Prospector (Neutral Killing)

[BFFPanda]

if you vote for "maybe with a few tweakers" please make sure you comment what changes you would make!

now with 10 supporters O.O

Role Name:
Prospector

Role Alignment:
Neutral (Killing)

Stats:
Attack: Unstoppable
Defense: Basic

Abilities:
-Every odd night, choose 1 person's house to plant dynamite.
-You may plant dynamite at your own house.

Attributes:
-Every Full Moon night, your dynamite will explode.
-Targets will know they have Dynamite planted on them.
-Dynamite may be removed if the target is visited by a Bodyguard.
-If your target is not guarded, you will deal your target an Astral Unstoppable attack.
-If you place dynamite at your own house, all visitors will be dealt the attack.
-If no one visits you, you will die instead.

Notifications:
When choosing on odd nights:
"You have decided to plant dynamite at XXXXXXX's house tonight."

When exploding on even nights:
"The suspense is killing you! You cannot wait any longer and will explode your Dynamite tonight."

Death:
"He/She was blown up by a Prospector."

"You have been blown up by a Prospector!"
"You have died!"

Goal:
Live to see everyone blown to smithereens.

Win Conditions:
Wins with:
Prospector
Witch
Survivor

Must kill:
Town
Mafia
Serial Killer
Arsonist
Werewolf
Vampire
Coven
Plaguebearer
Pestilence
Juggernaut

You may spare anyone else.

Special Attributes:
Dynamite may not be placed during Full Moons. This is when your dynamite explodes.
Dynamite will stay planted on those that die, and even those revived by a Retributionist.
Those revived will die the next Full Moon night unless their dynamite is removed by a Bodyguard.


Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is suspicious!
Investigator - Your target could be a Bodyguard, Godfather, Arsonist, (Crusader), or Prospector.
Consigliere - Your target has an obsession with explosives. They must be a Prospector!

Achievements:
None Yet.

Additional Information:
I had a stroke of inspiration to make a Neutral Killing after Exposer didn't go over well with people. This is designed to be a fun twist on the Arsonist while having Poisoner and Werewolf influences. There is a large amount of strategy involved, as you do not want your planted targets to die, so, similar to Arsonist, keeping targets alive is crucial, making it important to be strategic with who you plant. Also, the added mechanic of placing at yourself is a huge risk, but could pay off big time.

Also, thanks to AlanTheBoringMan for the suggestion:

I like the idea but I feel like it makes more sense for a bodyguard to be able to handle the dynamite. Doctor already heals poisons and I think it could be a good way for Bodyguards to be able to confirm themselves since they are believed so little in game.

TG discord questions:
Oily (TG Balancer) > question: what about this role is unique to play?
it is the only neutral killing with a huge risk/reward opportunity. You have a chance of committing suicide when you place dynamite at yourself, which is a very easy thing to do in the early game.

Oily (TG Balancer) > what is the appeal of playing this over the other NKs?
The Prospector is a very intricate role, with so much opportunity to fail, but also so much opportunity to succeed big time. The fun comes in the form of "gambling" on a potential suicide. The huge risk/reward factor of this role can get the adrenaline rushing, and with the small chance of killing someone with your normal ability, it really encourages using your gamble ability.

Lore:
Pre-Game: "You are a crazed miner with extra dynamite lying around."

If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, let me know! I'm open to constructive criticism but will ignore bland "no" responses.

Also, if I ever contradict myself in this post, feel free to call me out. Things I’ve changed in one part of the post might have not been changed in another part.

It's just an idea, I want to know what everyone else thinks!


Changelog:
5/22 original post
5/22 Complete mechanic rework
5/26 Bombs are now removed by Bodyguard visits, rather than doctor visits.

[KAKERMAN23]

This seems like a creative idea. I just have one question: What is the attack and defense for this role? I'm guessing that it has an unstoppable attack since it's able to bypass protective roles, but I could be wrong. There's no indication of what the defense value is, though. Is this role night immune or not?

