Unique Neutral Roles

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:58 pm

This is going to be a compilation of a bunch of what I think to be great, unique Neutral roles. If you want another Neutral role to be added here let me know and I would love feedback if you have the time :D . Zombie and Leprechaun are somewhat older suggestions of mine but Clone is a newbie.

Clone (Neutral Chaos)
Spoiler:
Clone
Neutral Chaos

Abilities: Target somebody during the night, all their visitors will be redirected to you.
Attributes:
  • Your target is <x>
  • You will appear as your target to an Investigator.
  • If your target visits you, you both will be dealt an Unstoppable attack.
  • If you target the targets of a role such as Witch or Transporter, you will just replace that specific slot of the target.
  • Your targets will be notified of the redirection.
  • You have Basic defense
Goal: Get your original to visit you no matter what


Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)
Spoiler:
Leprechaun
Neutral Benign

Ability: Anyone who has your lucky clover wins!
Attributes:
  • You start with your lucky clover
  • If anybody visits a player with the lucky clover, it will be stolen.
  • Anyone with the lucky clover wins with anybody, acts like a Survivor.
  • If the Leprechaun doesn't have its clover, it can visit to steal it back.
  • The Leprechaun can commute (hide) three times during the game if it has it's lucky clover, disallowing anyone from visiting and stealing the clover.
Goal: Have your lucky clover at the end of the game!


Zombie (Neutral Chaos)
Spoiler:
Zombie
Neutral Chaos

Ability: Infect a player during the day. When dead you can redirect an infected player to infect another player.
Attributes:
  • Infected players die after three days of being infected and when they die they will show to town as "Rotted" but their Last Will is still revealed to Town.
  • Infected players can infect other players if a few occurrences happen. Anyone who kills an infected player will become infected (jailor, vet, mafia etc), infected players will infect all the people they visit.
  • Infected players will be notified that they're infected.
  • Infected players aren't converted, they still align with the alignment they did before getting infected.
  • Bodyguards will see an infected player as a killing role and will protect and kill them (and die)
Goal: Have everybody infected by the end of the game.


Conquerer (Neutral Chaos) [brilliand's role]
Spoiler:
Conquerer
Neutral Chaos

Ability: Each night, select two targets; one to kill, one to heal.
Attributes:
  • They must use both abilities in the same night, or nothing will happen.
  • The heal is identical to the Doctor's heal; however, they cannot heal themselves.
  • If Conquerer is redirected, the attack will be redirected not the heal.
Goal: Reduce every other faction to a single member. At least two other factions must survive.

Win Conditions
  • All factions must never be able to win with each other for them to count towards the goal.
  • The game ends in a Conquerer win immediately upon hitting the goal, all other factions lose.
  • If there is only one other faction alive, the Conquerer instantly loses.
  • The Conquerer can win with a witch if there is exactly one town and no other enemy faction that the witch can side with. There cannot be multiple witches if the Conquerer wishes to win this way.


Apocalypse Survivor (Neutral Chaos) [brilliand's role]
Spoiler:
Apocalypse Survivor
Neutral Chaos

Abilities:
  • During the day, you can choose to hide in your bunker. While in your bunker, you have Powerful defense, and visits to you fail. You can't do this two nights in a row.
  • While in your bunker, you may choose one other person to invite into your bunker. The player you invite in will be able to visit you, ignoring your bunker. If they choose to do so, they will receive Powerful defense for the night.

Special Attributes:
Roleblock Immunity
Control Immunity

Attributes:
  • On the first night of the game, you will be struck by lightning, dealing a Powerful attack.
  • You will automatically use your bunker on the first night, even if you didn't choose it.
  • Each night thereafter, the lightning counts 4 players down from its previous target, and strikes that person next. If it reaches the last player, it loops around from the top.
  • You will be informed each night who was struck by the bolt of lightning that you brought to the game.
  • You will always be a valid target for your lightning bolt, even if you are dead. Other players are only valid targets if they are alive.
  • Lightning cannot strike the same player two nights in a row. If the lighting would strike a player that was targeted by lightning the previous night, it simply doesn't strike that night.
  • The draw timer does not start, and the game does not end, until the apocalypse is over.
  • If 3 nights pass with no deaths, the town will see the message "You have successfully weathered the apocalypse", and the lightning will stop.
  • If the lightning strikes the Apocalypse Survivor, killing him, or if the lightning strikes the grave of a dead Apocalypse Survivor, the town will see the message "The lightning has returned to its source.", and the lightning will stop. This is guaranteed to happen if all players are dead.

