Neutral Killing Role Idea To Balance Out TP/LO Meta (Bomber)

[nicknick88]

Role Name: Bomber
Role Alignment: Neutral (Killing)

Defence: Basic
Attack: Unstoppable

Abilities:
-Place or detonate a bomb in a player's house that will kill that player and that visits him. ((Town protectives will also be killed, and no healing will be applied)

Attributes:
-You may place a single bomb, or detonate a single bomb in a player's house each night.
-Visit a player at night to place a bomb in their house, visit them again to detonate the bomb.
-You may only have 2 bombs placed at any given time before having to detonate one.
-If a player with a bomb placed on them dies, then that bomb will return to your inventory. (I.e, if you had both bombs place, and a player with a bomb on them dies, you receive that bomb back).
-All players that visit the player when a bomb gets detonate in his house will die, regardless of Doctor or Bodyguard visits.

Investigations:

Sheriff - Your target is not suspicious.
Investigator -Your target could be a vigilante, veteran, mafioso, or n
Consig/witch/Coven Leader - Your target smells of gunpowder. Your target must be the bomber!

Kill message: You were blown up by a bomber! You have died!

Win Conditions:

Wins with:
-Bombers
-Witches
-Survivors

Must kill: everything else

Goal: Bomb everyone that would oppose you.

Other info: Placing and detonating a bomb has higher priority than transporting, meaning this role is unaffected by transporters.


What is the point of this role?

TP/LO on jailor meta has proven troublesome for mafia. The existence of this role, a cross between a werewolf and an arsonist, serves to discourage the jailor from claiming day 1, until the neutral killing role is confirmed. The consequence of jailor claiming day 1 in a bomber game would be the bomber placing a bomb in the jailor's house night one, and detonating it n2, which would kill the jailor, all TPs, and the lookouts, killing anywhere from 2-5 townies instantly, depending on how many TP/LOs were on the jailor that night. This would prevent jailor from claiming day 1, until serial killer/werewolf is confirmed day 2 or 3, or until arsonist is confirmed. This role is entirely unaffected by bodyguards and doctors, but still affected by veterans, and unlike arsonist, can only have two people "doused" at a time, and can only "ignite" one person at a time. To compensate for this, Bomber can "ignite", or blow up, more than one person at a time, by blowing up his target and whoever visits him. This along with some retri nerfs (I like the idea of vanilla townies, or even limiting retri revival to picking one player to revive at the start of the game, and then if you die before them, they won't get revived.), and framer buffs, and maybe even a forger rework (cuz rn, forger is just a worse janitor, as people never write wills on people trying to predict their roles, they just empty their will), would really balance out the game more. This is an antidote to jailor claiming day 1, and I have seen excellent ideas on here to nerf TS roles, because retributionist meta is kinda ridiculous. Players would have to work and whisper to find jailor/mayor roles rather than just claiming out loud.

Potential Nerfs/Buffs:
If the bomber blows up the jailor, the bomber will additionally blow up whoever the jailor jailed.
The bomber shows up as BG/GF/Arso/Bomber or even Framer/Jester/Vamp/Bomber
The Bomber can place up to 3 bombs before having to detonate one.

[ARandomDouche]

Having a role solely to get rid of the META is bad design. According to the attributes, if a person dies before a bomb detonates, the bomb disappears. So this role is likely to have no K/P until the entire mafia is dead or town is stupid enough to not lynch every single day.

When balancing a game, it should focus on the higher levels of play. In higher levels of ToS, there will always be a lynch during the day except for MyLo, basically Forum Mafia but faster. Even if mafia doesn't kill, the bomber just plants a bomb, then loses it due to a day lynch. You're a sitting duck.

As for its buffs,
- No, it should not kill the Jailed target, that's bullshit.
- I'm not the guy for investigative results. I think some of your current results are broken because there isn't a sniper role yet, so fix them before you start making others
- 3 bomb plants can't help when you can't even put one down.

/nosupport

[nicknick88]

"Having a role solely to get rid of the META is bad design. According to the attributes, if a person dies before a bomb detonates, the bomb disappears. So this role is likely to have no K/P until the entire mafia is dead or town is stupid enough to not lynch every single day.

When balancing a game, it should focus on the higher levels of play. In higher levels of ToS, there will always be a lynch during the day except for MyLo, basically Forum Mafia but faster. Even if mafia doesn't kill, the bomber just plants a bomb, then loses it due to a day lynch. You're a sitting duck"


How is this much different from arsonist? Or do you think arsonist is also a poorly designed role that should be gotten ridof?

[ARandomDouche]

"Having a role solely to get rid of the META is bad design. According to the attributes, if a person dies before a bomb detonates, the bomb disappears. So this role is likely to have no K/P until the entire mafia is dead or town is stupid enough to not lynch every single day.

When balancing a game, it should focus on the higher levels of play. In higher levels of ToS, there will always be a lynch during the day except for MyLo, basically Forum Mafia but faster. Even if mafia doesn't kill, the bomber just plants a bomb, then loses it due to a day lynch. You're a sitting duck"


How is this much different from arsonist? Or do you think arsonist is also a poorly designed role that should be gotten ridof?

Arsonist is a poor role as well that needs a buff IMO, using the role to defend your role isn't going to work. Plus Arsonist at least has a K/P of 0.5 where your role has none.

[nicknick88]

What does K/P mean? If Arso's target dies before they ignite, Arso's iginition disappears as well, how is the "K/P" different?

[ARandomDouche]

Kill per night. I made the mistake of saying K/P instead of K/N, whoops.

Anyway, the arsonist has a crap K/N. You're role doesn't have one altogether.

Attributes:
If a player dies before you detonate a bomb, that bomb will disappear.

Since there will always be a day lynch, the bomber cannot kill.

[nicknick88]

misunderstanding. My mistake. I meant if a player with a bomb placed on them dies, then that bomb will disappear, not any player in general. I will make that change right now. It's the same as how mafia can kill someone doused by the arsonist. Tbh I also debated making this role an arso buff or a whole new role

[ARandomDouche]

If that's the case, it's just a better werewolf. Upgraded roles make the other role obsolete.

/nosupport

[nicknick88]

Agree to disagree. WW can just see who made themselves a target and visit them, whereas Bomber must predict who will be visited/killed AT LEAST one night before. Also, Bomber can not kill people who visit hom and can be caught by lookout. Agree to disagree tho. Also, similar to arso, bomber is never guaranteed a kill, whereas ww is.