Mayor Nerf

[EgyptFalcon]

Mayor can only reveal if they have voted guilty on 3 non-town members that are successfully lynched. The back and forth of this role would be improved by the existence of a mafia "day janitor" as has been proposed before.

Thoughts?

[Superalex11]

This seems way too far, pushing mayor into near-uselessness. At absolute minimum this would mean the role's core function is inaccessible until d5. A worse case might see a mayor unable to reveal even at d8 or something. Even worse we could consider all-any, where hangs are much rarer than elsewhere, and the mayor might find himself unable to reveal at all.

[EgyptFalcon]

This seems way too far, pushing mayor into near-uselessness. At absolute minimum this would mean the role's core function is inaccessible until d5. A worse case might see a mayor unable to reveal even at d8 or something. Even worse we could consider all-any, where hangs are much rarer than elsewhere, and the mayor might find himself unable to reveal at all.

I agree it's a little extreme, so how about 2 non-town members? Otherwise I think the scenarios you posed require mayor to work to be confirmed which is fine.

[Brilliand]

Even 2 seems too much to me.

The effect of requiring 1 non-town lynch wouldn't be too bad, but I'm not convinced limiting when the Mayor can reveal is the best way to nerf the Mayor.

[EgyptFalcon]

Even 2 seems too much to me.

The effect of requiring 1 non-town lynch wouldn't be too bad, but I'm not convinced limiting when the Mayor can reveal is the best way to nerf the Mayor.

Limiting when the Mayor can reveal is at least the most direct way to let evils conceivably claim it. And doing it indirectly, such as giving a mechanical reason to not reveal can be pushed out by metas and is unreliable long term. For example, there might be justified reasons for a vigilante to stay hidden but town can always bully them into claiming/action. If that action is as easy as pressing a button DURING THE DAY WHILE ON STAND, it's really hard to come up with an indirect incentive that doesn't nerf him to the ground.

[JacksonVirgo]

What about they get an extra vote per evil lynched until they reveal with a maximum of 3.

They lynch one evil, they can reveal to get one extra vote.
You can always confirm yourself as Town, but it also gives a reason not to early.
Also can make it fake-claimable to an extent.

EDIT: Lynching evils after revealing won't add extra votes, as soon as you reveal you're set.

[Brilliand]

There is some question whether the purpose of the Mayor is to be "the innocent child" or "the trial veto". I generally take the position the Mayor is an exception that gets to be 100% confirmable while nothing else should be, but if I set that aside to follow the "don't make it confirmable" trend...

...then the Mayor reveal notification should go. If the entire job of the Mayor is to be extra votes, then there's no need to be obvious about it; make the Mayor have to demonstrate his extra votes to prove that a mayor exists, and furthermore don't reveal to other players that extra votes happened unless those extra votes make a difference. (Mayor innocent/guilty votes don't take effect unless they don't match the non-mayor majority, and mayor voting someone to the stand doesn't take until the voting timer runs out - unless someone else is about to be voted up, in which case it exactly preempts that).

There's some question whether the Mayor even needs an on/off button for his powers when they're that easy to miss.

[JacksonVirgo]

There is some question whether the purpose of the Mayor is to be "the innocent child" or "the trial veto". I generally take the position the Mayor is an exception that gets to be 100% confirmable while nothing else should be, but if I set that aside to follow the "don't make it confirmable" trend...

...then the Mayor reveal notification should go. If the entire job of the Mayor is to be extra votes, then there's no need to be obvious about it; make the Mayor have to demonstrate his extra votes to prove that a mayor exists, and furthermore don't reveal to other players that extra votes happened unless those extra votes make a difference. (Mayor innocent/guilty votes don't take effect unless they don't match the non-mayor majority, and mayor voting someone to the stand doesn't take until the voting timer runs out - unless someone else is about to be voted up, in which case it exactly preempts that).

There's some question whether the Mayor even needs an on/off button for his powers when they're that easy to miss.

That seems abusable though, if someone claims Mayor they can do tests such as voting someone to L-3 and then getting them to vote to see if they get pushed to the stand. It's the same thing but it's more frustrating to test.

[Brilliand]

That seems abusable though, if someone claims Mayor they can do tests such as voting someone to L-3 and then getting them to vote to see if they get pushed to the stand. It's the same thing but it's more frustrating to test.

Yes, much trickier to test, requiring most of the town to cooperate. It also can't be tested while the Mayor is on the stand. I suppose it might not help much at the highest levels of play, but at the mid-levels, there's plenty of room for evils to keep the Mayor-tests inconclusive, and also some room to convince the town to "just guilty" someone who's claiming to be Mayor.

[JacksonVirgo]

That seems abusable though, if someone claims Mayor they can do tests such as voting someone to L-3 and then getting them to vote to see if they get pushed to the stand. It's the same thing but it's more frustrating to test.

Yes, much trickier to test, requiring most of the town to cooperate. It also can't be tested while the Mayor is on the stand. I suppose it might not help much at the highest levels of play, but at the mid-levels, there's plenty of room for evils to keep the Mayor-tests inconclusive, and also some room to convince the town to "just guilty" someone who's claiming to be Mayor.

If the Town Leader alignment gets added however this would make the already weaker role in that alignment even weaker, so if we also nerf Retri and Jailor it should be fine (oh god, not more retri reworks...)

Though Jailor is a hard one to nerf without the entire fanbase going gung ho on BMG's ass so it's a tough position and the TL alignment will probably never happen.

[Brilliand]

If the Town Leader alignment gets added however this would make the already weaker role in that alignment even weaker, so if we also nerf Retri and Jailor it should be fine (oh god, not more retri reworks...)

Though Jailor is a hard one to nerf without the entire fanbase going gung ho on BMG's ass so it's a tough position and the TL alignment will probably never happen.

Creating the Town Leader alignment and buffing the other Town Leader roles to be in line with the Jailor's power would also be a fine plan.