Werewolf (Neutral Killing)

[orangeandblack5]

So your fear is effectively that, because you may not be able to tell an Arsonist game from a Werewolf game on Day 2, the Jailor may not execute an evil that night on the basis that they don't know for sure that failure to do so will result in their loss?

Exactly yes. Keep in mind that this brings a lot of toxicity to the game.

Alright good glad we're on the same page

Here's why I'm not particularly concerned about that

1: If Jailor jailed scum they're confident enough to execute D2, they ought to do it anyways. If they jailed Town, it's already gg in these blitz scenarios. I think the meta will change to prioritize going for good exe jails D2 and that'll probably help cover for this.

2: All things considered, these D3 blitz scum wins are in need of fixing in general, and I'd rather do that then hold out on massively improving WW because these specific scenarios make it a bit better than SK

3: It's a trade-off that's honestly worth it, in my opinion

[BasicFourLife]

Its not supposed to be too much different

[kosmo16]

So your fear is effectively that, because you may not be able to tell an Arsonist game from a Werewolf game on Day 2, the Jailor may not execute an evil that night on the basis that they don't know for sure that failure to do so will result in their loss?

Exactly yes. Keep in mind that this brings a lot of toxicity to the game.

Alright good glad we're on the same page

Here's why I'm not particularly concerned about that

1: If Jailor jailed scum they're confident enough to execute D2, they ought to do it anyways. If they jailed Town, it's already gg in these blitz scenarios. I think the meta will change to prioritize going for good exe jails D2 and that'll probably help cover for this.

2: All things considered, these D3 blitz scum wins are in need of fixing in general, and I'd rather do that then hold out on massively improving WW because these specific scenarios make it a bit better than SK

3: It's a trade-off that's honestly worth it, in my opinion

1. If they are not confident enough to execute they will do it anyway if they MUST to do it. With this WW Jailor is not aware of that, so will just let a jailed person go.
2. If you fix blitz scenarios then it is OK change, otherwise it is not.
3. Higher winratio of WW in exchange of higher toxicity in games. Nope. It's not worth.

[orangeandblack5]

1: Alternatively, I suspect it's more likely they'd execute in Arsonist games rather than let a target go in Werewolf games.

2: This is part of a string of suggestions that would ultimately leave to those being gone (also thanks for meeting me on my chosen terminology I guess lol)

3: I'm not convinced the increase in toxicity would be as bad as you seem to expect

Also I will note that this is also the exact same as current WW in any game where it hits two town N2, with the key difference being it's more consistent and therefore can be changed if necessary with reliable changes in outcome. This is undoubtedly a step forward from current WW in all departments, and although that may be a low bar it would give us more control over all aspects of how WW affects a game it is in.

[kosmo16]

1: Alternatively, I suspect it's more likely they'd execute in Arsonist games rather than let a target go in Werewolf games.

2: This is part of a string of suggestions that would ultimately leave to those being gone (also thanks for meeting me on my chosen terminology I guess lol)

3: I'm not convinced the increase in toxicity would be as bad as you seem to expect

Also I will note that this is also the exact same as current WW in any game where it hits two town N2, with the key difference being it's more consistent and therefore can be changed if necessary with reliable changes in outcome. This is undoubtedly a step forward from current WW in all departments, and although that may be a low bar it would give us more control over all aspects of how WW affects a game it is in.

I haven't seen many games where WW killed 2 people N2 and Town won.

I think it is equal right now as you don't know n2 if it is Arso or WW.

[orangeandblack5]

And that will just lead to people assuming it's a WW game and acting accordingly tbh

[kosmo16]

And that will just lead to people assuming it's a WW game and acting accordingly tbh

Games will become more volatile, which will make atmosphere in games very tense. All pressure would be on Jailor to perform.

[orangeandblack5]

That's not really any different, so I maintain the improvements in every other area are worth keeping this effectively the same while other fixes go towards scum blitz wins

[kosmo16]

I'm honestly not convinced that WW is the worst killer. I think Arsonist has lower win ratio.

[orangeandblack5]

I don't see how that affects the benefits of this change, although I would argue that WW is worse that Arsonist in design even if no longer in power

[kosmo16]

I don't see how that affects the benefits of this change, although I would argue that WW is worse that Arsonist in design even if no longer in power

Just saying. It is just my experience with NK I won less ranked games with Arso than WW. Like 33% less.

OK, how about rampage, now people won't be that scared to visit.

[orangeandblack5]

OK, how about rampage, now people won't be that scared to visit.

I'm 100% okay with that

Killing visitors was always very swingy and also pretty gimmicky

Making people afraid to do their jobs is definitely not something I see as a positive for the game

[kosmo16]

Wth, I posted this 2 months ago... What just happened?

[Brilliand]

Wth, I posted this 2 months ago... What just happened?

Probably it was bumped.

There's a "bump" button that changes the date of the most recent post to the current date (no matter whose post it is), as a trick to move the thread to the top of the list.