Goal: Survive to the end of the game.
Last edited by JacksonVirgo on Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:27 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby SparkingJayYT » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:11 am

Clone:
What if your target cannot visit eg. Retributionist, Mayor, Jailor, Medium etc. and what would happen if your target dies?

Leprechaun:
What would happen if the person with the lucky clover gets lynched?

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:24 am

SparkingJayYT wrote:Clone:
What if your target cannot visit eg. Retributionist, Mayor, Jailor, Medium etc. and what would happen if your target dies?

Leprechaun:
What would happen if the person with the lucky clover gets lynched?

Regarding the Clone, non-visiting roles cannot be given as a target. And I didn't think about what happens when the target dies, so I am not quite sure outside of you losing/replacing your target.

Regarding the Leprechaun, ideally whoever has the clover can claim that they have the clover and thus can win with anyone so lynching them would not be great. But the clover can return to the Leprechaun once if the holder dies with no visitors/lynched, but if it happens again the clover's gone forever and the Leprechaun loses by default.

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby SparkingJayYT » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:20 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:Regarding the Clone, non-visiting roles cannot be given as a target. And I didn't think about what happens when the target dies, so I am not quite sure outside of you losing/replacing your target.

Maybe they could turn into Jester or Survivor.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Regarding the Leprechaun, ideally whoever has the clover can claim that they have the clover and thus can win with anyone so lynching them would not be great.

Though anyone can fakeclaim to have the clover, so actually people with the clover could end up still getting lynched.

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:24 am

SparkingJayYT wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:Regarding the Clone, non-visiting roles cannot be given as a target. And I didn't think about what happens when the target dies, so I am not quite sure outside of you losing/replacing your target.

Maybe they could turn into Jester or Survivor.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Regarding the Leprechaun, ideally whoever has the clover can claim that they have the clover and thus can win with anyone so lynching them would not be great.

Though anyone can fakeclaim to have the clover, so actually people with the clover could end up still getting lynched.


Clone: That actually would work, I feel Survivor would fit better
Leprechaun: True so I think that if a player dies by lynch or with no visitors, it should return to the Leprechaun

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Brilliand » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:43 pm

Do the roles I put in my signature qualify for inclusion in this? (Conqueror and Apocalypse Survivor)

I recall liking the Leprechaun.

Clone seems like it might not be good for the game, since it just messes with people a bit and then dies, taking a random person with it if it wins. But it could add more chaos to All Any, and that's not a bad thing. (It is a strong indicator for marking it Neutral Chaos, though.)

As for Zombie, wouldn't it be a bit hard for the game to end without everyone being infected? The infection spreads very efficiently.
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:49 pm

Brilliand wrote:Do the roles I put in my signature qualify for inclusion in this? (Conqueror and Apocalypse Survivor)

I recall liking the Leprechaun.

Clone seems like it might not be good for the game, since it just messes with people a bit and then dies, taking a random person with it if it wins. But it could add more chaos to All Any, and that's not a bad thing. (It is a strong indicator for marking it Neutral Chaos, though.)

As for Zombie, wouldn't it be a bit hard for the game to end without everyone being infected? The infection spreads very efficiently.

Yeah, I will add them now if you want that :D

Regarding the Clone. Neutral Chaos does seem to fit better now that you wrote it's whole thing in a sentence like that lol.

Hmm, yeah it would be. Do you think I should change it up a bit to make it harder and more strategic to be able to infect everyone?

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:07 pm

@brilliand. Added your roles, if I screwed it up somehow let me know :D

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Brilliand » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:@brilliand. Added your roles, if I screwed it up somehow let me know :D


Awesome.

JacksonVirgo wrote:As for Zombie, wouldn't it be a bit hard for the game to end without everyone being infected? The infection spreads very efficiently.


Hmm, yeah it would be. Do you think I should change it up a bit to make it harder and more strategic to be able to infect everyone?[/quote]

It needs something to make it harder. I think it's nicely balanced up until it dies - it's just the "keeps functioning while dead" part that is overpowered. (But taking away the dead interaction kinda sucks when the name is "Zombie".)
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:49 pm

Brilliand wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:@brilliand. Added your roles, if I screwed it up somehow let me know :D


Awesome.

JacksonVirgo wrote:Hmm, yeah it would be. Do you think I should change it up a bit to make it harder and more strategic to be able to infect everyone?


It needs something to make it harder. I think it's nicely balanced up until it dies - it's just the "keeps functioning while dead" part that is overpowered. (But taking away the dead interaction kinda sucks when the name is "Zombie".)


What if the Zombie can't redirect when dead but instead can select if a specific infected player dies and they 'rampage' their infection, infecting everyone that visits the infected's target as well? That might be a tad swingy though

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:33 pm

I really don't get the point of any of these roles, they are just bad.

