generic framer rework #135225584

[dolphina]

Eh who cares lemon kfc boy

/support

[Soulshade55r]

Framer needs a way to trick all Ti roles not anti frames (limited might be fine but obviously they won't frame and just spam anti framing)

Already plently of reworks that fix a way for framer to trick spies and Lookouts

[videogamecin]

What about this?:
Framer has 2 (or 1) chance(s) to use their framing ability in a single game. When they use it, they mess up all the Sheriff results of that night -- the Townie(s) who are interrogated will appear evil to the Sheriff(s) and the evils will appear good. So Framer won't target any specific person but will have a limited ability to mess up all the results in a night.

[Brilliand]

The problem with this rework is that it only affects one additional TI role: the Spy. The key to making a good Framer rework is to have it mess with every TI role.

I'm certain someone has previously posted a Framer rework that meets that standard, but I can't seem to find it right now.

[CrimsonKatana]

Oh nawwwwwwwwwwww not about this grind cuh

[JacksonVirgo]

Framer shouldn't make a mafia member show as innocent, that should be Godfather's perk only. Instead of that how about you may select a player to frame and a player to focus. If a LO/Tracker checks the framed player they actually see them visit what the focused did instead of their normal action.

Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Tracker sees X visit the kill target.
Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Lookout sees X visit the kill instead of Y but ALL other visits will be seen normally

That adds the Lookout/Tracker to the framers abilities.

Edit:

Sheriff - Sees the framed target as Suspicious.
Investigator - Sees the framed target as Framer's result.
Psychic - Will have the chance to have the framed target in the evil visions.
Lookout - Can force the LO to see the framed players visit instead of the killer.
Tracker - Can trick the tracker into seeing the kill target instead of their normal action
Spy - Focused players can be seen as visited by the mafia, may visit Mafia with this action to fool Spy.


That seems to be all of the TI roles and it should work for all of them in a lot of scenarios

Edit 2:
Maybe Investigator should see the result of the focused player for more options

[cob709]

Framer shouldn't make a mafia member show as innocent, that should be Godfather's perk only. Instead of that how about you may select a player to frame and a player to focus. If a LO/Tracker checks the framed player they actually see them visit what the focused did instead of their normal action.

Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Tracker sees X visit the kill target.
Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Lookout sees X visit the kill instead of Y but ALL other visits will be seen normally

That adds the Lookout/Tracker to the framers abilities.

Edit:

Sheriff - Sees the framed target as Suspicious.
Investigator - Sees the framed target as Framer's result.
Psychic - Will have the chance to have the framed target in the evil visions.
Lookout - Can force the LO to see the framed players visit instead of the killer.
Tracker - Can trick the tracker into seeing the kill target instead of their normal action
Spy - Focused players can be seen as visited by the mafia, may visit Mafia with this action to fool Spy.


That seems to be all of the TI roles and it should work for all of them in a lot of scenarios

Edit 2:
Maybe Investigator should see the result of the focused player for more options

I like this idea! It basically swaps the names of Target 1(mafia) with Target 2(townie).
You should make a post on the Role Ideas thread.

[Brilliand]

Framer shouldn't make a mafia member show as innocent, that should be Godfather's perk only. Instead of that how about you may select a player to frame and a player to focus. If a LO/Tracker checks the framed player they actually see them visit what the focused did instead of their normal action.

Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Tracker sees X visit the kill target.
Framed X, focus Y. Y is mafioso doing the kill. Lookout sees X visit the kill instead of Y but ALL other visits will be seen normally

That adds the Lookout/Tracker to the framers abilities.

Edit:

Sheriff - Sees the framed target as Suspicious.
Investigator - Sees the framed target as Framer's result.
Psychic - Will have the chance to have the framed target in the evil visions.
Lookout - Can force the LO to see the framed players visit instead of the killer.
Tracker - Can trick the tracker into seeing the kill target instead of their normal action
Spy - Focused players can be seen as visited by the mafia, may visit Mafia with this action to fool Spy.


That seems to be all of the TI roles and it should work for all of them in a lot of scenarios

Edit 2:
Maybe Investigator should see the result of the focused player for more options

This is good, but why the "Focused" mechanic? I think it would work just fine to have the "Focused" player always be the Mafia member performing the kill, instead of giving the Framer a choice of who to focus. That way the Framer remains a single-target role.

[JacksonVirgo]

--trimmed
This is good, but why the "Focused" mechanic? I think it would work just fine to have the "Focused" player always be the Mafia member performing the kill, instead of giving the Framer a choice of who to focus. That way the Framer remains a single-target role.

The focused mechanic is to give the Framer more utility in different circumstances. For example, framing someone as a blackmailer/consort.

[JacksonVirgo]

--trimmed

I like this idea! It basically swaps the names of Target 1(mafia) with Target 2(townie).
You should make a post on the Role Ideas thread.

We can just keep the discussion in here, saves there being a shit tonne of threads about the same topic. I will be however revising my old mafia balancing to take into consideration a lot I've learned about balance over the past year so maybe you'll see it there.

Though I think that rework is the best we're gonna get without reworking the entire role and I think it works fine tbh

[RapGod2000]

This a really good idea, I hate getting Framer generally, especially if their is a Spy but this could be very useful.

[Brilliand]

This a really good idea

Which idea?

Right now there are two completely different ideas in the OP.

Maybe that should be fixed, but on the other hand I kinda like that people like RapGod who make useless comments don't even make sense when they post here.

We can just keep the discussion in here, saves there being a shit tonne of threads about the same topic.

RapGod just demonstrated one problem with doing it this way. Another problem is that when recommending your idea to the devs, we can't just link to the thread; we would have to quote your idea in its entirety (unless your idea gets its very own thread).

[JacksonVirgo]

This a really good idea

Which idea?

Right now there are two completely different ideas in the OP.

Maybe that should be fixed, but on the other hand I kinda like that people like RapGod who make useless comments don't even make sense when they post here.

We can just keep the discussion in here, saves there being a shit tonne of threads about the same topic.

RapGod just demonstrated one problem with doing it this way. Another problem is that when recommending your idea to the devs, we can't just link to the thread; we would have to quote your idea in its entirety (unless your idea gets its very own thread).

So you're thinking it's probably good to make a new thread for my idea?

[Brilliand]

So you're thinking it's probably good to make a new thread for my idea?

Yes.