Mafia Deception: Illusionist

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Mafia Deception: Illusionist

Postby SparkingJayYT » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:27 am

Role Name: Illusionist
Class: Mafia Deception
Alignment: Mafia
Ability: Visit a player at night, if the target is killed at night their role will reveal to be Mafioso. If the target is lynched during the day then they will also reveal to be Mafioso.

Results:
Sheriff: Your target is suspicious.
Investigator: Framer, Vampire, Jester, Hex Master or Illusionist.
Witch/Consigliere: Your target makes everything not what it seems. They must be an Illusionist.

Night Messages:
- You have decided to place an illusion on _____ tonight.

F.A.Q:
Why is this role needed?
To help combat the strategy of killing the Mafioso and jailing the GF for the rest of the game (or vice versa) which puts the Mafia at a terrible disadvantage which 99 times out of 100 results in a Mafia loss due to them not being able to kill and gives Town Investigatives a lot more time to find the rest of the evils. Besides, I feel like this is a fun role which will help enhance the experience for both Mafia and Town.
Does the Illusion effect stay on the target for the rest of the game?
No, the effect will only be in play for the night which you placed an illusion on the target and the following day phase. Example: Illusion placed on X N1, the effect will only work on X for N1 and D2.
Why Mafioso in particular?
Besides stopping the strategy of killing Mafioso/GF and jailing the other, Mafioso is a very common role within many rolelists especially since all non-Mafioso/GF roles convert into the Mafioso if there is no Mafioso/GF left alive to carry out the kills.
What happens if an Illusionist is witched/their target was transported into another Mafia Member?
The effect will still go through and that Mafia Member will show to be Mafioso.

If there are any further questions regarding the role then feel free to ask / If you have any advice on how to balance this role (if you believe it is overpowered) then please share your thoughts. :)

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Re: Mafia Deception: Illusionist

Postby NefariousDjinn » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:23 pm

This is essentially just the Disguiser that works in the inverse. The only benefit to this is the ability to hide the role list that this provides so that town won't be able to use the role list as effectively. Which I support however....

This doesn't work to the purpose you want it to. It wouldn't prevent the strategy of rbing the sole mafia killing once mafioso or gf is eliminated.
There's no way to effectively use the role without the mafia personally killing the Illusionist target which would immediately reveal them in a game without a confirmed transporter or witch.
Because wills are a thing this role is entirely useless because once its confirmed to be in game then town will just use the wills to confirm roles. Because every illusioned player appears as Mafioso there's no deception in wills.

I don't see anyway this would be a workable viable role. Usually I'd offer some tweaks that would improve the roles viability.. but I have none.
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Re: Mafia Deception: Illusionist

Postby SparkingJayYT » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:23 pm

NefariousDjinn wrote:This is essentially just the Disguiser that works in the inverse. The only benefit to this is the ability to hide the role list that this provides so that town won't be able to use the role list as effectively. Which I support however....

This doesn't work to the purpose you want it to. It wouldn't prevent the strategy of rbing the sole mafia killing once mafioso or gf is eliminated.
There's no way to effectively use the role without the mafia personally killing the Illusionist target which would immediately reveal them in a game without a confirmed transporter or witch.
Because wills are a thing this role is entirely useless because once its confirmed to be in game then town will just use the wills to confirm roles. Because every illusioned player appears as Mafioso there's no deception in wills.

I don't see anyway this would be a workable viable role. Usually I'd offer some tweaks that would improve the roles viability.. but I have none.

There were actually a couple of tweaks I thought of but wanted to hear from others such as:
- Getting to choose which role the target will reveal as (Only Mafia aligned roles)

The role itself could be used for fake-bussing where you target a player (so they appear as Mafioso) and give a result on them.

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Re: Mafia Deception: Illusionist

Postby NefariousDjinn » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:44 pm

SparkingJayYT wrote:
NefariousDjinn wrote:This is essentially just the Disguiser that works in the inverse. The only benefit to this is the ability to hide the role list that this provides so that town won't be able to use the role list as effectively. Which I support however....

This doesn't work to the purpose you want it to. It wouldn't prevent the strategy of rbing the sole mafia killing once mafioso or gf is eliminated.
There's no way to effectively use the role without the mafia personally killing the Illusionist target which would immediately reveal them in a game without a confirmed transporter or witch.
Because wills are a thing this role is entirely useless because once its confirmed to be in game then town will just use the wills to confirm roles. Because every illusioned player appears as Mafioso there's no deception in wills.

I don't see anyway this would be a workable viable role. Usually I'd offer some tweaks that would improve the roles viability.. but I have none.

There were actually a couple of tweaks I thought of but wanted to hear from others such as:
- Getting to choose which role the target will reveal as (Only Mafia aligned roles)

The role itself could be used for fake-bussing where you target a player (so they appear as Mafioso) and give a result on them.


To be fair I think this concept is just flawed in its current form. It is essentially just a different take on the disguiser. In point of fact, in the Fixing Disguiser thread on this forum I posted a very similar concept as an alternative to the current disguiser.

To address the flaws immediately.

Point 1. I do not understand the function of this role. If it is meant to give the mafioso cover so they're harder to find then this doesn't really serve the function as it would suffer the inherent flaws of the framer in that it is utterly dependent of a TI role to be effective. And while framer works with both a sheriff or investigator this only works with an investigator.

Point 2. If this is meant to disguise the mafioso's death then it is highly flawed as wills would cross confirm true roles.

Point 3. It doesn't fix the problem you outlined. It just changes the meta to targeting and lynching the gf before the mafioso rather then the inverse. and its easy enough to cross confirm if a mafioso became GF.
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