Clone is NK and transporter combined which is a really bad combo.

I don't see anything the Leprechaun brings to the table, nor any kind of strategy it can use that would make it win.

Zombie reminds me of the Necromancer role combined with Vampire so no.

Conqueror's ability makes no sense for their own name not to mention it's NK plus doctor but dumber.

Apocalypse Survivor is just bad because it is a neutral bodyguard that can defend itself as many times as it wants. Not to mention the idiotic lightning mechanic. We don't need a rogue killing force that can't be stopped by killing them, either at night or by lynching. It would make the game waay more RNG based and it's too RNG based as it is. Plus making the player use their bunker the first night is a big no no, there is no reason to force them to and it hitting a random player with an unstoppable attack is just retarded. It hurts everyone and makes people hate this version of the survivor. Some may just leave the game as soon as they realize it's in the game. ALSO, the timer wouldn't be an issue because most likekly, everyone would already be dead by the time it would run out due to this stupid mechanic.
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:56 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:I really don't get the point of any of these roles, they are just bad.

Clone is NK and transporter combined which is a really bad combo.

I don't see anything the Leprechaun brings to the table, nor any kind of strategy it can use that would make it win.

Zombie reminds me of the Necromancer role combined with Vampire so no.

Conqueror's ability makes no sense for their own name not to mention it's NK plus doctor but dumber.

Apocalypse Survivor is just bad because it is a neutral bodyguard that can defend itself as many times as it wants. Not to mention the idiotic lightning mechanic. We don't need a rogue killing force that can't be stopped by killing them, either at night or by lynching. It would make the game waay more RNG based and it's too RNG based as it is. Plus making the player use their bunker the first night is a big no no, there is no reason to force them to and it hitting a random player with an unstoppable attack is just retarded. It hurts everyone and makes people hate this version of the survivor. Some may just leave the game as soon as they realize it's in the game. ALSO, the timer wouldn't be an issue because most likekly, everyone would already be dead by the time it would run out due to this stupid mechanic.


1. Disagree but you can have your opinion
2. It's a unique Neutral role that is fun to play as, I've played a version of it in my irl mafia games and it's quite fun to play as and I reckon it would in ToS as well.
3. It's not really but sure
4. Sure it's an NK+Doc but it's goal makes it unique to play compared to other roles. Do you want SK rehashes constantly? If so, that's broken
5. I personally would love playing as that role

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Brilliand » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:04 am

Boredfan1 wrote:Clone is NK and transporter combined which is a really bad combo.
Zombie reminds me of the Necromancer role combined with Vampire so no.
Apocalypse Survivor is just bad because it is a neutral bodyguard that can defend itself as many times as it wants.


These comparisons are really loose. I don't think any of them are justified.

Boredfan1 wrote:Not to mention the idiotic lightning mechanic. We don't need a rogue killing force that can't be stopped by killing them, either at night or by lynching. It would make the game waay more RNG based and it's too RNG based as it is. Plus making the player use their bunker the first night is a big no no, there is no reason to force them to and it hitting a random player with an unstoppable attack is just retarded. It hurts everyone and makes people hate this version of the survivor. Some may just leave the game as soon as they realize it's in the game. ALSO, the timer wouldn't be an issue because most likekly, everyone would already be dead by the time it would run out due to this stupid mechanic.


The lightning mechanic has no RNG at all. It's completely predictable. The first night thing is a mercy mechanic, because the lightning striking the Apocalypse Survivor night 1 is guaranteed.

I don't think you looked very closely at any of these roles before deciding to criticize them.
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:24 am

Dude, I thoroughly read it. It makes the game more RNG based because the RNG decides whether Apocalypse survivor is in the game or not and that role just fucks everyone over. It's a HORRIBLE role.
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:25 am

Boredfan1 wrote:Dude, I thoroughly read it. It makes the game more RNG based because the RNG decides whether Apocalypse survivor is in the game or not and that role just fucks everyone over. It's a HORRIBLE role.


Brilliand wrote:It would probably have to be its own chaos gamemode; it's too game-changing even for All Any.


No, you really didn't

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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:27 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:Dude, I thoroughly read it. It makes the game more RNG based because the RNG decides whether Apocalypse survivor is in the game or not and that role just fucks everyone over. It's a HORRIBLE role.


Brilliand wrote:It would probably have to be its own chaos gamemode; it's too game-changing even for All Any.


No, you really didn't


Your opinion, not fact and the opinion of someone who suggested quite shitty roles. Seriously, I addressed most if not everything pretty damn thoroughly, you guys misread what I said. Also, I didn't mean to put the randomly in there with the lightning but the rest of my post stands.
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Brilliand » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:36 am

Boredfan1 wrote:It makes the game more RNG based because the RNG decides whether Apocalypse survivor is in the game or not and that role just fucks everyone over.


