Werewolf Change

[BulbasaurRepresent]

I think both Werewolf and Arso should get a buff, and I think I came up with a good idea for werewolf.

The purpose of the werewolf is that he's a normal townie when it's not a full moon (odd numbered nights) but a killer by full moon (even numbered nights)

What if we expanded on that, and on odd numbered nights could investigate someone like a sheriff?

This would let them more easily prove their innocence, while also casting more doubt onto real sheriffs

What do you think?

[Brilliand]

It's been proposed before. Not a bad idea, though it doesn't address the primary problem with the Werewolf, which is slow/unreliable killing.

...and if the Werewolf does get an odd-day townie ability, I don't think it should be the Sheriff ability. It would need to be something much stronger, to be worth the added complexity on a Neutral Killing role.

[CrimsonKatana]

WW and arso don't need buffs

[Brilliand]

WW and arso don't need buffs

...yes they do.

The Werewolf's kill pattern tends to turn into a 0.5 KPN (which is way too low), while the Arsonist has it the worst, being essentially unable to cooperate with any other faction - not Town, not Mafia, not even Witches! (Contrast this with the Serial Killer, who can easily help either the Town or Mafia against the other in the mid-late game, and can be a trustworthy ally for the Witch due to his inability to kill the Witch.)

[CrimsonKatana]

The only change that needs to be made is retri other than that everything else comes down to skill level so if you don't like it I suggest you get good

[Chrisbenso]

The only change that needs to be made is retri other than that everything else comes down to skill level so if you don't like it I suggest you get good

Just suggesting to get good doesn't fix the problem that nk roles are still under powered, werewolf just doesnt have much going for it a basic defense and every even night you get a powerful rampaging attack. Maybe giving it an extra ability wouldnt hurt?

[CrimsonKatana]

Why does losing 2/3 of WW games matter when you only lose 1 elo?

[Brilliand]

Why does losing 2/3 of WW games matter when you only lose 1 elo?

Because some people care about winning, not about their ELO?

A fair game is one where you have a fair chance of winning, not one where people refrain from calling you stupid when you lose.

(Also why are you talking about a 2/3 chance of losing? A 2/3 chance of losing would be really good. The Werewolf loses far more often than that.)

[CrimsonKatana]

How is 1/3 not a fair chance at winning in a game with 3 factions (town, mafia, neutrals)?

[Brilliand]

How is 1/3 not a fair chance at winning in a game with 3 factions (town, mafia, neutrals)?

If the Werewolf's chance of winning was 1/3, I would not be complaining.

The Werewolf's chance of winning is around 5%, last I heard.

[CrimsonKatana]

It's actually around 4/10 if you play it flawlessly that why I say get good

[Brilliand]

It's actually around 4/10 if you play it flawlessly that why I say get good

I have a hard time believing you. Are you talking about your personal record?

[CrimsonKatana]

All you got to do to win as WW or Arso is get into a 6v6 probably on D3 and 1 hope for no retri and 2 have a good enough claim to where people don't push you. After that obviously don't vote anyone and then it should be like a 5v5 next day also making sure you get the optimal kill every time and then just keep it going until it's probably like a 3v2v1 where town sides with you over maf... Like it's that simple...

[Brilliand]

All you got to do to win as WW or Arso is get into a 6v6 probably on D3 and 1 hope for no retri and 2 have a good enough claim to where people don't push you. After that obviously don't vote anyone and then it should be like a 5v5 next day also making sure you get the optimal kill every time and then just keep it going until it's probably like a 3v2v1 where town sides with you over maf... Like it's that simple...

wtf do you mean "get the optimal kill every time"? Werewolf doesn't kill on odd nights (and doesn't always control who he kills), while Arsonist usually doesn't kill at all until the end of the game.

What you describe sounds like a Serial Killer strategy. Werewolf and Arsonist can't pull it off.

[Chrisbenso]

All you got to do to win as WW or Arso is get into a 6v6 probably on D3 and 1 hope for no retri and 2 have a good enough claim to where people don't push you. After that obviously don't vote anyone and then it should be like a 5v5 next day also making sure you get the optimal kill every time and then just keep it going until it's probably like a 3v2v1 where town sides with you over maf... Like it's that simple...

All you gotta do is get yourself in a situation that you have very little control on happening

[CrimsonKatana]

What I'm saying is know the optimal person to rampage at/douse every time you can and if you don't know how to control yourself into that situation then you need to keep practicing anyways it's hard to explain since a lot goes into it. When I talk about the optimal person for example knowing to get 2 mafia doused before they get majority, taking out a townie that could potentially lead town into a comeback and stuff like that...

[vincethejester2]

sk is the only viable nk, the other two are shit

[Brilliand]

What I'm saying is know the optimal person to rampage at/douse every time you can and if you don't know how to control yourself into that situation then you need to keep practicing anyways it's hard to explain since a lot goes into it. When I talk about the optimal person for example knowing to get 2 mafia doused before they get majority, taking out a townie that could potentially lead town into a comeback and stuff like that...

Oh, yeah as Arsonist a huge amount depends on dousing the right people. Arsonist can't control who lives to talk and vote like an SK can, but if you can predict who will survive (always hard), you stand a very good chance of winning as arso.

Werewolf can play the same strategy as an SK and win with it, it's just more difficult because of the even-nights-only thing.

[CrimsonKatana]

Well arsonist is the easiest if you get Jailor dead D3 like you should

[Brilliand]

Well arsonist is the easiest if you get Jailor dead D3 like you should

...and walk right into the Lookout?

[CrimsonKatana]

By the time LO finds you out it should be 6v6 and even then they still may not

[AztexCroxodilePope]

It's actually around 4/10 if you play it flawlessly that why I say get good

shouldn't roles have close to 100% winrate if you play them flawlessly

[CrimsonKatana]

There's not a single role in this game that doesn't have to rely on others

[AztexCroxodilePope]

There's not a single role in this game that doesn't have to rely on others

fair
but the game shouldn't have a "oh everyone on your team played flawlessly but you still have a 60% chance of getting fucked by RNG"
75% is acceptable for flawless NK play imo, but 40% is way too low

this is an inherent problem with the NK flying solo, since if you get screwed over, it's inherently much more harmful than if a Mafia member gets screwed
one of the best buffs to NK is probably removing immune notifs, since that's the largest cause of the NK getting unfairly screwed over

[Algus]

breaking news

nk does not have an equal chance of winning, is not supposed to have an equal chance of winning, and will never have an equal chance of winning

none of them need buffed, play them for fun, if you win great if not, great.


picture this, you just got into the game as mafia or nk

tell yourself right then and there, "i'm not supposed to win this game."

because you aren't supposed to win that game. town of salem is a numbers game and the game starts stacked against you.

you can win that game, but no one is expecting you to win that game; so stop expecting to win that game.