[BFFPanda]

This seems like a creative idea. I just have one question: What is the attack and defense for this role? I'm guessing that it has an unstoppable attack since it's able to bypass protective roles, but I could be wrong. There's no indication of what the defense value is, though. Is this role night immune or not?

Ah yes, thank you for pointing this out. Like any NK they have Basic Defense, and an Unstoppable Attack.

[WreakerOfClash]

I like this idea. It's a better Poisoner with a WW attack but since you're a solo faction, I guess the improve is good. My issue is that you don't gain anything from a Doctor getting off an important target to clean the dynamite. With Coven you can get your fellow Coven members to target the player being healed but for you, you just sit there and let it happen because nobody can do anything.

[BFFPanda]

I like this idea. It's a better Poisoner with a WW attack but since you're a solo faction, I guess the improve is good.
much appreciated, thank you!

My issue is that you don't gain anything from a Doctor getting off an important target to clean the dynamite.
could you elaborate? i don’t understand what you mean :/

With Coven you can get your fellow Coven members to target the player being healed but for you, you just sit there and let it happen because nobody can do anything.
i think i understand what you mean, but could you elaborate? sorry :/

[AlanTheBoringMan]

I like the idea but I feel like it makes more sense for a bodyguard to be able to handle the dynamite. Doctor already heals poisons and I think it could be a good way for Bodyguards to be able to confirm themselves since they are believed so little in game.

[KAKERMAN23]

That would also make more sense lore-wise, since a doctor wouldn't know shit about a bomb. Also, doctors already heal poison, as was stated before.

[BFFPanda]

I like the idea but I feel like it makes more sense for a bodyguard to be able to handle the dynamite. Doctor already heals poisons and I think it could be a good way for Bodyguards to be able to confirm themselves since they are believed so little in game.

Changed it! thanks for the suggestion.

That would also make more sense lore-wise, since a doctor wouldn't know shit about a bomb. Also, doctors already heal poison, as was stated before.

Yeah now that I think about it BG makes more sense than a doc.

[BFFPanda]

here’s a teensy bump cause people seem to like the idea

[Pikachu5128]

bumpy bumpy (i like this idea) bumpy bumpy

[BFFPanda]

i don’t pay attention for a week and it’s already on the second page smh

[Brilliand]

Does this kill visitors to its target? Some parts seem to imply that it would but I can't find a line that actually says that it does. (It seems like it would have to, since 1 kill every 2 nights is far too weak; on the other hand if it does rampage, it's not much different from Weerewolf).

The "potential suicide" function seems like a bad mechanic to me. It really isn't worth the risk. Consider that Werewolf can do the same thing without the risk of death, and usually doesn't because it isn't worth the risk of not killing anyone.

Also:

i don’t pay attention for a week and it’s already on the second page smh

Yeah don't try to keep this on the front page forever, you just wind up in a fight with other people posting roles, resulting in lots of spam posts.

[BFFPanda]

Does this kill visitors to its target? No, it only kills the target. The attack is an Astral Unstoppable attack, making rampage in this case extremely overpowered.

Some parts seem to imply that it would but I can't find a line that actually says that it does. (It seems like it would have to, since 1 kill every 2 nights is far too weak; Like i said, it is not necessarily weak; an unstoppable attack would bypass jail, doctors, and roles with powerful defense (though i don’t think there is one). Therefore, the ability to bypass these things is really powerful in and of itself, so i wouldn’t say it’s weak in any sense of the word.

(on the other hand if it does rampage, it's not much different from Weerewolf). That’s why i think it’s best if it doesn’t rampage, as it would just be a nerfed werewolf.

The "potential suicide" function seems like a bad mechanic to me. It really isn't worth the risk.Everyone visiting is dealt an astral unstoppable attack, much more powerful than werewolf. that means a doctor can’t heal a vigilante to “tank” the attack, as would be the case if you were to suspect someone of being a werewolf. a strategy is to heal the vigilante so they wont die to the werewolf, confirming that the suspect has high defense without the risk of dying to them. (if that makes sense). In this scenario, it makes sense that a really powerful attack like this should be a double-edged sword.
Consider that Werewolf can do the same thing without the risk of death, and usually doesn't because it isn't worth the risk of not killing anyone. See above.

