Jester buff idea.

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Jester buff idea.

Postby TheAntagonisticKitty » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:18 am

The Jester can visit people at night now, but it doesn't do anything. The TI's will see that you visited someone and you will get killed by veterans who are on alert if you visit one. Also maybe the person who you visited may get a message telling them you were visited or that someone tried to kill you.

Playing Jester is kinda boring because you literally have nothing to do at night so I think this idea might make playing Jester more interesting. What do you guys think?
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby yuri3296 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:22 am

Well, it would be beneficial if you want to visit a jailor who claimed D1 and is probaly be looked after by a Lookout. If i was in charge here i would have added it!
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:27 pm

/Support
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:13 pm

Here's my problem with people changing Jester. It's whole existence is to fool town through words and claims into lynching them as well as not get killed at night.

A lot of people suggested giving Jester defense but that would literally get them lynched by default which kind of ruins the whole point of the role. This change however if you completely fake visit it kind of makes the easy role even easier. The only change Jester needs is an after-lynch ability and a newer goal to fit it into NE (or move it into NB)

/no support

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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:28 pm

But here's the problem, it's already extremely hard to win with, there isn't much for the jester to work with and it's super easy to see through so it has a low lynch rate when people are not stupid. And frankly, it can't be neutral benign if it has a killing ability.
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:30 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:But here's the problem, it's already extremely hard to win with, there isn't much for the jester to work with and it's super easy to see through so it has a low lynch rate when people are not stupid. And frankly, it can't be neutral benign if it has a killing ability.

That's the thing, it actually is fairly easy to win as. Just don't be transparent and vote guilty on the jailor or other stuff like that.

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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:46 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:But here's the problem, it's already extremely hard to win with, there isn't much for the jester to work with and it's super easy to see through so it has a low lynch rate when people are not stupid. And frankly, it can't be neutral benign if it has a killing ability.

That's the thing, it actually is fairly easy to win as. Just don't be transparent and vote guilty on the jailor or other stuff like that.


No it isn't. I use to be very good at jester but there aren't many strategies you can use anymore, people see through them unless super new or super dumb. I've claimed surv and don't get hung. I've pretended to be exe and don't get hung. Etc.
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby Brilliand » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:44 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:No it isn't. I use to be very good at jester but there aren't many strategies you can use anymore, people see through them unless super new or super dumb. I've claimed surv and don't get hung. I've pretended to be exe and don't get hung. Etc.


If a strategy consistently doesn't get you hung when you're Jester, try doing the exact same thing when you're evil.
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:09 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:No it isn't. I use to be very good at jester but there aren't many strategies you can use anymore, people see through them unless super new or super dumb. I've claimed surv and don't get hung. I've pretended to be exe and don't get hung. Etc.


If a strategy consistently doesn't get you hung when you're Jester, try doing the exact same thing when you're evil.


The weird thing is, it's like I have entirely different luck when I'm evil, lol.
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby TheAntagonisticKitty » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:17 pm

I do think Jest should be given defense, but only as an automatic defense on N1 exclusively, as it's literally impossible for the Jester to accomplish their goal until at least D2. I changed my mind about the thing I mentioned in the OP though. Now that's OP.
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby JakeTheSnake5963 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:01 pm

/nosupport

Although there have been games where I have been killed N1 as jester, its honestly something that I just can accept as unlucky and that I need to do better next time. This 'better' I have found is fake vet baiting D1 to keep the mafia off of me for the night (which is what many smart players tend to do). The only change that I could borderline support would be to lose less elo if you die N1 (I understand that this would be a complex change), but even N1 death is often preventable if you play your D1 correctly. Granting jester defense just counteracts much of what the jester stands for: deceiving town through their words, not because they're immune. If the jester acts too townie, it will be killed by the mafia/NK. If it looks too suspicious, it will be shot/exed. Jester should not be protected from attacks because if you're getting attacked as jester, you're not playing the role correctly. A skillful jester knows when to and how to 'out themselves' as scum so they are lynched accordingly. Defense would allow many unskilled jesters to just pick up an easy win when they would have died and lost otherwise.
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Re: Jester buff idea.

Postby Soulshade55r » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:49 am

JakeTheSnake5963 wrote:/nosupport

Although there have been games where I have been killed N1 as jester, its honestly something that I just can accept as unlucky and that I need to do better next time. This 'better' I have found is fake vet baiting D1 to keep the mafia off of me for the night (which is what many smart players tend to do). The only change that I could borderline support would be to lose less elo if you die N1 (I understand that this would be a complex change), but even N1 death is often preventable if you play your D1 correctly. Granting jester defense just counteracts much of what the jester stands for: deceiving town through their words, not because they're immune. If the jester acts too townie, it will be killed by the mafia/NK. If it looks too suspicious, it will be shot/exed. Jester should not be protected from attacks because if you're getting attacked as jester, you're not playing the role correctly. A skillful jester knows when to and how to 'out themselves' as scum so they are lynched accordingly. Defense would allow many unskilled jesters to just pick up an easy win when they would have died and lost otherwise.


That's why I dislike the idea of removing day 1 the entire jailor meta can be fixed without removing day 1. (just makes n1 random).

anyway Jester visiting but doing nothing, imo I don't really mind that much jester can be a bit of a role that can just get screwed over by invests but I'd mainly think investigator/sheriff/spy would be the ones screwing over jester most of the time, I'm not going to suggest self frame either.
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