Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

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Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:39 am

Role Name: Equivocator

Role Alignment: Mafia Deception

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Abilities: Select a target during the day, if they get lynched their role and will won't be shown to Town.

Attributes:
  • If there are no kill-capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.
  • You can talk with the other Mafia at night.
  • During the day, at any time you can select any player and if they're lynched that day their role and will won't be shown to town.
  • You can use this three times.

Goal: Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Notifications:
  • You've decided to hide x's identity.
  • You successfully hid x's role, their role was y.

Additional Info:
I tired essentially making a day time Janitor, having information that would possibly destroy Mafia being hidden from Town can be powerful. For example, since you can hide both fellow mafia and other players roles from town you can do many things. 1. you can equivocate your fellow Mafia that's being pushed so that Town doesn't actually know if they lynched the real TP or the fake and it can go the other way around as well. It's essentially a way for Mafia to fight back against Town's greatest asset, their votes as well as countering the VFR meta somewhat.

Let me know your thoughts.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby ashmer06 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:46 am

I like it but I’m no pro so I’m sorry that I can’t give any good criticism
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby xXbigboi69Xx » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:01 pm

It might be better if you change it to a day ability that can only be used during the discussion phase, and the Equivocator's choice gets locked in as soon as the voting phase begins. As is I think it's a bit too random in terms of trying to accurately predict who might get lynched the night before. If they can select their target while people are talking they still have a chance to waste a charge, but they can also be rewarded for predicting the flow of popular opinion.

A less powerful option would be that the Equivocator can select himself at night 3x per game, which then allows him to select someone during discussion the following day as described above.
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby utkureyis16 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:17 pm

Thinking this as an deception role still its too powerfull,2 reasons

first:Equ and Janitor Will be TOO op that you can hide 2/3 town roles and will (i know who gets lynched cant be comfirmed town)
Second:This role is a day role as you say so it counters Spy/Lookout/Escort directly Retributions in other way

My opinion is this role can be usable only for one time,so you can think it twice when you will use your ability,neither TI or TP for plays,or
if you get roleblocked ,somehow you still cant manage do anything next day so at least escort can do their work done
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:44 pm

This was a heckin' bump if I ever seen one.

xXbigboi69Xx wrote:It might be better if you change it to a day ability that can only be used during the discussion phase, and the Equivocator's choice gets locked in as soon as the voting phase begins. As is I think it's a bit too random in terms of trying to accurately predict who might get lynched the night before. If they can select their target while people are talking they still have a chance to waste a charge, but they can also be rewarded for predicting the flow of popular opinion.

A less powerful option would be that the Equivocator can select himself at night 3x per game, which then allows him to select someone during discussion the following day as described above.

It already is a day action?

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby Brilliand » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:01 pm

Looks like I missed this the first time around.

Letting the Equivocator use his ability during the Judgement phase is a little too easy, imo. Making his ability a night ability with unlimited uses would make skill more relevant (and remove his roleblock/control/transport immunity, which I think is unnecessary), but xXbigboi69Xx may be right that that's too hard for most Town of Salem players.

I definitely like the idea of a day-Janitor, though.
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby ABadWord » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:38 pm

Very good idea. VFR is a bit to safe.

A Janitor and Equiv combo might feel cheap to go against is the only issue I could see for this role. Other then that I really can't find fault.

Sick job dude.
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby cob709 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:31 am

Ooooo, a day time janitor.
A mafia role that has a day ability instead of night ability, I like it!
Though, I feel like this would have to replace the Janitor, as the 2 roles would essentially do the same thing, just at different times.
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby Brilliand » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:15 am

cob709 wrote:Though, I feel like this would have to replace the Janitor, as the 2 roles would essentially do the same thing, just at different times.


Those "different times" have no overlap whatsoever, so having this role replace the Janitor would not make sense.
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby xXbigboi69Xx » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:48 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:This was a heckin' bump if I ever seen one.

xXbigboi69Xx wrote:It might be better if you change it to a day ability that can only be used during the discussion phase, and the Equivocator's choice gets locked in as soon as the voting phase begins. As is I think it's a bit too random in terms of trying to accurately predict who might get lynched the night before. If they can select their target while people are talking they still have a chance to waste a charge, but they can also be rewarded for predicting the flow of popular opinion.

A less powerful option would be that the Equivocator can select himself at night 3x per game, which then allows him to select someone during discussion the following day as described above.

It already is a day action?


Lol I have no idea how I misread that so badly. I guess my suggestion is now to make its day usage only during discussion.
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:50 am

Brilliand wrote:Looks like I missed this the first time around.

Letting the Equivocator use his ability during the Judgement phase is a little too easy, imo. Making his ability a night ability with unlimited uses would make skill more relevant (and remove his roleblock/control/transport immunity, which I think is unnecessary), but xXbigboi69Xx may be right that that's too hard for most Town of Salem players.

I definitely like the idea of a day-Janitor, though.

I agree that using the ability during judgement is probably bad as it'll just be used in "Safe" scenarios. Though making it a night ability would probably be bad as it's a lot less reliable. I don't think this role had roleblock etc immunities?

ABadWord wrote:Very good idea. VFR is a bit to safe.

A Janitor and Equiv combo might feel cheap to go against is the only issue I could see for this role. Other then that I really can't find fault.

Sick job dude.

Thank you :D
I originally thought the idea was terrible since it got ignored the first time round. Janitor/Equiv combo is generally not that bad as they work in different fields and if Mafia aren't being proactive, it is likely incredibly weak. Proactive mafia are generally always better than reactive ones anyway so yep

cob709 wrote:Ooooo, a day time janitor.
A mafia role that has a day ability instead of night ability, I like it!
Though, I feel like this would have to replace the Janitor, as the 2 roles would essentially do the same thing, just at different times.

Janitor cleans roles from night kills, where Equivocator stops Town from getting the information they try to VFR for. For example. They aren't really conflicting abilities. If you think it's a bit too OP with all the cleans if they roll together, first of all Mafia would need to actively push for a specific lynch.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:40 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:I don't think this role had roleblock etc immunities?


Day actions can't be roleblocked, because no day-roleblocker exists. The same goes for controls and transports. So roles that rely solely on a day action are effectively roleblock/witch/transporter-immune.
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:49 am

Brilliand wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:I don't think this role had roleblock etc immunities?


Day actions can't be roleblocked, because no day-roleblocker exists. The same goes for controls and transports. So roles that rely solely on a day action are effectively roleblock/witch/transporter-immune.

Ah right, I feel stupid now lol.

One problem I have in my head though is that it's a tough role to use if it's a night action. And the use of the role in a sense to stop VFR isn't a thing anymore as Town can just VFR and lynch accordingly with little risk of that player being targeted by this role.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby Savagepeyton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:12 pm

The main problem with this role is what if the Jester is day-cleaned? Would town still get the notification that Jester was hung? Would Jester still guilt somebody the next night?
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:14 pm

Savagepeyton wrote:The main problem with this role is what if the Jester is day-cleaned? Would town still get the notification that Jester was hung? Would Jester still guilt somebody the next night?

Yeah, it doesn't day-roleblock. It will announce that the jester was lynched but it'll show as Cleaned in the GY.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
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Re: Equivocator (Mafia Deception)

Postby ABadWord » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:33 am

I know Janitor and Equiv wouldn't be gamebreaking but it wont feel good to have most people cleaned D1-4. Would confuse everyone (which is the point) but the question is, is it TO confusing, especially to new players.

I don't know but it would be nice to have the testing grounds test it (along with like 30 other roles).
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