Small Jester Buff

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Small Jester Buff

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:14 pm

Jester's are a fun role to play and claiming them as evil at a good spot in the game could be crucial to win a game. My suggestion is to make Jester slightly more of a Neutral Evil role by having any Town role that kills this role at night will commit suicide out of guilt, this includes Jailor and Vigilante (I believe they're the only town roles that can actually kill a non-visiting role anyway).

Why would this benefit them? This not only benefits them but also evil roles that claim Jester since the whole concept of "Jailor, jail and exe this because of possible jester" would be a little more risky and could be used as a one night buffer for evils or a way to weaken Jailor/TK possibly. Of course being lynched is still their goal so being killed at night this way would still incur a loss.

Thoughts and opinions?
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:18 pm

This idea would make it impossible for Town to actually get rid of a known Jester (outside of the off chance that he gets turned into a Vampire). Also, making the Town more afraid of Jesters will also make it more annoying to kill any evil role, because Towns seem to have an annoying tendency to assume any evil player might be Jester.
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:21 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:This idea would make it impossible for Town to actually get rid of a known Jester (outside of the off chance that he gets turned into a Vampire). Also, making the Town more afraid of Jesters will also make it more annoying to kill any evil role, because Towns seem to have an annoying tendency to assume any evil player might be Jester.

Yeah, after posting this I was thinking Jester should solely be a mind game kind of role so I don't even want my own suggested added lol
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby BlastingOff » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:18 pm

I think in order to make Jester more Neutral Evil, it must have abilities that direclty harm Town and only Town

One suggestion that I have (probs already suggested in the past) is to prevent all Town roles from using their night abilities the following night (and cancel Jailror's jailing) should Jester be lynched. Revealed Jailor dies for sure, unless Mafia is really bad, TIs can't check you, TKs can't kill and Retri/Trans can't do whatever they do.

I think the way Jester currently is, it's more of a Neutral Benign role, since it's not uncommon to actually strike deals with Jesters to haunt susp players, same way you'd strike deals with a Survivor or Amnesiac to side with you
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby Safetytheflamewolf » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:33 am

I think a nice way to buff the Jester is to have it so that Jesters can visit others during the night. Doing so will have that player use their ability on the Jester (will not work on RB Immune Roles.) If that role is a killing role (not including Vet or Jailor) then the Killing Role will die the next night over killing the Jester.

Example: Jester visits Vigilante N1 and gets killed by him as a result. During N2 the Vigilante will die from guilt over killing the Jester.
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:52 pm

Yeah I don't really like this town can't kill jester that's a no from me.

I really don't even like jester or exe being "neutral evil" they are "neutral Benign" (Jester is super NB)
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby azurillia » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:16 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:Yeah I don't really like this town can't kill jester that's a no from me.

I really don't even like jester or exe being "neutral evil" they are "neutral Benign" (Jester is super NB)


Jester must be NC

Executioner is NE

NB is "passive" to everyone, most likely to Town.

NC is NK without killing (or weirdo killings like vamp bite, pirate pirating and pestilence)

NE only harms Town. Witch and Executioner are perfect examples. No, Jester is super NC. But it is counted as NE since it gets more votes from Town actually and there is a higher change that they will haunt a Townie sooooooo
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby Brilliand » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:56 pm

azurillia wrote:NC is NK without killing (or weirdo killings like vamp bite, pirate pirating and pestilence)


NC is the catchall category, for things that don't fit anywhere else... such as Pirate, the Neutral Benign that kills.

IMO Vampire and Pestilence don't truly belong in NC; Vampire is its own faction (more like the Mafia than anything), while Pestilence meets the basic requirements to be a Neutral Killing.
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:25 pm

Brilliand wrote:
azurillia wrote:NC is NK without killing (or weirdo killings like vamp bite, pirate pirating and pestilence)


NC is the catchall category, for things that don't fit anywhere else... such as Pirate, the Neutral Benign that kills.

IMO Vampire and Pestilence don't truly belong in NC; Vampire is its own faction (more like the Mafia than anything), while Pestilence meets the basic requirements to be a Neutral Killing.


I agree. Imagine Pestilence in ranked though, lol
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:30 pm

azurillia wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:Yeah I don't really like this town can't kill jester that's a no from me.

I really don't even like jester or exe being "neutral evil" they are "neutral Benign" (Jester is super NB)


Jester must be NC

Executioner is NE

NB is "passive" to everyone, most likely to Town.

NC is NK without killing (or weirdo killings like vamp bite, pirate pirating and pestilence)

NE only harms Town. Witch and Executioner are perfect examples. No, Jester is super NC. But it is counted as NE since it gets more votes from Town actually and there is a higher change that they will haunt a Townie sooooooo


I 100% disagree that Jester is an NC.
Neutral Evil is a faction solely against Town, because of this Jester does not fit within this alignment. Neutral Benign pretty much means they 'could' win with any faction, at least that's what it means to me and that's where Jester fits. Neutral Chaos is for miscellaneous type roles and Jester fits within a category so that's a no from me.
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby Brilliand » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:29 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:I 100% disagree that Jester is an NC.
Neutral Evil is a faction solely against Town, because of this Jester does not fit within this alignment. Neutral Benign pretty much means they 'could' win with any faction, at least that's what it means to me and that's where Jester fits. Neutral Chaos is for miscellaneous type roles and Jester fits within a category so that's a no from me.


I think Jester has to go in Neutral Chaos, by my previous reasoning. I stated that Pirate belongs in NC because it's "the Neutral benign that kills". You're arguing that Jester is a Neutral Benign... and that would fit, except: Jester kills.

I don't think any role with a killing ability can fit in Neutral Benign.
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Re: Small Jester Buff

Postby Gooose26 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:39 am

The base concept of Jester simply doesn't function as a Neutral Evil. Killing 1 member of town is not near enough to support the evil factions when taking that NE slot, but let's not even look at power, and let's look solely at the balance of the role. More specifically, look at the goal. Does the goal strike you as part of a group or as a lone member? If it wants to be NE, it has to have a win condition like the Witch, where it contributes to the evils like a united faction. However, the Jester is out for himself. He wants to be lynched by any means necessary, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that is the very definition of Neutral Benign.

If you're looking for a great Jester fix, look here.
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