possible Serial Killer buffs

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Which rework is best?

Rework 1
2
33%
Rework 2
0
No votes
Rework 3
1
17%
Serial killer doesn’t need a buff.
2
33%
Serial killer needs a different buff.
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby ZackTheMaf666 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:08 am

Let me just preface this by saying something I think a lot of us agree with: Serial Killer needs a buff. It has for a long time. However, I don’t know what kind of rework it needs. So... I’ll just put all my ideas here.




Rework 1:



Role Name: Serial Killer


Role Alignment: Neutral (killing)


Abilities:
kill someone each night.
If roleblocked, kill roleblocker
When killing a roleblocker, destroy their will

Attributes:
Attack: basic
Defense: basic

Notifications:
you were attacked and killed by a serial killer
____ died. Their role was serial killer
____ was killed by a serial killer
You were attacked and healed
You were attacked but your defense protected you
____ had a will, but it was in pieces

Goal:
Kill all who would oppose you

Win Conditions:
Win with serial killers and survivors
Kill all other factions
Spare anyone esle

Special Attributes:
None

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - your target is suspicious
Investigator - doctor, disguiser, serial killer / doctor, disguiser, serial killer, potion master
Consigliere - Serial killer





Rework 2:



Role Name: Serial Killer


Role Alignment: Neutral (killing)


Abilities:
kill someone each night.
If roleblocked, kill roleblocker

Attributes:
Attack: powerful
Defense: basic

Notifications:
you were attacked and killed by a serial killer
____ died. Their role was serial killer
____ was killed by a serial killer
You were attacked and healed
You were attacked but your defense protected you

Goal:
Kill all who would oppose you

Win Conditions:
Win with serial killers and survivors
Kill all other factions
Spare anyone esle

Special Attributes:
None

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - your target is suspicious
Investigator - doctor, disguiser, serial killer / doctor, disguiser, serial killer, potion master
Consigliere - Serial killer


Rework 3:



Role Name: Serial Killer


Role Alignment: Neutral (killing)


Abilities:
Seem normal until start attacking (if you don’t attack night 1, you will have detection immunity. If you don’t attack until night 5, nights 1-4 you will have detection immunity. If you attack night 3, but not on night 4, you will not have detection immunity on night 4)
When you kill your first person, you become suspicious
kill someone each night.
When roleblocked, kill roleblocker

Attributes:
Attack: basic
Defense: basic

Notifications:
you were attacked and killed by a serial killer
____ died. Their role was serial killer
____ was killed by a serial killer
You were attacked and healed
You were attacked but your defense protected you
You decided to act normal for tonight

Goal:
Kill all who would oppose you

Win Conditions:
Win with serial killers and survivors
Kill all other factions
Spare anyone esle

Special Attributes:
None

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - your target is innocent / your target is suspicious
Investigator - medium, janitor, retributionist / doctor, disguiser, serial killer (and their coven counterparts)
Consigliere - Serial killer



P.S.
When I made rework 2 and 3, I copied the rework 1 and modified it. If there is a mistake that says something about destroying wills, please tell me about it and I will get to it when I can
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby JacksonVirgo » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:46 am

So I will try and condense what you wrote and let me know if I am wrong.

1. Destroy the wills of any roleblockers.
2. Powerful attack
3. Detection immunity until first attack.

For the first point, I kind of really like it as a way to remove one of SK's main weaknesses, the tarnation Escort. Second point is also good, makes it stronger than just a solo Godfather essentially. Third is also a good addition, if nothing else appears I'd personally like all of these to be added.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby StrahmDude » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:58 pm

I like the first and third abilities. It makes it a bit more fun. Other NKs need love as well though.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby azurillia » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:00 am

Why the hell you buff the most naive and balanced role in game? SK is a-ight
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby ScratchCat » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:12 am

ALL OF EM
They said my signature was too long, so now it's this, BTW I YEET ALL SIDESTEPPERS
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby Brilliand » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:10 pm

Giving the SK a Powerful attack defeats the purpose of giving the Godfather defense. The Godfather's defense is there specifically to make sure the SK doesn't randomly kill him.

Detection immunity makes the SK more like a Godfather, which isn't exactly nice, plus making it "until first attack" encourages the SK to refrain from killing... which isn't good.

Destroying wills is probably the best bet. The NK deserves to have some deception abilities like the Mafia has (although there's only so much room to add such things before major game features become nullified).
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby Soulshade55r » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:34 pm

azurillia wrote:Why the hell you buff the most naive and balanced role in game? SK is a-ight



Sk isn't balanced or anything but it's a lot better then what the hell we got with Arso and werewolf
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby PolyesterHomes » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:51 am

I think that the first and third reworks should both be implemented. The second rework seems to make it a bit too screwy with how it compares to Arsonist and Werewolf.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby azurillia » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:09 am

PolyesterHomes wrote:I think that the first and third reworks should both be implemented. The second rework seems to make it a bit too screwy with how it compares to Arsonist and Werewolf.


First rework is a nerf

Sk doesn't need a nerf
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby PolyesterHomes » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:09 am

azurillia wrote:
PolyesterHomes wrote:I think that the first and third reworks should both be implemented. The second rework seems to make it a bit too screwy with how it compares to Arsonist and Werewolf.


