Spy Rework

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Spy Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:16 am

Concept belongs to cmitc1, slightly modified.

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Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Spy Rework

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:22 am

Kirize12 wrote:Concept belongs to cmitc1, slightly modified.

Image

This essentially confirms sheriffs/investigators/lookouts/trackers and any role that has a unique message unless you're talking about roleblock/transport etc messages only. If so, yeah it could work but it's kind of weak?

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST


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Re: Spy Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:37 am

it works the same as current spy just delayed a night

and ya its a bit weak but thats fine, its not any weaker than parity cop and thats the alternative but this one has a unique take and current spy is op. we can also allow it to target two people

what would you think of this:
-you can target one or two people
-if you target one, you will see any feedback the player gets the next night and whether or not they were visited by any non-town
-if you target two, you will only see if they were visited by any non-town
and yada yada yada everything else is the same

its also a great scumclaim because its delayed a night. might make it permaframed
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Spy Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:22 pm

If an idea doesn't get traction, it's probably bad, but no one else has a better spy rework.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Spy Rework

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:28 pm

Kirize12 wrote:it works the same as current spy just delayed a night

and ya its a bit weak but thats fine, its not any weaker than parity cop and thats the alternative but this one has a unique take and current spy is op. we can also allow it to target two people

what would you think of this:
-you can target one or two people
-if you target one, you will see any feedback the player gets the next night and whether or not they were visited by any non-town
-if you target two, you will only see if they were visited by any non-town
and yada yada yada everything else is the same

its also a great scumclaim because its delayed a night. might make it permaframed

Missed this tbf, sorry. Actually I really like this compared to the current Spy, it's weak by itself but it's not too weak in combination with other Town roles.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST


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Re: Spy Rework

Postby Brilliand » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:14 pm

Kirize12 wrote:If an idea doesn't get traction, it's probably bad, but no one else has a better spy rework.


I would prefer my Role Tracker idea to this.

While this role would be quite weak in a generally chaotic town, it still manages to support the Jailor meta; that seems like a bad thing to me.
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Re: Spy Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:33 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:If an idea doesn't get traction, it's probably bad, but no one else has a better spy rework.


I would prefer my Role Tracker idea to this.

While this role would be quite weak in a generally chaotic town, it still manages to support the Jailor meta; that seems like a bad thing to me.

It wouldn't do so nearly as effectively with a delayed night. Your idea is good but its' skill floor is significantly higher than other Town Investigatives (albeit lower than the current Spy), which also seems like a bad idea to me.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Spy Rework

Postby cmitc1 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:59 pm

Hi kirize =) its been a while.

I honestly think the concept of seeing scum visits should just be forgotten, but this approach is more healthy then the current spy.
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Re: Spy Rework

Postby Kirize12 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:54 pm

A pro of this spy rework is that it gets rid of the ability for spy to find NK n1, even if both they and the mafia target them.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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