[Brilliand]

Some parts seem to imply that it would but I can't find a line that actually says that it does. (It seems like it would have to, since 1 kill every 2 nights is far too weak; Like i said, it is not necessarily weak; an unstoppable attack would bypass jail, doctors, and roles with powerful defense (though i don’t think there is one). Therefore, the ability to bypass these things is really powerful in and of itself, so i wouldn’t say it’s weak in any sense of the word.

An Unstoppable attack is something, but it isn't worth a KPN of 0.5 Compare the Arsonist; the Arsonist at worst does an Astral Unstoppable attack with a KPN of 0.5, but it can usually do better than that by dousing multiple people.

The "potential suicide" function seems like a bad mechanic to me. It really isn't worth the risk.Everyone visiting is dealt an astral unstoppable attack, much more powerful than werewolf. that means a doctor can’t heal a vigilante to “tank” the attack, as would be the case if you were to suspect someone of being a werewolf. a strategy is to heal the vigilante so they wont die to the werewolf, confirming that the suspect has high defense without the risk of dying to them. (if that makes sense). In this scenario, it makes sense that a really powerful attack like this should be a double-edged sword.
Consider that Werewolf can do the same thing without the risk of death, and usually doesn't because it isn't worth the risk of not killing anyone. See above.

But why would a Werewolf stay home to kill the Vigi anyway? A better plan would be to attack the Vigi directly, which would be guaranteed to at least kill somebody (probably the Vigi, but maybe a Doctor in the rare case that there's a Doctor on the Vigi). This will even kill the Vigi if he doesn't shoot, or shoots the wrong person.

There's just no point in staying home to maybe kill visitors if you could be out attacking someone directly instead. This would be true even without the suicide mechanic.

Also note that if you kill multiple visitors this way, you've just outed yourself - only the Medusa can safely cause a mass slaughter (because she erases their wills).

[cob709]

Some parts seem to imply that it would but I can't find a line that actually says that it does. (It seems like it would have to, since 1 kill every 2 nights is far too weak; Like i said, it is not necessarily weak; an unstoppable attack would bypass jail, doctors, and roles with powerful defense (though i don’t think there is one). Therefore, the ability to bypass these things is really powerful in and of itself, so i wouldn’t say it’s weak in any sense of the word.

An Unstoppable attack is something, but it isn't worth a KPN of 0.5 Compare the Arsonist; the Arsonist at worst does an Astral Unstoppable attack with a KPN of 0.5, but it can usually do better than that by dousing multiple people.

KPN problem would be solved if you let the Prospector plant on Full Moon nights. It can explode on the night it was planted but loses its' Astral status.

[dolphina]

Some parts seem to imply that it would but I can't find a line that actually says that it does. (It seems like it would have to, since 1 kill every 2 nights is far too weak; Like i said, it is not necessarily weak; an unstoppable attack would bypass jail, doctors, and roles with powerful defense (though i don’t think there is one). Therefore, the ability to bypass these things is really powerful in and of itself, so i wouldn’t say it’s weak in any sense of the word.

An Unstoppable attack is something, but it isn't worth a KPN of 0.5 Compare the Arsonist; the Arsonist at worst does an Astral Unstoppable attack with a KPN of 0.5, but it can usually do better than that by dousing multiple people.

KPN problem would be solved if you let the Prospector plant on Full Moon nights. It can explode on the night it was planted but loses its' Astral status.

that would make it... say it with me now...
Too op

anyway, /support
I would suggest that it needs tweaking, but am too lazy to critique rn

[Brilliand]

KPN problem would be solved if you let the Prospector plant on Full Moon nights. It can explode on the night it was planted but loses its' Astral status.

