Forger Revamp

[Chrisbenso]

Forger is basically a worse janitor, in most circumstances you're basically just typing random s*** into a will unless you got a consigliere and find a TI role or other ways. As of the most recent update you can filter the chat logs to see only what one person said through the whole game. So what if the forger was able to manipulate this? I don't like how easy it is to get all the info from chat, so with this forger could cause a suspicion in what like a dead townie said. Also it could help your fellow mafia by added info to like your mafioso's lookout claim. I feel this would make forger at least a bit less circumstantial.

[Brilliand]

I don't think it would help much to be able to modify things that have already been shown publicly. Players with good memories would easily be able to detect the change, and players with poor memories... shouldn't be punished so severely for their poor memories, because this isn't meant to be a memory game. The chat log exists precisely to help those with poor memories keep track of things they're supposed to know, but may have forgotten.

[Chrisbenso]

I feel that even if you have a good memory it would still cause you to second guess whether or not the data in chat is right. This is a game of deception, changing the logs around is pretty deceptive even if it hurts the people with bad memories they can keep info in there will/notes.

[Brilliand]

I feel that even if you have a good memory it would still cause you to second guess whether or not the data in chat is right. This is a game of deception, changing the logs around is pretty deceptive even if it hurts the people with bad memories they can keep info in there will/notes.

And then people don't use the chat logs anymore, because the chat logs lie to them. So this whole feature the devs put in the game - the chat logs - is now useless.

The chat log is a convenience feature that keeps a record of things you've seen, so you don't have to put effort into writing them down. Taking away convenience features ("interface screw") is not an appropriate ability for a deception role.

[Chrisbenso]

I feel that the chat logs are too good anyway, Idgaf if someone with bad memory gets harmed more than those with a good one the logs make it much harder to deceive so making them seem at least a bit less reliable would be a good change imo.

[fwogcarf]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

If you think Forger needs a revamp or rework, then you don't know how to play Forger.

Case closed.

[Chrisbenso]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

If you think Forger needs a revamp or rework, then you don't know how to play Forger.

Case closed.

First off, "I've said this before and I'll say it again." cool I really don't care how many times you've said something it doesn't make what you said right.

Secondly, there's no one way to play any role. When I play forger without a consigilier I'm acting as a lesser janitor since you don't really have much info to go off, if there's a consig and we find someone like a investigator I'm placing a random townie as something like vig, vet, maf or one of my maf partners as whatever they're claiming. I just find that in almost all cases janitor > forger and I was giving a solution to make forger a bit better there are probably better solutions than mine however I was giving one that I thought of. It would be unhealthy if just because the way you play forger works means that the role shouldn't be looked at to find ways of making to more balanced.

[CrimsonKatana]

Evils don't need any buffs they're already really good check out some of my posts in strategic discussion where I show if town and evils all play near flawlessly evils still got a really good shot at winning... The problem here is not any role it's skill level so I suggest you get good...

Retri is in fact a problem but that's obvious so keep in mind that I'm ignoring retri in this post cause I've already addressed it many times, and yeah it needs removed/nerfed

[Brilliand]

It's possible to play Forger without a Consig by reading people's behavior and using your own intelligence to determine who is which role

...however that positions the Forger as a role that requires a crazy amount of skill just to play decently. Roles should be balanced in terms of getting similar results from an average level of skill.

(Note that even with a consig, you have to invent a plausible will for that player's role out of thin air, which can be quite difficult in its own right.)

[CrimsonKatana]

The only roles that have something wrong with it is retri and now medium because of the copy and paste night chat thing. I will continue to post this on every single post that wants to buff evils.

[Chrisbenso]

The only roles that have something wrong with it is retri and now medium because of the copy and paste night chat thing. I will continue to post this on every single post that wants to buff evils.

I get it you don't like ret

[Brilliand]

The only roles that have something wrong with it is retri and now medium because of the copy and paste night chat thing. I will continue to post this on every single post that wants to buff evils.

There are so many roles that are out of balance compared with other roles that roll in the same slot, and you think the only roles that have a problem are the ones that are overwhelmingly overpowered?

Except, that isn't even true of the Medium. Even with the copy/paste night chat thing, the Medium still isn't as powerful as the Transporter... which rolls in the same slot.

[fwogcarf]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

If you think Forger needs a revamp or rework, then you don't know how to play Forger.