That's not what you said before, and it's a really thin argument because it applies to a great many roles already in the game (in the context of All Any).

Roles that use RNG are bad. Roles that are affected by the random rolelist generator and the assignment of roles to players are OK.

Boredfan1 wrote:Also, I didn't mean to put the randomly in there with the lightning but the rest of my post stands.


Did you mean to put the "unstoppable" when talking about the Lightning Bolt's Powerful attack?
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:10 pm

It's not a thin argument, if you get an Apocalypse Survivor in your game, the game sucks because you have absolutely no control over that element whereas you can over most if not all other elements so the RNG becomes more of an element of the game. So it's a bad role. And no, it says powerful defense on the opening post.
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Brilliand » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:13 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:It's not a thin argument, if you get an Apocalypse Survivor in your game, the game sucks because you have absolutely no control over that element whereas you can over most if not all other elements so the RNG becomes more of an element of the game. So it's a bad role.


But you don't have absolutely no control over the lightning storm. You know exactly where it is going to strike (several turns in advance), and you can either block the strike as a Doctor or Jailor (or Apocalypse Survivor half the time), or redirect the strike by lynching specific people (the people between the lightning's last target and its next target). This is considerably less threatening than a Serial Killer would be. Granted, you can stop the SK with a single lynch while the lightning requires several days of coordination (whether you plan to weather the storm or send it home to the Apocalypse Survivor's grave), but I'd say overall the lightning is an easier enemy to defeat.

Boredfan1 wrote:And no, it says powerful defense on the opening post.


I mean this:

Boredfan1 wrote:it hitting a random player with an unstoppable attack is just retarded
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:03 am

Brilliand wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:It's not a thin argument, if you get an Apocalypse Survivor in your game, the game sucks because you have absolutely no control over that element whereas you can over most if not all other elements so the RNG becomes more of an element of the game. So it's a bad role.


But you don't have absolutely no control over the lightning storm. You know exactly where it is going to strike (several turns in advance), and you can either block the strike as a Doctor or Jailor (or Apocalypse Survivor half the time), or redirect the strike by lynching specific people (the people between the lightning's last target and its next target). This is considerably less threatening than a Serial Killer would be. Granted, you can stop the SK with a single lynch while the lightning requires several days of coordination (whether you plan to weather the storm or send it home to the Apocalypse Survivor's grave), but I'd say overall the lightning is an easier enemy to defeat.


Clearly, you didn't properly read what I said. It sucks for EVERYONE. You don't want an uncontrollable element in a game of skill. Ya, you can block it as a doctor or a jailor or apocalypse survivor but frankly, you will still have entire factions destroyed by nothing that is their own fault and if this were added to the mafia mode, it would make things truly impossible for anyone but town who would still have a hard time. It is so easily exposable that it just makes doctor and jailor too hard because you never know what the right choice is until the day is over. And even then, it may not hold true for the future matches you are in. And no, since it will continue until the game is over, you cannot defeat it.

Brilliand wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:And no, it says powerful defense on the opening post.


I mean this:

Boredfan1 wrote:it hitting a random player with an unstoppable attack is just retarded
[/quote]

If you'd actually read, I told you, it was a typo.....
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Brilliand » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:04 am

@JacksonVirgo, would you add these bits to the Apocalypse Survivor text? It looks like the details on how the lightning ends were buried in the "Notifications" section.

Brilliand wrote:
  • If 3 nights pass with no deaths, the town will see the message "You have successfully weathered the apocalypse", and the lightning will stop.
  • If the lightning strikes the Apocalypse Survivor, killing him, or if the lightning strikes the grave of a dead Apocalypse Survivor, the town will see the message "The lightning has returned to its source.", and the lightning will stop. This is guaranteed to happen if all players are dead.
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:50 am

And why wouldn't everyone just lynch the Apocalypse Survivor instead of dealing with the stupid lightning?
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Re: Unique Neutral Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:26 am

Brilliand wrote:@JacksonVirgo, would you add these bits to the Apocalypse Survivor text? It looks like the details on how the lightning ends were buried in the "Notifications" section.

Brilliand wrote:
  • If 3 nights pass with no deaths, the town will see the message "You have successfully weathered the apocalypse", and the lightning will stop.
  • If the lightning strikes the Apocalypse Survivor, killing him, or if the lightning strikes the grave of a dead Apocalypse Survivor, the town will see the message "The lightning has returned to its source.", and the lightning will stop. This is guaranteed to happen if all players are dead.


Oh yeah must have missed those

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