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Arso buff

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:14 pm
by StrahmDude
An arsonist is obviously weak in the killing department, so why not make it so their douses can't be blocked, even by a jailor jailing a target? They are literally just spraying a house, right? Finally, give them spy results. Let them know if someone was transported or jailed and the like. This gives them fake claim ability. This doesn't make up the killing deficit, but it should make the arso more powerful and accurate since not even transporters can stop it's doused.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:07 pm
by Brilliand
Thematically, I could also see the Arsonist having Transporter immunity. They don't douse the person, they douse the house.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:16 am
by azurillia
Brilliand wrote:Thematically, I could also see the Arsonist having Transporter immunity. They don't douse the person, they douse the house.


while agreeing with that; the arso is so weak that even a role in an evil team works functionally better than arsonist right now

deliver the hex master's current abilities to arsonist, then rework the hex master. that's it. they do not have enough time to douse everyone already so removing the "early ignite" ability shouldn't be a drawback

actually all of Town Power roles should get reworked or nerfed but even in that case they can be detected easily. SK is ok compared to other balanced roles like escort, sheriff, doctor etc

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:04 am
by Soulshade55r
Arso shouldn't have spy results??

I like the other changes at least

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:28 am
by Brilliand
azurillia wrote:deliver the hex master's current abilities to arsonist, then rework the hex master. that's it. they do not have enough time to douse everyone already so removing the "early ignite" ability shouldn't be a drawback


Actually, the arsonist benefits from igniting when they still have 1 person undoused, sometimes 2 or even 3 if there's a Survivor involved. Early ignites are useful if you can predict that certain people will side with you or die on their own.

That one time I played Coven and got a Hex Master win, I had to kill my own Guardian Angel. Arsonist doesn't have to do that.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:49 am
by azurillia
Brilliand wrote:
azurillia wrote:That one time I played Coven and got a Hex Master win, I had to kill my own Guardian Angel. Arsonist doesn't have to do that.


If this is the thing you are worried about, then check GA's abilities again to understand that drawback.

Early ignites actually only helps to the evil faction which is something stupid cuz in an arsonist game mafia's win rate increases due to bg/gf/arso result change + town population is higher, then the victims of early ignie would be from this group

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:26 pm
by Brilliand
azurillia wrote:
Brilliand wrote:That one time I played Coven and got a Hex Master win, I had to kill my own Guardian Angel. Arsonist doesn't have to do that.


If this is the thing you are worried about, then check GA's abilities again to understand that drawback.


Huh? Yes, I'm aware my GA won while dead.

But instead of being able to kill most of the people who wouldn't vote with me and then win by lynching, I had to spend the extra night to hex every single person who wasn't literally in my faction. The Arsonist, on the other hand, can afford to douse only most people, then ignite leaving the game in a 1v1v1 between Arsonist/Town/Executioner. That's an advantage over the Hex Master.

(Not to mention, if they're playing non-coven with a Witch, the Arsonist needs to be able to show the Witch that she isn't doused and doesn't need to be.)

Early igniting is beneficial sometimes.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:03 pm
by StrahmDude
The idea of the spy results is it takes awhile for the arso to douse a house, so they would see what happens there. Remember that NK are by themselves, they need info.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:13 am
by azurillia
Brilliand wrote:
azurillia wrote:
Brilliand wrote:That one time I played Coven and got a Hex Master win, I had to kill my own Guardian Angel. Arsonist doesn't have to do that.


If this is the thing you are worried about, then check GA's abilities again to understand that drawback.


Huh? Yes, I'm aware my GA won while dead.

But instead of being able to kill most of the people who wouldn't vote with me and then win by lynching, I had to spend the extra night to hex every single person who wasn't literally in my faction. The Arsonist, on the other hand, can afford to douse only most people, then ignite leaving the game in a 1v1v1 between Arsonist/Town/Executioner. That's an advantage over the Hex Master.

(Not to mention, if they're playing non-coven with a Witch, the Arsonist needs to be able to show the Witch that she isn't doused and doesn't need to be.)