Case closed.

First off, "I've said this before and I'll say it again." cool I really don't care how many times you've said something it doesn't make what you said right.

Secondly, there's no one way to play any role. When I play forger without a consigilier I'm acting as a lesser janitor since you don't really have much info to go off, if there's a consig and we find someone like a investigator I'm placing a random townie as something like vig, vet, maf or one of my maf partners as whatever they're claiming. I just find that in almost all cases janitor > forger and I was giving a solution to make forger a bit better there are probably better solutions than mine however I was giving one that I thought of. It would be unhealthy if just because the way you play forger works means that the role shouldn't be looked at to find ways of making to more balanced.

Your solution to this "problem" with forger isn't going to change the role itself. It's literally just looking through what one person said, copy pasting something off of them, and manipulating that into a fake will.

That's just using Forger properly, that doesn't change the Forger role itself.

[CrimsonKatana]

Transporter is not OP, the only roles that are currently OP are Retri and Medium. The thing that makes transporter balanced is the fact that it's out in the open and when there is one everyone knows about it, the thing that makes retri OP is the fact it can stay hidden... While both have the ability to save town in a losing position but I would argue that since transporter is openly known it actually wouldn't be a losing position being saved from in the first place.

[fwogcarf]

Transporter is not OP, the only roles that are currently OP are Retri and Medium. The thing that makes transporter balanced is the fact that it's out in the open and when there is one everyone knows about it, the thing that makes retri OP is the fact it can stay hidden...

In what world is Medium a good role

Enlighten me

[CrimsonKatana]

Because it can insta confirm itself same as Mayor now via copy and pasting the entire logs of dead night chat

[fwogcarf]

Because it can insta confirm itself same as Mayor now via copy and pasting the entire logs of dead night chat

Scum can literally claim medium with those notes as well

I don't see your point

[CrimsonKatana]

It's not that hard to tell what's fake and what's real

[fwogcarf]

It's not that hard to tell what's fake and what's real

Given that I haven't seen a GOOD medium, I'm choosing not to believe you until I see some mediums doing this.

Most mediums these days are clueless and don't know how to use their role properly.

[CrimsonKatana]

Well I've seen it first hand that this is what a lot of players are doing. The simple solution is any text that only that person or role can see shouldn't be able to be copied, this might include whispers because I think being able to copy whispers should also fit this category because lying about whispers is one of my favorite evil strategies to whisper and be able to lie about it. One of the biggest ways you can tell that a copy is real is the fact that when someone copies something they'll always post in LIGHTNING FAST like they give no room for any feeling that they may have typed it, or even pre typed it as well because they'll post something first showing they cleared their text box and then start copy and pasting lightning quick, that's basically self confirmation.

[Brilliand]

I think we won't really know how to judge this Medium trick until some ballsy evil pastes the chat log from one of his previous Medium games with only the names changed.

or even pre typed it as well because they'll post something first showing they cleared their text box and then start copy and pasting lightning quick, that's basically self confirmation.

We all have a notes box to save things for copy and pasting later, right?

Okay I use an external text editor because I'm on web, but it's the same thing.

[Chrisbenso]

Your solution to this "problem" with forger isn't going to change the role itself. It's literally just looking through what one person said, copy pasting something off of them, and manipulating that into a fake will.

That's just using Forger properly, that doesn't change the Forger role itself.

I dont want to change the Forger role to the point of being unrecognizable. I just think that the role isn't good in 95/100 situations. Adding an ability to A. Give the role some help with a new ability that I dont believe is over powered and B. Put a bit of suspicion on the chat logs so they dont limit lying as much since the most recent update basically makes it impossible to say like I claimed doc d2 when you didnt

Also even if you dont agree with my idea of how to buff it that's fine but, forger isnt a very great role and a buff would at least make it useful.

[Chrisbenso]

One of the biggest ways you can tell that a copy is real is the fact that when someone copies something they'll always post in LIGHTNING FAST like they give no room for any feeling that they may have typed it, or even pre typed it as well because they'll post something first showing they cleared their text box and then start copy and pasting lightning quick, that's basically self confirmation.

I did that in all any but by whispering people instantly and it was pretty over powered, mediums could've done this before but the copy and paste thing has made it even more powerful. Maybe they could make it so you cant copy dead chat or just remove it all together idc.