Hmm, a KPN of 1... I think that's just about right. Am I right in thinking that a Bodyguard visiting the same person on a Full Moon night would attack the Prospector AND prevent the kill?

[lemonader666]

Ah yes since werewolf is totally not a shitty and MASSIVELY SWINGY role let's make more roles that use the same method as it
Inb4 durr it's not a clone
Inb4 durr this time it will be different
STOP MAKING NEUTRALS FOR GODS SAKE

[BFFPanda]

Ah yes since werewolf is totally not a shitty and MASSIVELY SWINGY role let's make more roles that use the same method as it
Inb4 durr it's not a clone
Inb4 durr this time it will be different
STOP MAKING NEUTRALS FOR GODS SAKE

now that’s the kind of attitude that’ll get you uninvited to christmas dinner. cheer up old pal, trust the process. it’ll turn out to be a nice role with a few mechanic tweaks.

[lemonader666]

Ah yes since werewolf is totally not a shitty and MASSIVELY SWINGY role let's make more roles that use the same method as it
Inb4 durr it's not a clone
Inb4 durr this time it will be different
STOP MAKING NEUTRALS FOR GODS SAKE

now that’s the kind of attitude that’ll get you uninvited to christmas dinner. cheer up old pal, trust the process. it’ll turn out to be a nice role with a few mechanic tweaks.

I've been here for 3 years
I've dealt with countless faces like you
I know everything you people have to offer
I too was once of you until I learned to grasp balance through negative reinforcement
99.9% of all roles made here are absolute garbage

[Brilliand]

In light of the last few posts, I'd like to take another look at your answers to Oily's questions:

Oily (TG Balancer) > question: what about this role is unique to play?
it is the only neutral killing with a huge risk/reward opportunity. You have a chance of committing suicide when you place dynamite at yourself, which is a very easy thing to do in the early game.

Oily (TG Balancer) > what is the appeal of playing this over the other NKs?
The Prospector is a very intricate role, with so much opportunity to fail, but also so much opportunity to succeed big time. The fun comes in the form of "gambling" on a potential suicide. The huge risk/reward factor of this role can get the adrenaline rushing, and with the small chance of killing someone with your normal ability, it really encourages using your gamble ability.

So, I've made the argument that the suicide mechanic sucks and is not even worth playing in itself, let alone something that makes the role as a whole worth playing. Lemonader alluded to this role being swingy and Werewolf-like, and yeah, the "suicide gamble" is very swingy, and gets all of its upside from being Werewolf-like (except even more swingy). Indeed, you seem to be arguing that the whole point of this role is to be swingy.

I think you need new answers to Oily's questions.

[RapGod2000]

This is a pretty decent idea, I tried doing something like this but it was basically the Arsonist, this is definitely better!

[dolphina]

Ah yes since werewolf is totally not a shitty and MASSIVELY SWINGY role let's make more roles that use the same method as it
Inb4 durr it's not a clone
Inb4 durr this time it will be different
STOP MAKING NEUTRALS FOR GODS SAKE

now that’s the kind of attitude that’ll get you uninvited to christmas dinner. cheer up old pal, trust the process. it’ll turn out to be a nice role with a few mechanic tweaks.

I've been here for 3 years
I've dealt with countless faces like you
I know everything you people have to offer
I too was once of you until I learned to grasp balance through negative reinforcement
99.9% of all roles made here are absolute garbage

ok kfc boy go back to burger king
Anyway seriously though try not to be too hard on new faces, they tend not to really know what they’re doing
Like me when I was young and naive and I made the Sniper and didn’t read the sticky

[Brilliand]

ok kfc boy go back to burger king

I've been wondering... in what sense is he "kfc boy"?

[dolphina]

ok kfc boy go back to burger king

I've been wondering... in what sense is he "kfc boy"?

oh it's just a classic descender insult I've been stealing for a while now

also I like how that word sounds

c l a s s i c

nice mouthfeel