Early igniting is beneficial sometimes.


They can douse and ignite at the same time but only if they already have doused at least 3 people.
How about this? At this case Arsonist must be unique + They can't douse the same person twice.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:09 pm
by Brilliand
azurillia wrote:They can douse and ignite at the same time but only if they already have doused at least 3 people.
How about this? At this case Arsonist must be unique + They can't douse the same person twice.


I dunno, maybe? Encouraging the Arsonist to ignite every 3 nights doesn't seem ideal to me, nor does making the Arsonist unique.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:14 am
by azurillia
Brilliand wrote:
azurillia wrote:They can douse and ignite at the same time but only if they already have doused at least 3 people.
How about this? At this case Arsonist must be unique + They can't douse the same person twice.


I dunno, maybe? Encouraging the Arsonist to ignite every 3 nights doesn't seem ideal to me, nor does making the Arsonist unique.


Well at N3 they would ignite and douse at the same time. Making them unique means that Double Arsonists WILL NOT create 6 death made by incineration.

*All Any Game Mode*
Two Arsonists
N1: Double Douse
N2: Double Douse again
N3: Both of them douses again, "uhhh what happens if I ignite, shall I introduce myself to other arsos xd"
D4: 6 Deaths from incineration.

I got 3 wins with Arso according to Steam and two of them are gained while I was dead. Multiple Arsonists are unbalanced and this buff makes them Neutral Killer Pestilence.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:23 am
by JacksonVirgo
Balancing should affect ranked more than other rolelists imo and two arsos is impossible, so yep

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:35 pm
by StrahmDude
If we could at least get a cleaning effect and an unblockable effect it would be pretty good.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:11 pm
by azurillia
By the way can I ask why do you bother NK's abilities right now while Town roles are absurdly powerful right now? Yeah arso sucks but it can be buffed easily and there is ton of ideas in this forum.

By the way the only bad thing about arso is their KPN. If they play well they always caught at D5 or D6 somehow; However giving them the ability to ignite and douse at the same time would be nice cuz with this KPN increases to 1

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:58 am
by StrahmDude
I prefer the route of buffing everything instead of nerfing everything. It makes the game more fun in my opinion.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:47 am
by JacksonVirgo
StrahmDude wrote:I prefer the route of buffing everything instead of nerfing everything. It makes the game more fun in my opinion.

Yep I agree, if x role is somebody's favorite and it gets nerfed. It kind of ruins it for people.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:04 pm
by WrldOfGyns
Just make Arso roleblock immune

Also, i thought of an idea
When you douse someone, and that target dies, you douse the killer instead.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:15 pm
by MysticMismagius
WrldOfGyns wrote:Also, i thought of an idea
When you douse someone, and that target dies, you douse the killer instead.
With the douse tracker that shows up in Unity, this would tell you who the killer is. Whether or not this is a good thing is up to you, but it’s worth noting.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:39 pm
by JacksonVirgo
WrldOfGyns wrote:Just make Arso roleblock immune

Also, i thought of an idea
When you douse someone, and that target dies, you douse the killer instead.

Roleblock immunity should only be given to roles that could create logical paradoxes, so no. Dousing roleblockers is fine as well as being able to ignite even while being rbed too is fine. Just being able to douse someone else when being rbed is dumb.

Regarding the second part, it's an aight idea.
MysticMismagius wrote:
WrldOfGyns wrote:Also, i thought of an idea
When you douse someone, and that target dies, you douse the killer instead.
With the douse tracker that shows up in Unity, this would tell you who the killer is. Whether or not this is a good thing is up to you, but it’s worth noting.

That isn't how it works anyway so it isn't an issue. Same thing with Transporter transing who you douse, it marks whoever you tried to douse, not who is actually doused.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:46 pm
by StrahmDude
At the very least arso shouldn't be blocked by jailor or transporter when dousing.

Re: Arso buff

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:46 pm
by JacksonVirgo
StrahmDude wrote:At the very least arso shouldn't be blocked by jailor or transporter when dousing.

I can agree to that