First rework is a nerf

Sk doesn't need a nerf


How is the first rework a nerf?
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby azurillia » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:13 am

PolyesterHomes wrote:
azurillia wrote:
PolyesterHomes wrote:I think that the first and third reworks should both be implemented. The second rework seems to make it a bit too screwy with how it compares to Arsonist and Werewolf.


First rework is a nerf

Sk doesn't need a nerf


How is the first rework a nerf?


If you destroy a roleblocker's will by directly attacking them, you can haunt two birds with one stone

It is a gameplay tactic and shouldn't get removed, SK is fine rite now. It is very easy to detect a roleblocker anyway
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby PolyesterHomes » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:15 am

azurillia wrote:
PolyesterHomes wrote:
azurillia wrote:
PolyesterHomes wrote:I think that the first and third reworks should both be implemented. The second rework seems to make it a bit too screwy with how it compares to Arsonist and Werewolf.


First rework is a nerf

Sk doesn't need a nerf


How is the first rework a nerf?


If you destroy a roleblocker's will by directly attacking them, you can haunt two birds with one stone

It is a gameplay tactic and shouldn't get removed, SK is fine rite now. It is very easy to detect a roleblocker anyway

I don't see how thats a nerf to Serial Killer.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby azurillia » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:18 am

PolyesterHomes wrote:
azurillia wrote:
PolyesterHomes wrote:"long quotes"
I don't see how thats a nerf to Serial Killer.

*facepalm*
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby PolyesterHomes » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:32 pm

azurillia wrote:
PolyesterHomes wrote:
azurillia wrote:
PolyesterHomes wrote:"long quotes"
I don't see how thats a nerf to Serial Killer.

*facepalm*

Letting a SK get outed because a Escort visited them and wrote it in their will is bad for the SK. Preventing that from happening is a buff. Your logic simply doesn't make sense.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby Brilliand » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:00 pm

I think the argument there is "confirming to Town that the escort in fact visited the SK, and wasn't attacked directly, is a nerf to the SK" (even if the Town don't necessarily know who the SK is from it).

Which makes sense, and is a reason the SK should perhaps also erase the wills of people he attacks directly. However, that comes close to removing the town's power of "wills" entirely, which is a bit much.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby PolyesterHomes » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:07 pm

Brilliand wrote:I think the argument there is "confirming to Town that the escort in fact visited the SK, and wasn't attacked directly, is a nerf to the SK" (even if the Town don't necessarily know who the SK is from it).

Which makes sense, and is a reason the SK should perhaps also erase the wills of people he attacks directly. However, that comes close to removing the town's power of "wills" entirely, which is a bit much.


Sure, in that extremely specific circumstance, the SK is negatively effected by the wills destruction. However, the alternative to such an affair is the SK being outed as a result of the Escort noting who they visited. The destruction of the will protects the SK from being outed by his own ability, which is a buff in the majority of cases.

Unless the player was a Consort and a Spy was in play, or the Lookout was looking at who the Escort was targeting the night they died, the confirmation doesn't really come into effect. Even if it does, all it means is that the person the Escort/Consort visited is confirmed not SK. The player in question could still be scum.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby EgyptFalcon » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:45 pm

Brilliand wrote:I think the argument there is "confirming to Town that the escort in fact visited the SK, and wasn't attacked directly, is a nerf to the SK" (even if the Town don't necessarily know who the SK is from it).

Which makes sense, and is a reason the SK should perhaps also erase the wills of people he attacks directly. However, that comes close to removing the town's power of "wills" entirely, which is a bit much.



But the rework is that they destroy the wills of any roleblocker... they don't have to be roleblocked to destroy the will.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby Brilliand » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:15 pm

EgyptFalcon wrote:
Brilliand wrote:I think the argument there is "confirming to Town that the escort in fact visited the SK, and wasn't attacked directly, is a nerf to the SK" (even if the Town don't necessarily know who the SK is from it).

Which makes sense, and is a reason the SK should perhaps also erase the wills of people he attacks directly. However, that comes close to removing the town's power of "wills" entirely, which is a bit much.



But the rework is that they destroy the wills of any roleblocker... they don't have to be roleblocked to destroy the will.


Is it? I'm not entirely sure which way the OP has it; I'll just agree that it should work as you describe.
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby azurillia » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:07 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:
azurillia wrote:Why the hell you buff the most naive and balanced role in game? SK is a-ight



Sk isn't balanced or anything but it's a lot better then what the hell we got with Arso and werewolf


Yeah SK kinda helps Maf in early game but in fact they are balanced

@Brilliand SK's often predict who is Escort or Jailor is and usually frame people by attacking them. Do not remove this. It is a mechanic for SK. Some roles need a drawback or a playstyle so they can hang around by using their mind
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Re: possible Serial Killer buffs

Postby EgyptFalcon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:04 pm

azurillia wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:
azurillia wrote:Why the hell you buff the most naive and balanced role in game? SK is a-ight



Sk isn't balanced or anything but it's a lot better then what the hell we got with Arso and werewolf


Yeah SK kinda helps Maf in early game but in fact they are balanced

@Brilliand SK's often predict who is Escort or Jailor is and usually frame people by attacking them. Do not remove this. It is a mechanic for SK. Some roles need a drawback or a playstyle so they can hang around by using their mind


No. Losing D2 because you got roleblocked or jailed N1 is not fun. And it happens way to often to say it shouldn't be removed.
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